I like it, You kind of paid him for the right to bust his nuts. Seems fair to me. His reaction may have been different without the free meal. Who knows?
Dog shot by police officer
- Thread starter Cowboy
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I like it, You kind of paid him for the right to bust his nuts. Seems fair to me. His reaction may have been different without the free meal. Who knows?
Should the homeowner have better management skills for her dogs? Sure, an unruly dog can be hurt by many things - other dogs, animals, cars... poor scared police officer who can easily be offended by an unarmed black child, a dog, a scary and crawling person. I should say that the world is a damn scary thing for an ordinary police officer.
Is it a homeowner's fault and responsibility? Yes, anything happens with us is our responsibility?
Was the situation life-threatening? As a person who has dogs for 20 years, I would say definitely no. These dogs did NOT charge. So, while I accept the fact that the shot was justified legally, a police officer has to have more situation management skills to do not use deadly force when it is not actually required, at least in order to be entitled to have more rights than an ordinary person and to be respected as someone who "serves and protects". Instead, he completely "delegated" the situation management to the homeowner who definitely didn't have the skills and ability for this.
I personally saw another trigger happy "I say you obey" kind of officer I have no respect and consider them way more as a part of the problem than "thin blue line". This is a disaster waiting to happen, he just hasn't met his human prey yet.
Is it a homeowner's fault and responsibility? Yes, anything happens with us is our responsibility?
Was the situation life-threatening? As a person who has dogs for 20 years, I would say definitely no. These dogs did NOT charge. So, while I accept the fact that the shot was justified legally, a police officer has to have more situation management skills to do not use deadly force when it is not actually required, at least in order to be entitled to have more rights than an ordinary person and to be respected as someone who "serves and protects". Instead, he completely "delegated" the situation management to the homeowner who definitely didn't have the skills and ability for this.
I personally saw another trigger happy "I say you obey" kind of officer I have no respect and consider them way more as a part of the problem than "thin blue line". This is a disaster waiting to happen, he just hasn't met his human prey yet.
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I was not able to see from the video whether the second dog charged for not.
Unfortunately, he didn't get there because he didn't have anything else to do. He responded to the neighbors' complain. This happens more often than we may want to. Even a false alarm on your own security system is a situation when they have to come and check.
The problem is rather in attitude when SOME of them consider their safety as sole responsiblity of others (e.g. civilians), but their safety over the safety of others and, in result, solve any problem with the shooting. The police officer can easily order to lock the dog and don't force the door to be opened.
We all were told that police orders must be obeyed immediately and not to do any additional or abrupt moves. However, I have no idea how exactly this lady was expected to:
1) answer and follow orders of P.O. fast
2) don't make share or abrupt moves
3) and put dogs under the control.
Either way, she would be in the problem and the officer did nothing to help or resolve the situation.
At around 1:10, right before the shot, the black dog (which is the second, and supposedly, attacked the officer) is moving away from the officer at the moment of the shot.
If you also pay close attention, you would see an underage child behind the door. The one he is expected to serve and protect, this child is definitely not in charge of the situation. However, he prefers to serve and protect himself, with no moral problem to endanger anyone around.
Also, pay attention to what and how the office says. He does not sound scared or even under any kind of stress. He said: "why you let the dog touch me". I highlight the "touch" word purposely as I heard from different police officers and different occasions things like "if you touch a police officer with a finger you shall go to the prison".
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Go back and listen again. I believe you will here him say " why are you letting your dog attack me". At least that is what I heard.
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I had a little ankle-biter gnaw on me when I was delivering pizza years ago.
Walked up to the house, knocked on the door, and some guy answered...and around the corner comes the little dog ON A CHAIN.
BARK!BARK!BARK!BARK!
I look down at this thing standing there, barking at me. Looked back at the guy to collect the money and give him his pizza.
This little bugger started in on my ankle like that weasel on Foghorn Leghorn.
I stooped down and swung my right hand in an arc like a golf club and swatted that little piece of sh*t hard enough he soared through the air until the chain yanked it to a stop and he dropped to the ground.
GUY: HEY! DON'T HIT MY DOG!
ME: If your dog doesn't like people, then you need to take him inside or otherwise control him so he won't bite others. You can also warn us when you order your pizza and we'll wait until you do. But if you really feel indignant about this, feel free to call the police and I'll be HAPPY to show them my ankle.
I delivered to that house again a couple weeks later. Almost a repeat...except this time when the dog came running around the corner and saw who it was...he reversed direction and went back around the side of the house.
Training was effective, apparently.
Walked up to the house, knocked on the door, and some guy answered...and around the corner comes the little dog ON A CHAIN.
BARK!BARK!BARK!BARK!
I look down at this thing standing there, barking at me. Looked back at the guy to collect the money and give him his pizza.
This little bugger started in on my ankle like that weasel on Foghorn Leghorn.
I stooped down and swung my right hand in an arc like a golf club and swatted that little piece of sh*t hard enough he soared through the air until the chain yanked it to a stop and he dropped to the ground.
GUY: HEY! DON'T HIT MY DOG!
ME: If your dog doesn't like people, then you need to take him inside or otherwise control him so he won't bite others. You can also warn us when you order your pizza and we'll wait until you do. But if you really feel indignant about this, feel free to call the police and I'll be HAPPY to show them my ankle.
I delivered to that house again a couple weeks later. Almost a repeat...except this time when the dog came running around the corner and saw who it was...he reversed direction and went back around the side of the house.
Training was effective, apparently.
To shoot a dog on it's own territory with a warrant is bullshit, The police should have to retreat past the property line before killing a dog with a warrant.
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Do you have to have a search warrant to knock on the front door?
You can get a warrant to shoot a dog?
No, but to shoot a homeowners dog or any pet, on the property, yes.
So, a cop, or anybody for that matter, can not defend himself against a dog or two dogs that are attacking him when he is on private property on which he is legally allowed to be? If he does not, as you said, have to have a warrant to knock on the front door, then he is legally allowed to be where he was. I do not see where having a warrant has anything at all to do with this situation.
Yes
That pretty much gives me license to assault with my dog, gun, knife, or any other weapon anyone who comes to my front door without them being legally allowed to protect themselves. A dog is, indeed, a weapon kept by very many people specifically to have another weapon against intruders. You are responsible for the actions of your dog just as you are responsible for any bullet fired from a firearm.
Once a person tries to break in or actually forces his way into my house, he has lost his right to life, and no holds are barred. Coming to the front door to talk to me is quite different.
Once a person tries to break in or actually forces his way into my house, he has lost his right to life, and no holds are barred. Coming to the front door to talk to me is quite different.
I sincerely hope no one here thinks this is true cause You goin' jail!
Once a person enters the property unauthorized should be the rule. I should not have to wait for you to start breaking into my house to defend my property. I know and understand the law says other wise.
I suppose the mailman, UPS driver, Girl Scout cookie salesperson, and most other people who might knock on a front door would be unauthorized and subject to the use of lethal force. Who would be authorized?
Are you allowed to use lethal force to defend property in NC? I do not think so.
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OP
Dude...people are allowed to walk up to your door. This isn’t a crime. If you feel so absolutely against people being able to make free approach to your door, then put up a massive fence lined with signs. Otherwise, people can knock on your door.
All people are technically “unauthorized” unless they call you before hand and get permission...so screw UPS, FedEx, amazon Prime, USPS
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By default most front yards wouldn’t be considered curtilage. This changes with physical barriers, I would suggest beyond a decorative fence with an unlocked gate, and posted no trespassing signs.
The whole situation was avoidable imo, the lady never should have opened the door because the animals were clearly agitated by the presence of a stranger, which imo is completely normal behavior and to be expected, she clearly saw it was an officer and again imo, she should have told the cop to hold tight while she secured the animals, it’s common sense after all, if the cop (or any visitors form that matter) gets bent out of shape because because they had to wait several minutes for her to get the animals restrained or confined, they can go piss up a rope for all I care.
The cop over reacted imo, he could clearly see the animals were agitated and that the woman was attempting to be cooperative, he went straight to lethal force and escalated the situation way beyond what was necessary, of course I may be wrong in assuming that the cop didn’t have a taser or some form of chemical based non lethal equipment on hand but either of those would have been better suited for this encounter.
I know I’m “armchair quarterbacking” with my opinion here, but I just didn’t see anything that justified lethal force in this encounter, mace or a taser maybe, sure if the dog was gnawing on him or is both dogs were in full blown attack mode, shoot’em both to end the attack.
The cop over reacted imo, he could clearly see the animals were agitated and that the woman was attempting to be cooperative, he went straight to lethal force and escalated the situation way beyond what was necessary, of course I may be wrong in assuming that the cop didn’t have a taser or some form of chemical based non lethal equipment on hand but either of those would have been better suited for this encounter.
I know I’m “armchair quarterbacking” with my opinion here, but I just didn’t see anything that justified lethal force in this encounter, mace or a taser maybe, sure if the dog was gnawing on him or is both dogs were in full blown attack mode, shoot’em both to end the attack.
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Invited, so...my 2% of a buck
Woman bears most of the blame for this. She should have never opened the door. She should have told the officer that she'd come around from the back to talk to him.
But...
From my perspective...and I know that I wasn't there, so this is conjecture...the cop overreacted. The dog ran past him, and his "Why are you letting your dog attack me?" statement was purely a CYA play. If the dog had actually attacked him, or even bit him, there wouldn't have been time to ask that question. Based on my own experience with dogs, he wasn't in any immediate danger.
And...There was plenty of time for him to tell her not to open the door.
Oh, please. You're more likely to get bitten by a Golden Retriever than an American Pit Bull Terrier.
I've been involved with dog rescue for nearly 35 years. There are presently 25 dogs residing here at Castle Doghair, including a pit that's been here for 11 years. I've got bite scars on both arms from the wrists to the elbows from pulling sick, injured, and frightened dogs out of culverts and from under vehicles and crawl spaces.. I've been tagged by just about every breed, mixed breed, and Heinz 57 that you can name...and I've never been bitten by an APBT. Never.
I lost a Pit in December '18 that had been here for six years, and I miss her every day. She was clearly dangerous, though. Once, she nearly beat me to death with her tail. When she got that thing in wiggle butt drive, it was brutal.
Cheers,
Johnny
Woman bears most of the blame for this. She should have never opened the door. She should have told the officer that she'd come around from the back to talk to him.
But...
From my perspective...and I know that I wasn't there, so this is conjecture...the cop overreacted. The dog ran past him, and his "Why are you letting your dog attack me?" statement was purely a CYA play. If the dog had actually attacked him, or even bit him, there wouldn't have been time to ask that question. Based on my own experience with dogs, he wasn't in any immediate danger.
And...There was plenty of time for him to tell her not to open the door.
Oh, please. You're more likely to get bitten by a Golden Retriever than an American Pit Bull Terrier.
I've been involved with dog rescue for nearly 35 years. There are presently 25 dogs residing here at Castle Doghair, including a pit that's been here for 11 years. I've got bite scars on both arms from the wrists to the elbows from pulling sick, injured, and frightened dogs out of culverts and from under vehicles and crawl spaces.. I've been tagged by just about every breed, mixed breed, and Heinz 57 that you can name...and I've never been bitten by an APBT. Never.
I lost a Pit in December '18 that had been here for six years, and I miss her every day. She was clearly dangerous, though. Once, she nearly beat me to death with her tail. When she got that thing in wiggle butt drive, it was brutal.
Cheers,
Johnny
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