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9outof10mms

9outof10mms

Enginerding, good coffee, and factual opinions.
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
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Venting...maybe in hopes of some nugget of advice...but more venting...

Our pup--a lab/border collie mix of 10 years--developed a "bump" on one of her front leg elbows this past spring. It started small-ish, but noticeable. Seemed to have popped up literally over the weekend. She was staying at someone's house while we went on a short trip. We came back and there was a "bump." Maybe the size of half a ping pong ball and squishy--not fluid squishy, but fatty cell squishy. Nothing solid.

At her yearly check-up this past spring, the vet took a look at it and wasn't too concerned, but gave some options. We opted to let it be until when/if it starts hindering or hurting her--the vet agreed that was a reasonable approach. For the time being, it was just a weird lump that caused her no pain or discomfort. Since then, it's grown slowly to double the original size.

Fast forward to 24-36 hours ago: it's nearly doubled in size from where it was a week ago and is causing her to limp--so bad, she can't lift herself off of the floor/out of her bed. This was as of this morning. Of course I took her to the vet as soon as they opened this morning. A fill-in vet was there today who specialized in ER surgery.

She tells me that it's very unlikely that they can just lop it off since it's grown so big now (about the size of a little less than a baseball), that the wound would never heal. I thought you could slit the skin open, scoop out the yuck, and stitch it back. Apparently they'd take the skin too, leaving a 2+ inch hole that would need daily bandage changes for 2-3 months. Not gonna happen.

The vet says the lump now feels a little hardened and is very indicative of a cancerous tumor. She recommends an X-ray of the leg and chest to see if anything is there and if it has spread into her chest (at which point, she says there's nothing that can be done). If it looks cancerous, radiation would be the treatment to reduce the size, then try to remove it when its smaller.

Or...and here is the kick in the balls of today...

...Amputate.

Wasn't expecting that option. The vet says it like it's nothing--the dog will heal and be just as happy/stupid as she is today.

No in-between...no removing the lump of stuff that's there without x-rays and biopsy. Either cut her leg off or spend a shit ton of money on human-level "cancer treatment."

All this within just a few months of it being no real concern.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I have a low level of faith in doctors. I'm not pinning the hurt and blame on them (entirely)--but damn it, if I make such an egregiously wrong decision, even an opinion, I get held to the fire. I'm not advocating litigation or any of that stuff. To be honest, I don't know what the hell I'm advocating other than my dog's hurt and they want me to go broke to fix her.
 
sorry to hear that man - are you going to take her somewhere else and see what they say?

i have very little faith in people in just about any profession anymore.
 
is the lump hard or does it feel liquid filled if liquid filled have them drain and biopsy the fluid? I mean what harm would it be to do this and wouldn't be that costly? If they can do this then once small they can remove the pocket without taking a crapload of everything else with it
 
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I have borzoi (sighthounds) and a vet has to have dealt with or know about them as medications on them can be deadly so I can understand distrust in vets/dr.s period
 
I don't mean to throw an entire profession under the bus...especially one that could literally save my butt one day. And part of my disillusion is my own naivety in thinking doctors can know all and solve all--in the words of Donald Trump: Wrong.

Is it hard of liquidy? Just in the past week or so it has become far more hard than squishy. The rate of growth and her apparent discomfort tells me it's likely something serious--or at least that's my gut.
 
smithnwesley said:
are you going to take her somewhere else and see what they say?
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I don't know. I've had the thought to do this...but...and I just got done bad mouthing doctors/vets...I tend to trust the vet's opinion from today. She was not the original vet that saw my girl several months ago. And she says she's an ER emergency vet most of the time (just filling in for the normal vet today), so she has experience with superficial surgeries and the like. She was pretty confident that this lump couldn't be removed in its current state for the sole reason of the size of the resulting wound. THat's not rocket surgery: the size of a wound is what it is. Now whether or not they could just slice the skin, take the lump out, then stitch the flappy skin up...I guess there's the second opinion.
 
yeah they leave certain wounds open that is true that way any crap in there would drain wife had a dog most of the muscle and skin got tore off by a car and the vet told her to just dress the wound and let it heal and it took a bit but it did heal
 
Get a second opinion from another vet. We use Atrium in Pineville for many years and have been really happy with them.

I've known several dogs who had no idea they were supposed to have another leg... And we had an office cat at my first surveying job who we called Tripod. They can handle it.
 
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eddie0225 said:
if nothing else have them do a biopsy
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$350 to do a biopsy. They say she'd have to be sedated for it.

Not gonna happen.

I may do the x-ray since they say it'd show if there's any "mass" in her chest, at which point it becomes a done deal to do nothing but keep her comfortable.

My gut says she'll be losing a leg. She's only 10...I've still got 4+ good years I was expecting from her. If those years have to be spent hobbling around, then I guess so be it.

Woulda been nice if the vet said back when this thing first bubbled up that it may end up in amputation if you don't do something now. Now I get to live with the wonder of what if.
 
Tough decision, what would the dog do for you??? You'll need to use your conscious decision making skills but if it was my dog I'd do whatever it needed to remain whole and active. Dressing the wound for a little while isn't as bad as it sounds, I did it with Bailey and after a couple of times she just resigned herself to it and things got easier, for both of us....
 
Tough. I would feel the same way if it were my dog.

Being in healthcare and thinking retrospectively from the pov of the vet, it's always best to provide info with data in a way a patient can understand. So when I say it should be fine since only 0.5% of these cases get complicated, I always point out that 0.5% means it does happen, and it happens in 1/200 cases. People tend to understand 1 in 200 better than 0.5% for some reason.

Anyway, next step is options. (1) Take care of this now for $500 rather than $5,000 later or (2) let it be and hope you are on the right side of the 1/200 statistic. It doesn't take away the pain or anguish of being that 1, but it changes the patient's mindset of it being bad luck vs I didn't explain the options. Good decisions are made with good information.

Cases like this make me want to run home and check my dog. When she was 11 months old I locked in the monthly rate for <1 year old dogs for pet insurance. I think the biggest deterrent to more people getting pet insurance is they don't want to pay for something you will likely never use. I think that's the wrong mindset. Winning with pet insurance means something terrible has to happen. Pet insurance isn't something you should want to win on. I got the highest possible deductible to pay the lowest premium. It doesn't help with appointments or meds, I have it strictly for catastrophic expenses. If the unthinkable happens, it's one less thing for me to worry about in what is already a stressful time period.
 
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It is a hard call.

I would think that having the mass cut out would be an option. It will either work or it'll start to grow back at which point you make another decision.

10 years is when they start to decline anyway and amputating the leg won't go as well as when it was young.
 
Damn, sorry to hear that! I’m with the others who say get a second opinion. It may be worth the piece of mind that your tried, if nothing else.
 
Yep, second opinion. Amputation on a front leg, of a 10 yo bigger breed is hard. I've fostered a couple tri pods, one front, one back. The dog with the back leg learned to carry on in less than a week, but was really young. The front leg was on a 60 pound dog, about 8 yo, and it struggled some. It also set on problems quicker with the good front leg from all the weight on the front part of the body, transferring right down to the good leg. If it was me, I would get the problem removed, change dressings as needed, and get my pup back on four paws. Good luck.

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If you want a second opinion, we've been very pleased with Highlands Pet Hospital. Not too far a drive from Mint Hill coming around 485 to Concord.
 
I just had a tumor removed from my 13 year old dog today. It was not the normal fatty sack tumor that dogs get ,it got hard as a rock and large on her leg. It burst open last week and the vet removed it today.

The vet was apprehensive about putting her under as old as she is ,but after it burst it was only one of two options. Old friends are hard to part with without giving something a try.

I'd get a second opinion in your case ,but all this cost money.
 
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ES44AC said:
I just had a tumor removed from my 13 year old dog today. It was not the normal fatty sack tumor that dogs get ,it got hard as a rock and large on her leg. It burst open last week and the vet removed it today.

The vet was apprehensive about putting her under as old as she is ,but after it burst it was only one of two options. Old friends are hard to part with without giving something a try.

I'd get a second opinion in your case ,but all this cost money.
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That's tough too. Older dogs sometimes don't recover completely from anesthesia either.

One of the greatest dogs that ever lived showed me that when at age 11 I took him in for a teeth cleaning he was never as spry after that. Before he could run up to the top of the round hay bales but never again after. I won't make that mistake again.
 
ES44AC said:
I just had a tumor removed from my 13 year old dog today. It was not the normal fatty sack tumor that dogs get ,it got hard as a rock and large on her leg. It burst open last week and the vet removed it today.

The vet was apprehensive about putting her under as old as she is ,but after it burst it was only one of two options. Old friends are hard to part with without giving something a try.

I'd get a second opinion in your case ,but all this cost money.
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How big was it?
 
ES44AC said:
About the size of a orange.
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Short of the bursting open, this sounds identical to my girl's problem. Did the procedure leave a large wound or any other issues?

I'm worried about an open wound for 3+ months (as the vet said would happen if it was just lopped off).
 
I don't have a picture of it bare. No other complications so far,but it was just yesterday.
 
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That' a little lower than my girl's "bump" location. Her's is literally right at the elbow joint.

But still...this is helpful info. It's what I expected the vet to say yesterday...that we could just cut it off, stitch it, nurse a manageable wound for a few weeks, and be done with it.

Not pay $10k for cancer treatment or cut the whole damn leg off.
 
What were the other options the vet gave you the first time around??
If it was me, I would have done something then. My dog is my family, if I found a lump on me or a family member I would get it fixed when found.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Weigh the options you have now and take one. A front leg amputation on an older dog is hard to adjust to, more than a back leg, but they are individuals yours might handle it well.
Good luck.
 
They gave us a prescription for some sort of powerful stuff that required a blood work check for liver/kidneys first. She started that a day ago after getting a green light...she’s like a new dog, almost. The lump is still there, but she can walk; in fact, I have to calm her down and keep her form running and jumping.

We’re getting an X-ray next week to see what’s up. Then I might see about the option of staying on this pill. The vet said it has a small reducing capability for the lump. I’d like to see if it does anything. It took her pain away almost instantly. I could be blinded by hope...I don’t know.

We’ve settled on amputation as a path forward if there is no other less-intrusive option.

Options given several months ago: biopsy and move forward from the results; or monitor as it wasn’ too worrisome at the time. With how aggressive this thing has been in the last week, it very likely would have resurfaced had we lopped it off back in the spring. Then we’d be right back where we are now.
 
The lump sprung a leak yesterday. Came home to several little bloody spots all over the house. I got to practice field dressing a dog’s elbow. You’ve not completed your first aid badge until you’ve done that...successfully.

Took her to a more rural vet today for a second opinion. They sedated her for an X-ray, and while she was out, the vet felt the lump. It oozed more, so she squeezed it. Let’s just say thank God I wasn’t in the room when that baby blew! It looked like a small murder scene when I came back. There woulda been two piles of “fluids”if I were in there!!!

The X-rays were clean and the doc surmised that this was just an abscess. She cleaned it out and drained it as much as possible. Installed a drain tube which stays in place for a week. In the meantime, we just keep her on pain meds and antibiotics.

Glad I trusted my gut. This other vet was so much more comfortable—hell, the girls at the front desk brought me food when I was cracking jokes about being hungry from skipping lunch today to make time for the vet visit. Maybe it was the joke about eating the next small yapper dog that came in the door!

+1 for second opinions.
+1 for “country” vets.

My girl gets to keep her leg and I’m out less than $500.
 
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premise said:
Great news, and glad you found a new vet. Eff the old one.
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Yeah—I’m not mad at the other place. Annoyed, sure. They coulda have put a little more effort into feeling this thing out before freaking me out with images of a tripod dog!

I wouldn’t go as far as to say urban vets don’t care as much or just want to jump to the most expensive option...but this country vet certainly lived up to the stereotype of being a little more resourceful and getting the job done right then and there for a reasonable amount. But most importantly, they gave my girl a far better option which seems to be working.

Now to just keep her off the carpeted areas until this thing stops dripping so the house doesn’t look like a murder scene!
 
Glad she didn't lose the leg, heres to many more good years together for you and her
 
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