Do All AR - 16”?

Tim

Tim

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I've often mentioned that I aspire to be the 'man with 1 gun' and have been TRYING to do that for the last couple years. Aside from flirting with a CZ Bren MS2, I've pretty much stuck with my 11.5" AR for everything. I've done reasonably well with it for 3G and Run-n-Gun. It works really well for those events where distances rarely exceed ~300 and I'm prioritizing maneuverability. However, I’m starting to shoot more DMR type matches (6-700yds) in addition to 3-Gun and Run n Gun.

- 3G & Run-n-Gun I prioritize weight and compactness so I've been shooting the 11.5" for a while here. I've won stages with this setup and it's bombproof reliable.
- DMR prioritizes accuracy, stability on barricades and adaptability for bags, bipods, etc. A longer hand guard helps quite a bit. I've been using a heavy barreled 18" with hefty PRS stock and 3-15 optic.
- Night Ops...lights, lasers, red dot instead of LPVO. This one needs to be a dedicated platform, so not really a consideration here.

I'm thinking of switching things up and using a 16" (mid gas) carbine. It's not the ideal choice for anything I do, but it seems to be one that will fill the needs for each discipline the closest. That would allow me to focus on 1 platform for everything. If it weren't for the DMR stuff, I'd just stick with the shorty.

Mostly I'm thinking of switching it up because of my dismal performance last weekend after having not shot the AR for a while. I've been playing with the CZ and DMR rifle while ignoring the one I've designated for events.

Anyway, just rambling.
 
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The 16-in mid-length recce is supposed to be the combination of all perfection in the AR platform, good enough for CQB, and can still be appointed nicely for engagements to 700 yards.

As Shrek McPhee and PatMac say, "ain't nothing you can't do with it.". But I do totally understand personal preferences with regard to specialization.
 
Sure, why not? You'll have no problems being supersonic still at 700 yards, and should be able to push something like a 77gr SMK to decent accuracy at those distances with a good 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel.
 
I would say you can achieve your goal easily by centering the build around a decent quality 16" H-Bar style barrel...

babl556017m.jpg


When Woody ran his DMR matches down in Moncure, some 3rd S/F guys using 16" guns put the hurt on everyone else during some of those matches. Some ran EOtecs on their rifles and made regular hits to 650 yards
 
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I'm trying to shoot this build more. I've been flip-flopping on glass a little before scooping up this 2.5-10 on the forums here.

So far really enjoying the build. The 16" FN barrel has been super accurate and easy enough to take to 600 yards (longest I can get in my area).

I do think the classic 16" AR excels as a general do it all and it's neat seeing them catch on again after years of the 11.5/12.5 hypetrain.

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I have spent time thinking about the same thing. I have chosen to go with 2 guns. My main gun will be a 11.5 with suppressor, LPVO, I’m good to 500 yards. If I plan to shooting long ranges, I have a 20 inch, with a 4x14, I can make good out to 700 yards with this one.
 
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Cole_McD said:
I'm trying to shoot this build more. I've been flip-flopping on glass a little before scooping up this 2.5-10 on the forums here.

So far really enjoying the build. The 16" FN barrel has been super accurate and easy enough to take to 600 yards (longest I can get in my area).

I do think the classic 16" AR excels as a general do it all and it's neat seeing them catch on again after years of the 11.5/12.5 hypetrain.

View attachment 675773
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Nice Rig!!
 
I should have mentioned that I already have a quality 16" rifle in the safe. Shaw barrel, Geisselle trigger, etc. It just hasn't gotten any range time because I was using what I perceived to be my "1 Gun". My requirements for that "1" have changed, so this one is going to get a shot.
 
I've really enjoyed my latest 3 gun build. Nothing really special about it. 16" Criterion barrel under a 15" R One. Viper 1-6. SA adjustable gas block. Milspec BCG, carbine buffer.

It will do everything out to the end of VOD. The weight is Goldilocks. I don't like an overly light rifle, this one is nice and stable on long shots but not burdensome at all.

I'm currently toying with a lightweight BCG and buffer with a reduced spring, but it isn't a huge improvement, just incremental. The brake and adjustable gas seems to do the majority of the work here.

Maneuverability during a 3 gun match? How long is that shotgun anyway?

During a run and gun I could see the length being an issue, but it's at the end of a very long list of things that we can do to improve times.
 
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Tim said:
I've often mentioned that I aspire to be the 'man with 1 gun' and have been TRYING to do that for the last couple years.
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Not being a smart ass here, but in this case I have to ask... 'why'? I don't think it's a stretch to say that you put enough rounds down range in a variety of ways such that you have the skill to take advantage of different weapons for different tasks. If you thought you needed a titanium firing pin to be competitive I would know you were full of it, but the different tools for the different jobs you're listing isn't all that crazy.
 
Jayne said:
you put enough rounds down range
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I should be a LOT better than I am given this statement.

So, not dismissing your thoughts at all. It’s just as likely that I need to better focus my training vs. reducing the variation in equipment.

Either way, this is a “me” issue. It’s a poor carpenter who blames his tools, right?
 
Tim said:
So, not dismissing your thoughts at all. It’s just as likely that I need to better focus my training vs. reducing the variation in equipment.
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That wasn't my point, but it's a valid one. Right tool right job and just run it. If you suddenly started shooting 1000 yard competition you (probably) wouldn't try to foist that duty onto your existing AR just to keep the gear count 1.

Tim said:
Either way, this is a “me” issue. It’s a poor carpenter who blames his tools, right?
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You could try my approach. Run a cheap POS. If you fail, people blame the gun. If you smoke them, they just say nothing (I mean, who wants to admit that someone beat them with 'skills' and not the right barrel profile?). I'll never put in the work to get to A class in USPSA so I'll just run the same clapped G34 and serpa with the button broken out of it forever. Those that know, know I'm no threat. Those that judge by gear... I can still embarrass some sometimes and that's really what it's all about. :)
 
Jayne said:
Run a cheap POS. If you fail, people blame the gun.
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You don’t even know how true this is!

My 11.5” is a stock off-the-shelf PSA upper. Albeit with a premium optic. Riding on a lower I slapped together. No fancy parts, just a lot of time on the trigger.
 
I think @Jayne sums it up well. As long as I can remember. I’ve heard beware of the guy with just one gun, cause he knows how to use it.

In my mind, this can be attributed to many poor country people who had to hunt to feed their families. Most of the one gun people feeding their families, chose shotguns. Or at least in my family, that was the gun of choice when you could only afford one.

You could hunt every type of game and still protect the family with a shotgun. While you can certainly take every type of game with shotgun. It doesn’t mean there isn’t a better choice in a given situation. Give yourself every advantage possible and select the best tool for the job.
 
I am a man with one motorcycle. I ride it pretty well. In fact, it's my second one of the exact same year and model and I think I have well north of 80,000 miles on them. So I know them well, and can perform well with them.

But as soon as I hit those numbers I am getting ten more bikes at least including one of these:

Not sure if you get my point: but it's along the lines of what Joe is saying: the guy with one gun is one poor proletariat bastard. Dude must be North Korean or something. If our one-gun-wonder had a choice, he'd have a bunch of guns to go with his new Ducati.
 
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So, here's the solution for a capitalist pig:

Intermediate gas length 16" barrel, which you likely do not have. Cut a pound or two off the 18" and have a soft gas system, too. It's all the rage!

www.stretchprecision.com

STRETCH 16 Phantom AR15 Barrel (Elite Red)

The STRETCH 16 Phantom Precision AR15 Barrel is extremely accurate and soft shooting due to its hand lapped bore and intermediate or stretched gas system.
www.stretchprecision.com www.stretchprecision.com

www.odinworks.com

223 Wylde 16.1'' Intermediate Barrel | Shop Now

223 Wylde 16.1' Intermediate barrel. 1:8 Twist, made from 416R stainless steel, hand lapped.
www.odinworks.com
 
So question - how would you set up this rifle as your do-all gun and if you did so and made it your do-all rifle will it still be effective for the purposes you want?

How far are you willing to stray from "ideal" in order to have 1 do all setup? The 16" barrel can serve in either capacity well enough, but all the other equipment - optics, bipod, etc seem to be on the opposite ends of what you want.

Because I doubt you want to put your heavy DMR 3-15 optic on your run-n-gun rifle. Would you go with a 2-10 and be a bit heavy and overkill for a run-n-gun and maybe not enough for your DMR matches?

Would you prefer to have 2 guns with a lot of identical features (trigger, light setup and position, grip, etc) so all those things are the same for each and transition easily but then be different where it counts (optic, barrel length, bipod, etc)
 
Hashknife said:
When Woody ran his DMR matches down in Moncure, some 3rd S/F guys using 16" guns put the hurt on everyone else during some of those matches. Some ran EOtecs on their rifles and made regular hits to 650 yards
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Me at Ft. Bragg shooting with the guys on 3113, their gun, at 500 yards. And if I can do it, anyone can.

CM Bragg 4.jpg
 
@Tim as you know it all depends on your goal. To win points in games requires both the right skills and the right equipment, so if that’s your goal then train and get the best equipment for each game. OTOH, if you want to get to be as good as you can with minimal gear, don’t worry about points, pick a platform that’s flexible, and figure out how to train to be the best guy without specialized equipment.
 
Jayne said:
Those that know, know I'm no threat. Those that judge by gear... I can still embarrass some sometimes and that's really what it's all about. :)
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Well I resemble that remark. But I also have nice gear. It is offset by the fact that I look like cover instead of concealment, wear khaki pants and a collared shirt to matches, and distribute snacks. But fun is being had every time.
 
Studentofthegun said:
Well I resemble that remark. But I also have nice gear. It is offset by the fact that I look like cover instead of concealment, wear khaki pants and a collared shirt to matches, and distribute snacks. But fun is being had every time.
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Jayne said:
Wait, your squad has snacks? Where is the RO? I want to change squads.
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And ice cream sandwiches after the match!
 
Jayne said:
Damn, I'm hanging with the wrong crowd. Best we get is slivers from taking apart shot-up target stands.
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They may let you scurry around and pick up dirty brass..... if you are real lucky.
 
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