Extractors: Innie or outie? A tutorial

[MacEntyre]

It’s like he’s following Gunny around trying to piss on his boots.

He can't piss on Gunny's boots... Gunny's boots have been pissed on by bigger men!

 

[Dirtydirtysouf]

If memory serves me, we fixed your buds delinquent Combat Commander that day after Dremel Dan bubba'ed up the feed ramp.

One of these days, I'm gonna find ol' Dan and when I do, I'm gonna beat on all of his fingers with a hammer.

Yes sir, that was the gun and I think he still has it.

 

[John Travis]

The Para had a guide rod out of spec, as evidenced by the link... it didn't sit well.

I remember now. The butt end was contacting the link and instead of facing it off on the lathe, you decided to just order a new one.

I brought you a Commander and some others that you found nothing wrong with, other'n recoil springs too strong.

Seems that I remember massaging a Commander's barrel ramp a little. If memory serves, the bullet noses were making contact too low on the ramp and pushing the barrel forward enough to cause a 'ka-chunky" feed. That was a long time ago.

 

[B00ger]

The problem I see is that nothing John said was that one is better than the other. Just that both have their reasons to have been used at different times. Claiming one is better than the other due to specific situations doesn't negate that overall both designs are perfectly valid.

And some unsolicited advice: There is a way to make your point and engage in a discussion, even if you disagree. But when you resort to back handed comments disparaging the other your credibility takes a nose dive. I am sure KeepCalm knows a great deal about the platform, and I >know< he knows more than I do. But for many of us, we have sat with John and discussed the 1911, watched him diagnose problems, watch him work magic on small machines that we could never have guessed. So go into any "argument" with him based on the fact that many of us reading his comments know him, know his capabilities, and know is expertise. Attacking it isn't going to come across well, regardless of how righteous you believe you are.

It took me a long time to learn this, and I alienated many a folks in the past due to my inability to accept that something I know isn't exactly so all the time.

 

[John Travis]

The problem I see is that nothing John said was that one is better than the other. Just that both have their reasons to have been used at different times.

Just that and nothing more.

I have a Browning High Power with an external extractor. Doesn't bother me in the least. I don't shoot the gun very much...it's a Belgian High Power in pristine condition...and so doesn't require a lot of maintenance.

When I was burning 30-40,000 rounds a year though my beater 1911s, I was using my own reloads and my own, funky home cast bullets with soft lube and things got all gummed up pretty quickly. I liked the fact that they had extractors that I could remove in 10 seconds...clean them and their channels in 30 seconds...and reinstall in 20, and I didn't have to worry about little pins and springs bouncing off never to be seen again. As I get older, my hands aren't quite as steady as they once were and my eyes could be better...even after cataract surgery.

A matter of convenience and practicality. I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm glad that the US Army insisted on that extractor. One less tedious thing.

That said...and to toot my own horn a little...which I rarely do:

My experience with the gun goes back to 1962, and my practical experience...actually working on it...to 1965. I understand the gun and all its functions. My "area" lies more in diagnosing and correcting malfunctions and I got pretty damn good at it. I may not be the end all/be all when it comes to the pistol, but I can talk 1911s with anyone on the planet.

 

[Charlie]

I have these two in my bag to take to the farm tomorrow. I bet I will have no problems with either of them. Both the S&W, external extractor, and the Kimber, internal extractor, have been problem-free since I got them. I won the Kimber about a decade ago and was given the S&W about the same time. I do not care which type of extractor one has as long as it works. They work. My main Wild Bunch pistol is a Colt Series 70 I got new 48 years ago. It runs like a banshee with the original extractor that has only needed cleaning since it left the factory. I am delighted to hear some of the history behind the decisions made in designing the pistols. I like a pistol to work, and my 1911 pistols with internal or external extractors have all worked well for me. I am quite happy with either version.

 

[John Travis]

They work.

That's the bottom line.

Does it work? Yes? Then, I don't see a problem.

 

[MacEntyre]

... I can talk 1911s with anyone on the planet.

Someone on the planet recently said to me that the 45acp/1911 headspaces on the extractor. I said, no, it headspaces on the case mouth. This was emphatically disputed.

Seems that the case mouth flush up against the end of the chamber on one end, with t'other end flush up against the breechface, is far more effective at headspacing than the extractor loosely hangin' on to one bit of the rim, pretending to hold the whole thing tight against the breechface.

Would you address this, please?

 

[John Travis]

Would you address this, please?

It was designed and intended to headspace on the case mouth. In the instances that it headspaces on the extractor means that somebody cut the chamber too deep.