Elmer Keith, the .44 Magnum, and the .357

Charlie said:
Get "Hell, I Was There" by Elmer. It is an interesting book. (I think that is the name of the book.)
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That's the correct title
just out of curiosity I checked the price on Amazon 198.00
it's a great read but I don't think I'd pay 198.00 for it
 
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The Great S&W TripleLock lead to All of the N Frame guns....they are magical old guns. If you ever have the opportunity to handle one you will understand. I recently passed one on to a dear friend of mine that I know will treasure it.
I have all of Elmer's books in the Gun Room for all to peruse. It is important to remember that Elmer didn't Want to soup up the .44. He Really wanted a .45. the problem was he blew up several 45s trying to get to where he wanted to Go. The .44 provided more "meat" in the cylinder for him to work with.
.44 Nuts can come here and fondle a TripleLock, a Pre 29, a 629 no dash and the Elmer Keith Commemorative with Ivory stocks.
Any of you that visit and are interested just remind me to let you handle them.
 
Elmer wrote several books, as well as being a contributing author in gun mags for years. Some of his books are out of print, hard to find or expensive when found. But WELL worth the reading.
 
contender said:
Elmer wrote several books, as well as being a contributing author in gun mags for years. Some of his books are out of print, hard to find or expensive when found. But WELL worth the reading.
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The Gun Room Library here has Six Guns, Hell, I Was There and more. All are welcome to look at them while here. They are Not for Sale or Loan.
 
Murtaugh said:
I keep thinking I want a model 29 but it would probably end up being a very expensive dry fire toy or paper weight even if I could find reasonable ammo/brass.
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A SBH scratched the itch for me at a very reasonable price. It doesn’t get out much but it is a hoot when it does.
 
Murtaugh said:
I keep thinking I want a model 29 but it would probably end up being a very expensive dry fire toy or paper weight even if I could find reasonable ammo/brass.
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I picked up a 29 4" recent production piece. It is very accurate with .44 specials. I doubt I will put a full house .44 magnum through it.
 
All of the S&W M29's I ever shot were quite good. I found that Pachmyer grips helped ME over the factory grips when shooting the magnum loads. .44 Mag isn't a pussycat,, but it isn't a wrist breaker either.
 
Never have cottoned to the .44. I've always been a .357 guy, then discovered the .41. If the .41 won't do what I want, I'ma skip past the .429 & go straight to the .452 or larger.
 
After growing up mesmerized by the Tao of Elmer I have either hardened or softened to the point where I think Col. Wesson was right about the .357 Magnum for most uses.
I think the Registered Magnum was the pinnacle of a combat revolver and Patton agreed! :)
 
I love a good .357 but an old 44 makes me warm and fuzzy. I’m still waiting to find a Wolf and Klar model of 1926. I’ve missed a few through the years but I’ll get one before time gets me. I have Sixguns by Keith, both of the Skeeter books that were put out after his death, and a couple of Taffins books if anyone local wants to check them out.
 
Keith had a lot to do with the development of the .357, as well, though he is known much more for the .44 Mag. Skeeter Skelton’s love of the .357 is noteworthy, and drives some of my passion for the cartridge. Both .357 and .44 will be in my stable till my dying day.
 
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I really like the .357, but I love the .45Colt. Not at magnum velocities either. Early on as I was learning to become serious in shooting, my mentor was a .44 Special fan. Big slugs at about 900fps. He also introduced me to the beauty of single actions. Everything was at a slower and deliberate pace. I shot my best then.

Crazy Carl said:
Never have cottoned to the .44. I've always been a .357 guy, then discovered the .41. If the .41 won't do what I want, I'ma skip past the .429 & go straight to the .452 or larger.
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I used to shoot a .41 Blackhawk in Metallic Silhouette. Served me well. I have stories of .357 failures.
 
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georgel said:
I really like the .357, but I love the .45Colt. Not at magnum velocities either. Early on as I was learning to become serious in shooting, my mentor was a .44 Special fan. Big slugs at about 900fps. He also introduced me to the beauty of single actions. Everything was at a slower and deliberate pace. I shot my best then.


I used to shoot a .41 Blackhawk in Metallic Silhouette. Served me well. I have stories of .357 failures.
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If the .45 Ruger Blackhawk has been around in the 1920s, we probably would never have had the .44 Mag. Keith would have been well enough pleased with it.
 
georgel said:
I really like the .357, but I love the .45Colt. Not at magnum velocities either. Early on as I was learning to become serious in shooting, my mentor was a .44 Special fan. Big slugs at about 900fps. He also introduced me to the beauty of single actions. Everything was at a slower and deliberate pace. I shot my best then.


I used to shoot a .41 Blackhawk in Metallic Silhouette. Served me well. I have stories of .357 failures.
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Mass knocks silhouettes down, not merely velocity, as you discovered.

The whole point of the .357 Max was to drive HEAVIER bullets (180-200 grain) fast enough to take down steel consistently, something the .357 Mag couldn’t always do. The original intent was not to see how fast one could make a 158 grain bullet go, which also had the effect of flame cutting top straps and “killing” the cartridge. Hotrodders couldn’t leave well enough alone and the rest is history.

But, you already knew all that. 😀
 
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It was a fun and challenging sport, both mentally and physically.
I remember a somewhat spectacular failure with a buddy's .357 using 158gr hard cast. It was a full size pig at 100yds. You heard the loud clang of the hit. You saw the bright lead splash centered low on the belly right between the legs. You saw the black metal target tip back, but... not... quite... far enough. Then rock forward and back again only to remain standing.
 
Murtaugh said:
I keep thinking I want a model 29 but it would probably end up being a very expensive dry fire toy or paper weight even if I could find reasonable ammo/brass.
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I say go for it! I'm a S&W fan, and I've got several 29's. If you get one, you'll end up wanting more.

My favorite is my 3" 629. An 'almost-snubby'. Its an absolute pleasure to shoot.

If you're going to shoot 44, handloading is pretty much the only way to do it. 44 mag ammo is almost $1.00 per round normally. Its closer to $2.00 now.
 
georgel said:
It was a fun and challenging sport, both mentally and physically.
I remember a somewhat spectacular failure with a buddy's .357 using 158gr hard cast. It was a full size pig at 100yds. You heard the loud clang of the hit. You saw the bright lead splash centered low on the belly right between the legs. You saw the black metal target tip back, but... not... quite... far enough. Then rock forward and back again only to remain standing.
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Never a IMHSA competitor, but my Max was beating the hell outta Billy's hanging O2 bottles. Not trying to break any land speed records, but a pour of 4227 to the base of a CP 200gr gas check gets me 1500 fps.

I've got some 180gr JHP to play with, but I've got a range to build & a .41 Special to work up a load for, first.
 
Crazy Carl said:
Never a IMHSA competitor, but my Max was beating the hell outta Billy's hanging O2 bottles. Not trying to break any land speed records, but a pour of 4227 to the base of a CP 200gr gas check gets me 1500 fps.

I've got some 180gr JHP to play with, but I've got a range to build & a .41 Special to work up a load for, first.
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Heavy bullets is where it's at with the Max.
 
MCQUADE said:
I love a good .357 but an old 44 makes me warm and fuzzy. I’m still waiting to find a Wolf and Klar model of 1926. I’ve missed a few through the years but I’ll get one before time gets me. I have Sixguns by Keith, both of the Skeeter books that were put out after his death, and a couple of Taffins books if anyone local wants to check them out.
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I recently sold a Wolff & Klar Registered Magnum......it was amazing!!!!! THE top of S&W manufacturing ability.
 
cubrock said:
If the .45 Ruger Blackhawk has been around in the 1920s, we probably would never have had the .44 Mag. Keith would have been well enough pleased with it.
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@BatteryOaksBilly

I assume you disagree (which is okay), but had Keith had a modern .45 that would handle his heavy loads, I doubt he would have experimented with the .44 Special and wound up at the .44 Magnum. I could be wrong. Maybe we will get to ask him someday. :)
 
RedneckFur said:
I say go for it! I'm a S&W fan, and I've got several 29's. If you get one, you'll end up wanting more.

My favorite is my 3" 629. An 'almost-snubby'. Its an absolute pleasure to shoot.

If you're going to shoot 44, handloading is pretty much the only way to do it. 44 mag ammo is almost $1.00 per round normally. Its closer to $2.00 now.
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My favorite of the ones remaining are a 4 inch Blue PRE 29 and a newly acquired 69. These cover bot ends of the 44 mag spectrum. I have a 3 1/2 inch completely restored nickel Triple Lock also. That first great N Frame decked out with burly Sambar Stags is a handsome Old fella. I was given an Elmer Keith Commemorative, the one with the Real Ivory stocks, it is unfired and since it was a gift I'll always have it. When somebody gives you something like that you are required by The Shooter's Code to keep it pristine for the next care taker. I have more so no particular need or want to shoot this one.
The most VIOLENT handgun I own is a 3 1/2 inch Freedom Arms .45....Mike loads for it...300 grainer at 1,600 FPS out of a 16 inch barrel. I haven't asked him what it will do out of the 3 1/2 incher....so far nobody has asked for a more powerful load to shoot in it!!!
 
cubrock said:
@BatteryOaksBilly

I assume you disagree (which is okay), but had Keith had a modern .45 that would handle his heavy loads, I doubt he would have experimented with the .44 Special and wound up at the .44 Magnum. I could be wrong. Maybe we will get to ask him someday. :)
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I absolutely agree and said so back in post #5...he never Wanted a .44, he just got tired blowing up .45s.
 
Also...as to the .44 magnum and .45 Colt loads having separate loads because of strength....do you know why that is???? Sometimes when you have nothing to do measure a S&W cylinder in both calibers and then measure the .44 and .45 cylinders in Blackhawks.....I promise you'll be surprised....the loading strength has nothing to do with the wall thickness between the 2....think about it????
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
I absolutely agree and said so back in post #5...he never Wanted a .44, he just got tired blowing up .45s.
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I missed that. Saw your laughing emoji and thought you didn't. Sorry for the misunderstanding! :)

ETA - Now I see it!
 
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MCQUADE said:
I’m still waiting to find a Wolf and Klar model of 1926.
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This exact gun is up for auction right now. Going off On Rock Island Auction..look at Lot# 3079....This gun is Blue and 4 inches..

BUY IT IF IT WILL BRING YOU ENJOYMENT.....look what it says under my picture...DO NOT WAIT!
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
This exact gun is up for auction right now. Going off On Rock Island Auction..look at Lot# 3079....This gun is Blue and 4 inches..

BUY IT IF IT WILL BRING YOU ENJOYMENT.....look what it says under my picture...DO NOT WAIT!
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Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector Revolver With Factory Letter | Rock Island Auction

Wolf & Klar of Texas Shipped Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector Third Model Double Action Revolver with Factory LetterWith factory letter confirming the current features when shipped to Wolf & Klar Co., Fort Worth, Texas on March 24, 1927.
www.rockislandauction.com www.rockislandauction.com
 
cubrock said:

Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector Revolver With Factory Letter | Rock Island Auction

Wolf & Klar of Texas Shipped Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector Third Model Double Action Revolver with Factory LetterWith factory letter confirming the current features when shipped to Wolf & Klar Co., Fort Worth, Texas on March 24, 1927.
www.rockislandauction.com www.rockislandauction.com
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Thanks SO much...you know I is ignent 'bout puttin' stuff on!!! This looks like a nice old gun. I have several bids in for this auction....wish me Luck!!!!


Uhhhh....make that Good Luck...........some might wish the Other kind👍🙋‍♀️
 
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