I videoed myself doing the wizard drill this am but wasn’t sure how to post the video. I went over a touch on time but had nice groups which I probably couldn’t do again. Guess I’ll have to brush up on the old YouTube tonight.
Drill of the Month - January 2020
- Thread starter Fortitude Consulting
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I videoed myself doing the wizard drill this am but wasn’t sure how to post the video. I went over a touch on time but had nice groups which I probably couldn’t do again. Guess I’ll have to brush up on the old YouTube tonight.
Was the top target the first slow fire round??? Did you do it complete in a single run! Couldn't tell with the low left rounds. Fine reaction and presentation.
Yeah top was slowish fire. I just fired all 5 rounds of 5 on the bottom target cause I didn't want to print out all the others.
Yeah just upload it to youtube then copy the link into your post here and it will embed it.
5x5 drill
I forgot to do the first one slow fire.
shot the last one for fun after I finished recording, probably couldn’t repeat a group like that though lol.
I forgot to do the first one slow fire.
shot the last one for fun after I finished recording, probably couldn’t repeat a group like that though lol.
OP
Yes, there absolutely is. In order to give feedback on your shooting, it's a lot easier to do so if we can see you while you are drawing and firing, with a glace of the targets at the end of the video.
I'm gonna try and get mine posted up in the next couple of days. I have it on video but apparently it's in the wrong format to post here.
OP
LOL. I actually screwed to pooch on recording the slow fire group myself.
Nice runs man. Your technique looks solid, grip is money in my opinion and your visual patience is on point.
OP
Well, I think I finally got the video posting thing figured out, however I actually turned the camera OFF for the initial slow fire group, instead of turning it on.
This really was one of those simple, but not easy drills. I like that it is shot up close, so it was easy to see how much the hit wavered if you allowed your visual focus to wander before you were done shooting.
Here is my run on this drill:
This really was one of those simple, but not easy drills. I like that it is shot up close, so it was easy to see how much the hit wavered if you allowed your visual focus to wander before you were done shooting.
Here is my run on this drill:
And what good is this if it isn't done from concealment?? I personally don't know anyone that walks around with a duty rig....
I think this drill is more to focus shooting. Instead of looking at the overall draw and shoot, if you break it down and look at just the shooting part, maybe you can see something specific you can focus on and then help the overall picture.
Just my option
OP
Well, first of all, this drill is just that. A drill, for the purpose of skill assessment. The skills need to actually shoot are exactly the same once you clear your holster, whether it happens to be concealed or not.
If you watched the original video from Lucky Gunner, there was a version shot from concealment and one shot from the low ready, as examples of how to go about running the drill.
Additionally, I myself DO walk around with a duty rig, abet on just about a daily basis. So, there's that.
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OP
Solid runs Matt!! That was the definition of consistency. ✊
I shot this today but not video and did not want to wait for the line to go cold to collect my target. It did not run it cold. I had been shooting on the steel range before I ran this drill on the standard pistol range. This might have help it might have hurt. I need to get lunch so I left without taking a pic of my target but I will verbally illustrate my lack luster performance. I shot from the draw but not from conceal. I had a hoodie on and still had to get that out of the way but the gun was not truly concealed. I was running a Wilson EDC X9 out of a Garrett Silent Thunder Holster.
I shot 6 targets which included the base line target. My 5 strings went like this.
One quick question those using a timer are you setting a 5 second par time or just letting the time run?
I shot 6 targets which included the base line target. My 5 strings went like this.
- Shot this clean group was a little low but centered 4.61 seconds.
- Dropped one shot low left 7 o clock about 3/4" of an inch. 4.32 seconds
- Best run shot clean in 3.78 seconds. Still low but in the ring.
- Dropped at about 10 and 1/2" out rushed this one sight was not on target yet. 4.04 seconds
- Dropped on again low closer to 8 o clock 3/4"-1" out. I see a trend. 4.57 second
One quick question those using a timer are you setting a 5 second par time or just letting the time run?
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Took my new timer to the range today, and for some odd reason, I actually expected it to have a battery already in it.....not so much! Silly me.
I intended to set mine for a beep to start, and a beep at 5 seconds. Is that the way to go? (I've never owned a timer.....lol.)
It depends on the drill when there is a "par" of finish time a lot of people will set it to start randomly and then beep again at the par time. I often do not set the par time because I think it causes me to rush anticipating the second beep vs focusing on making a good shot. Clear I am no expert. I only have a timer so I can measure personal improvement from one range session to another.
PS Clearly I studied @Butter 's school for reading instructions. At least he put up a picture. So take my recommendations with a pound of salt. LMAO
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Well, I finally got it set (I think) for 5 seconds, with a random start. If that makes me too crazy, I'll ditch the 5 seconds for now and concentrate on getting the rounds in the circle.
But when I hear a timer, it just means "start doing your thing"....then I just forget it's going.
PS Boy, that thing is loud without my ears on!
Butter
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I believe that you need to set a par time for drills. You don't have to set it at 5 seconds right now if that' s not possible. Set it for 5.5 or 6 seconds, but you need to have goals. When you get to 5.5 seconds drop it down a couple tenths or half second. Push yourself.
Yes!
It's what I've been doing since I started my first training class at Jim's Range way back in October of 2018!
Two years ago, just getting out of the house took a huge push! lol.
Disagree, shoot it, look at the timer, hang head in shame/disgust/what have you. Second beep is just oh well I failed, stop. Only good it does in live fire is letting everyone know if you slay it.
We just let it run.
There really is no right or wrong way.
This is also part of my thinking. When the 2nd beep or par time goes off there is a hesitation and stink of failure rises in my shooting bay which disrupts my rhythm and I stop.
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OP
.................I let the gold dot front drop too far into the u notch. I have not messed with the elevation because I assume it is me not the sights based on the test target that came with the gun..............................As I have stated many times I am far from fast and not always accurate.
- Shot this clean group was a little low but centered 4.61 seconds.
- Dropped one shot low left 7 o clock about 3/4" of an inch. 4.32 seconds
- Best run shot clean in 3.78 seconds. Still low but in the ring.
- Dropped at about 10 and 1/2" out rushed this one sight was not on target yet. 4.04 seconds
- Dropped on again low closer to 8 o clock 3/4"-1" out. I see a trend. 4.57 second
One quick question those using a timer are you setting a 5 second par time or just letting the time run?
So, this post is just screaming for feedback. Hope you don't mind the dissertation to come, and that it actually helps.
First and foremost, good catch on the trends you identified. The occasional shoots that were dropped seem to be coming out low and left of the target. I would recommend you checking (by feel) the amount of grip pressure you are using, dominant versus support side hand. You want to have more on the support hand side than you have on your dominant side. That patter of shots, to the left, almost always means that you need to increase the amount of pressure on your support hand side. That will almost assuredly bring those dropped rounds back into the desired point of impact.
"As I have stated many times I am far from fast and not always accurate" - as for this statement. Believe it or not, this and other thoughts like it (even if said in jest) have A LOT to do with performance. Essentially, if you want positive results, we need to feed our brains positive thoughts. YOU have plenty to be happy about from a marksmanship perspective on this drill. You finished all of the groups well within the par time and your best run was a clean run at under 4 seconds. Believe it or not, the average gun owner/CCW carrier is not capable of that level of performance. You have a few things to polish up, we all do, but you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. You, in fact, are fast and accurate, don't sell yourself short.
As for the timer, you can do both. You can either set a par time to let you know when the 5 seconds is up or just go off the last recorded shot. I prefer the latter myself. I almost never set a par time in live fire, only when using the timer for dry fire. Great question though!
Hope this feedback helps out some. I look forward to you seeing some progress and nailing this drill later this month!
OP
BTW........I absolutely love the exchange of ideas going on here, with something as simple as timer setting protocols. I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer for a lot of things. Being able to get other perspectives and shooters finding their preferred way of doing things is the true path to mastery!
Please keep it up y'all!!
Please keep it up y'all!!
I agree 100% on the grip pressure it is almost always mid string. In drills like this I am focusing more on the time factor vs the shots themselves. It is a concentration thing. It is a consistency thing. It is something I am aware of and am working on.
I for the rest I am 100% secure in my abilities but I am realistic. I look around at the ranges I have shot at over the years and I will agree with you I am better than the avg gun owner/CCW carrier but for me that does no mean much. I always think of George Carlin's joke about the avg. Paraphrasing when you thin of how stupid the average person is consider that they are smarter than half the people out there.
I am better than the avg person at the range. I might on a good day better than almost everyone at the range on a given day but in the grand scheme of things I am still "not fast and not accurate" in my humble opinion compared to those who are skilled at pistol craft. I am inconsistent and I am honest about assessing my level of skill. I will shoot that sub 4 second group and then duff the next one. I don't beat myself up about it. I try not to overstate my abilities. I took a Vickers/Hackathorn class with some of the members here. They can attest to my better than avg but not great status. LOL
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OP
That's what I’m talking about!!
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Let me start with excuses. Literally the first live fire since 12/21 and other than a few dry draws only gun handling. My index was not good. My first string grip sloppy. And per usual I had a ton of tension in the neck/shoulders.
That said first string was around 4.0 I think, there was a 3.19, and the last was 2.56. Sent one low left on the third or fourth shot.
That said first string was around 4.0 I think, there was a 3.19, and the last was 2.56. Sent one low left on the third or fourth shot.
OP
Nice runs, even better self assessments, which is what this is all about. Above and beyond what you already pointed out, I see that you are bearing down (head movement) behind the gun just before shooting your group. This is exacerbating the tension you pointed out occurring in your neck and shoulder. If you kept a bit more of a upright posture it would help to alleviate that tension, allow you to obtain a property sight picture sooner, and stabilize the dot in the window.
Speaking of which, it looks like you are running a Holosun, which model and what do you think of it?
Yeah the head movement and shrug is the issue. Which seems to be caused by trying to lock out my elbows and poor shoulder mobility. Seems simple to just bend my elbows, but it's a hard habit.
Holosun 407C. Wasn't interested in the circle dot for a handgun. Don't use the auto brightness which means manual everything. Okay so far, not too many rounds under it. Very bright, smallish window and super thick frame bug some people.
Shot today but could not go from the draw so I had to shoot from the low ready. Still no video but at least pics of the targets. I shot the drill 3 times with 3 different guns. Since I was going from the low ready I was trying to concentrate on accuracy not just speed. I was working on my off hand grip trying to make sure I had better pressure on that side of the pistol to help me from pulling left. I shot a Wilson EDC-X9, Don Williams Colt 1911 and a Yost BHP. I have been dry firing at scaled 1/3 IPDA targets at 5 feet which = 5 yards. Basically working on getting the gun up faster with a more consistent punch out to the target.
First set was the Wilson. This one was clean. I numbered them wrong so the first timed group is labeled #2. I am it sure what happened on #3. I was slow between shot 2-3 for some reason. I had a brain freeze.
Next was the Don Williams 1911 which is was the only 45 of the day. I dropped 2 shots. One on string 1 and 3. They were both high. I think this illustrates I have left control and as a result more muzzle movement shooting 45 ACP. If I am reading the target right I was shooting before the sights and the gun had returned to target thus leaving the shots high. Still it was not horrible and the misses were not by much. The one on #3 is almost touching the ring but not close enough. LOL.
*The extra hole in #1 was shot off the timer after the drill it is the hole in the black.
The final run was with a Yost Browning Hi Power . This gun points naturally for me and the times show it. There is a reason I own more BHPs than any other platform and the Yost gun is maybe the best of the breed. This was my fastest times and I did not drop a shot. I rushed a shot on target #4 similar to the 1911 but it was more inline with the black and I was able to keep in circle.
Looking at the results on the timer and on the target it is clear I handle the recoil and muzzle movement or flip of a 9mm pistols vs 45 ACP. Not that the 45 ACP is horrible. I have to remember to be a bit more patient and allow a tiny bit more time between shots to allow the gun to get back to a natural point of aim for me. I will continue to work on both my strong and weak hand grip in an attempt to better control the gun. Not horrible but not great. The rest of the time I shot at 10 and 15 yards into a B8 using a timer and shooting a single shot or string upto 3. I was mainly looking to see how fast and how accurate I could get the pistol up and on target and keep it in the black. Dropped some here and there but did pretty well. 15 yards was much tougher than 10. Finished by shooting clays placed on the berm at 60 yards.
First set was the Wilson. This one was clean. I numbered them wrong so the first timed group is labeled #2. I am it sure what happened on #3. I was slow between shot 2-3 for some reason. I had a brain freeze.
- Base group
- 3.35
- 4.30
- 4.08
- 3.97
- 3.75
Next was the Don Williams 1911 which is was the only 45 of the day. I dropped 2 shots. One on string 1 and 3. They were both high. I think this illustrates I have left control and as a result more muzzle movement shooting 45 ACP. If I am reading the target right I was shooting before the sights and the gun had returned to target thus leaving the shots high. Still it was not horrible and the misses were not by much. The one on #3 is almost touching the ring but not close enough. LOL.
- 3.88 Dropped a shot it was high @ 1 o'clock *
- 3.88
- 4.06 Dropped a shot it was high @ 1 o'clock
- 3.88
- 3.60
*The extra hole in #1 was shot off the timer after the drill it is the hole in the black.
The final run was with a Yost Browning Hi Power . This gun points naturally for me and the times show it. There is a reason I own more BHPs than any other platform and the Yost gun is maybe the best of the breed. This was my fastest times and I did not drop a shot. I rushed a shot on target #4 similar to the 1911 but it was more inline with the black and I was able to keep in circle.
- 3.48
- 3.45
- 3.47
- 3.29
- 3.49
Looking at the results on the timer and on the target it is clear I handle the recoil and muzzle movement or flip of a 9mm pistols vs 45 ACP. Not that the 45 ACP is horrible. I have to remember to be a bit more patient and allow a tiny bit more time between shots to allow the gun to get back to a natural point of aim for me. I will continue to work on both my strong and weak hand grip in an attempt to better control the gun. Not horrible but not great. The rest of the time I shot at 10 and 15 yards into a B8 using a timer and shooting a single shot or string upto 3. I was mainly looking to see how fast and how accurate I could get the pistol up and on target and keep it in the black. Dropped some here and there but did pretty well. 15 yards was much tougher than 10. Finished by shooting clays placed on the berm at 60 yards.
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Wow, aren't you being really tough on yourself? You got most of the shots in the targets, and in way under 5 sec!!! I see only 2 holes outside of the circles.
I guess you experienced shooters are super tough on yourselves....dang!
Thanks for your praise. I am tough on myself because there is lots of room for improvement. I guess the way I look at it I failed 1 out of 3 runs. I should be able to run this from the low ready with these guns 100% of the time. I think the fail with the 1911 is because I shoot more 9mm than I do 45 ACP these days. I should have run it with my little Beretta 81 but I did not have another set of targets. I am willing to bet even with the tiny sights I can clean this 5X5 faster than I can with any 9mm.
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Agree
I Love these guns. I never feel undergunned or out manned when carrying one.
There is a great scene in the Irishman where he talks about picking the right gun and he settles on the .32 S&W which is similar to the .32 ACP. He calls it a women gun but it gets the job done.
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OP
I'd say it was mission accomplished on working to increase the support hand pressure, great work!!
Kudos on hitting those 10/15 yard B8's. Folks just don't practice precision shots at those distances nearly enough in my opinion.
The way you are doing it is exactly what the DOTM thread is about. ::two thumbs up::