Door in a concrete wall

[noway2]

We've been building a new home for my parents that has a poured concrete basement. I really wanted there to be no indication of a basement being visible from the outside, opsec and all that, but the county insisted that there be a second and direct exit. What we ended up with is a form of escape hatch that has (or will have) a door that goes to a vertical tunnel with a ladder attached to the wall and it can have a lockable bulkhead on the outside. There is a door that goes from this hatch tunnel into the basement proper. Naturally I want this to be secure and my thoughts gravitated towards a steel door with a steel frame secured into the concrete and had communicated these ideas to the general contractor.

We're at the stage where we activated the heating system under conditional power to finish the interior of the house as wood flooring and even painting of the Sheetrock is best done (or necessary for the floor) in a consistent conditioned space.

Anyway, I noticed that the GC had installed a door in this location and it looked like a six panel interior door. WTH??? Last evening I went down in the basement with a flashlight and looked at it. You can see through the door knob / bolt holes that it is wood. The GC claims its a steel door with a wood core. What's more is that it has a wood frame attached to the concrete.... me starting to not like this. The GC claims that it has treated lumber between (so what, it's still wood against concrete which isn't good, especially if water is a possibility which I think would be even with a bulkhead over the hatch area).

The real kicker, however, was that I noticed the door sill plate, which is sloped and that it faces inward (DOH!). What I determined that the guy did is take an outward swinging door and turn it around so that it swung inward. (SMH).

As long as it cam be made secure, an inward door makes some safety sense as it would be a lot harder to block the door from being able to be opened from the outside be it deliberate or by debris.

The basement is solid concrete and above the door was left open. Ideally it probably should have had a steel plate put across the opening and been poured as part of the wall, but it wasn't. The GC's solution was to stick a couple of piece of treated plywood over the hole and fill it with insulation (Jesus Christ on a pogo stick).

We went back and forth, and I could tell I was making him angry, but we finally agreed to get a commercial door that will be grouted into the concrete and find a masonry solution for above the door.

From a construction standpoint, does what I am after make sense and any suggestions as for how best to install this and more importantly how best to fill the wall hole above the door?

 

[Catfish]

Are you wondering yet what other corners this guy has cut?

 

[noway2]

Are you wondering yet what other corners this guy has cut?

The thing is that there is no reason to cut corners. We're building cost plus. If anything I think they're trying to milk the job for $$$. We've been watching things pretty close and several of the subs are working more for us than him (we got them on the job), which pisses him off, but he's been trying. For example, the guy we wanted to do the Sheetrock and painting had a death in the family so he hired another crew to hang it. Ok, but they taped it and put mud on too. Well we got our preferred guy and he's making the first crew come back because the job was shoddy.

We are down to the finish details and I think he wants to get out of there and on to the next job. He tried to pull a fast one and got caught. Of course it's going to cost us more money now including his I'm pissed off factor.

 

[Chdamn]

OK, building code only requires a pressure treated barrier, so he is correct that if you put PT framing against the concrete and then installed the door it's fine as far as code goes.

But I'm not a big fan of "To code". I would have put a vapor barrier between the concrete and the PT but that's me and its not required.

I can't tell you without looking at it if it is a wooden core steel door, or an interior door but if he just reversed a door and installed it, that is troubling as the threshold piece is important for condensation and water flow.

 

[noway2]

OK, building code only requires a pressure treated barrier, so he is correct that if you put PT framing against the concrete and then installed the door it's fine as far as code goes.

Agreed. That is my understanding too.

But I'm not a big fan of "To code".

Me neither. I consider code to be the minimal quality standard and everything we've done, at every step of the way, has been above code or the minimum.

I would have put a vapor barrier between the concrete and the PT but that's me and its not required.

I was thinking of this too. Actually it reminded me of how we put the plastic insulation barrier between the framing and the concrete slab on the shop that we built for my wife. If I had to put wood against concrete I would want an impermeable barrier. I am thinking that he may have shimmed it (with pine ?) with the shims against the concrete.

I can't tell you without looking at it if it is a wooden core steel door, or an interior door but if he just reversed a door and installed it, that is troubling as the threshold piece is important for condensation and water flow.

I am going to take a closer look at it tonight, including taking my flashlight which has a magnet on it to check for steel. I am also going to look closely at the weather seal and things which would be different on an interior versus exterior door. It has a metal threshold which suggests its an exterior one. I will take a picture of it tonight as best I can and post. Here is a picture of the house from Oct. The area in question is the little box on the right hand side, in front of the garage. I consider this to be an exterior environment and as such potentially wet and having the threshold slope inwards would be wrong.

 

[Chdamn]

Agreed. That is my understanding too.


Me neither. I consider code to be the minimal quality standard and everything we've done, at every step of the way, has been above code or the minimum.


I was thinking of this too. Actually it reminded me of how we put the plastic insulation barrier between the framing and the concrete slab on the shop that we built for my wife. If I had to put wood against concrete I would want an impermeable barrier. I am thinking that he may have shimmed it (with pine ?) with the shims against the concrete.


I am going to take a closer look at it tonight, including taking my flashlight which has a magnet on it to check for steel. I am also going to look closely at the weather seal and things which would be different on an interior versus exterior door. It has a metal threshold which suggests its an exterior one. I will take a picture of it tonight as best I can and post. Here is a picture of the house from Oct. The area in question is the little box on the right hand side, in front of the garage. I consider this to be an exterior environment and as such potentially wet and having the threshold slope inwards would be wrong.

View attachment 32384

Just FYI some of them are aluminum skinned and won't hold a magnet but you should be able to tell by feel and then when you open the door the metal vainer should be pretty evident on most of them.

 

[noway2]

Just FYI some of them are aluminum skinned and won't hold a magnet but you should be able to tell by feel and then when you open the door the metal vainer should be pretty evident on most of them.

I'll follow up on this later. Hopefully with some pictures. One of the justifications I heard from the GC, or rather his wife whom we usually try to deal with, is that he put a magnet on it. Why would he do that unless there was a question? (Suspicious).

 

[Button Pusher]

Use canned smoke to test that the door was installed properly.
You can't get good help these days, you paying top dollar but end up with poor quality work.

I'm having to repair water damaged back door and the sub floor because the door was never installed properly,
no caulking at all, I guess I'm lucky it lasted 26 years.

 

[Diablos]

I'd want a lentil to support the masonry work

 

[Burt Gummer]

I'd want a lentil to support the masonry work

This. If there isn’t one above that door, there probably should’ve been

 

[Cowboy]

Burn it down! Wait wrong thread.

 

[noway2]

Burn it down! Wait wrong thread.

Please, don't temp me it would keep my parents in Ohio longer.

 

[noway2]

I'll post pictures tomorrow. I think it's obvious the guy installed the door backwards. The wood sill is on the outside and the threshold is on the inside. It is a steel clad wood core, but he shimmed it in place against a concrete wall with pine boards.

 

[Djstorm100]

Vapor barrier under slab is code. We sale rebar (and fab it), stamps, dyes, high chairs and a host of other commercial building supplies.

For the door as Chad stated at the absolute very least put vapor barrier. 6 mil will work and be tad over kill but who's counting.

Something like this happen with my Dad when he had contractor (that he later fired) put in front door which was the wrong door. Contractor told my dad something along the lines of "it's just there for inspection" it was close to closing and one night Dad goes out and rips the door out. Contractor comes and Dad mentions kids must of done it. He was fired after he installed the correct door. Him and I worked on the 2nd story until he found another contractor.

 

[noway2]

I took some pictures on my phone that I'll post later this morning. The door is clearly in backwards as the finish grade wood sill is on the exterior and the metal threshold is in the interior sloping inwards. The inside wood trim sits right up against the concrete. Outside he shimmed it in a few places with some boards and there is a big gap between the door frame / trim and the concrete. I'm not even sure it's anchored to anything either.

 

[MuzzerFuzzer]

We had exterior basement door problems for 14 years in Liberty when we were there. The last one was a 34 inch commercial steel door that I bought at a surplus place, with it's frame. It had to be cut because of being too tall. It failed inside of a year from rust on the interior of the door from it being stored outside before I bought it. The new owner took out the rusty door and frame and using 8 inch cinderblock and rebar and a polymix concrete, he built a small portico and installed a mobile home door and frame. We used to visit before Arlene got bad off. It's turned out to be one of those "Why didn't I think of that?" moments. Those doors are specifically designed to be exposed to the elements and they're dirt cheap.

 

[Get Off My Lawn]

Contractors & GC's can be a nightmare, I've been my own GC on our last 3 homes.
It can be difficult to get a good contractor on a small job in this market.
We had some great contractors this last go around, I can't locate Mothership, NC, what town/city are you in?

 

[Djstorm100]

Here's a idea...why not leave the door. When your get the permit use some rebar and just block the door hole up. Can't remember how many times my family or friends have pulled stuff like that. Less the gov't knows the better, after all morons run this country down to township level.

 

[noway2]

Here's a idea...why not leave the door. When your get the permit use some rebar and just block the door hole up. Can't remember how many times my family or friends have pulled stuff like that. Less the gov't knows the better, after all morons run this country down to township level.

I wouldn't be opposed to that. I didn't want a secondary access anyway. Seeing as the house if for my parents, they are concerned about escape after a tornado, or is that sharknado? In the interim, I still want it done right and want it to be secure. I took some pictures of the existing setup.

The first one shows the door threshold. The finished grade wood side is the exterior and the metal threshold, sloping inward, is the interior. I think it shows pretty clearly that the door is backwards. The hard to make out picture shows how he 'framed' it on the outside. Basically in a few areas he put a piece of wood against the concrete and then shimmed it against the door. If you reach your hand in there, there are big gaps between the door frame and the concrete. I question if it is even anchored. Next there is one of the wall patch above the door. I think that's wonky. The wall is 12" thick concrete. There is no vapor barrier against any of the wood, including the raw door frame.

As far as the wall goes, slapping a piece of wood above the door and calling finished is not. I want a masonry solution - I would likely bore rebar in the wall, put some expansion gaskets on the ends (concrete on concrete isn't necessarily good if they expand / contract differently) and then pour it.

 

[Djstorm100]

$20 buck says he order the right door but didn't measure for the hole with the ladder. Unable for the door to open in to the ladder room and not wanting to waste a door or exchange it, he just flipped it around.

 

[noway2]

$20 buck says he order the right door but didn't measure for the hole with the ladder. Unable for the door to open in to the ladder room and not wanting to waste a door or exchange it, just he flipped it around.

Good Point. Didn't think of that. The ladder that is there is just a temporary one so workers could get in and out. The final one will be vertical and tied into the concrete wall. Still, the door I think is 36" and the hatch isn't much bigger(*), so that he probably realized that once the ladder goes up, they won't be able to open the door and so he just turned it around.

* - The dimensions of the hatch were approved by the county construction and permitting department. When the inspector came out, he claimed it was too small and got in an argument with the GC about it. The fact that it was approved and by extension met 'code' carried the day.

 

[Djstorm100]

Good Point. Didn't think of that. The ladder that is there is just a temporary one so workers could get in and out. The final one will be vertical and tied into the concrete wall. Still, the door I think is 36" and the hatch isn't much bigger(*), so that he probably realized that once the ladder goes up, they won't be able to open the door and so he just turned it around.

* - The dimensions of the hatch were approved by the county construction and permitting department. When the inspector came out, he claimed it was too small and got in an argument with the GC about it. The fact that it was approved and by extension met 'code' carried the day.

Bingo.

My Dad finally (after 10 years of be bugging the absolute crap out of him) is building his own shop on land he's own for 11 years. Long story short, when he bought the land the country grandfather him in so he doesn't have to have a retention pond. After I did the site drawings and plans for the building (I'm a CAD guy). The county can back saying "no no you need a rention pond, blah blah." We showed them in writing where they granted a grandfather clause. They again tired to wezzle saying it's void because of administration change and it would of been approved if bought today. Made a phone call to our lawyer while standing in front of them. Went to hand the phone over and wouldn't you know they then dropped it all.