First Bolt Action Inquiry

ProfMagoo(ret)

ProfMagoo(ret)

Homburg, Belicoso and Cane
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Background to query:
  • 5.56 ARs; JRA M14 (7.62); M&P 15-22 (22LR).
  • Over 20 years in NC: N. Raleigh => WF => ~ Oxford so you get the trend and certainly at some point in the future will be looking for a good bit of land.
  • Haven't been a'hunting, but times might be a'changing.
So thinking about a bolt-action rifle in the varmint/small-game category, perhaps a Howa Hogue or the like in the good-bang-for-bucks section.

Calibre is perhaps the big question: 0.243 Winchester; 25-06; ... ?

School me.
 
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https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/24854/cz-usa+cz+527+american+bolt+65+grendel+24+5+1+turkish+walnut+stock+black

You can buy Wolf ammo for range fun at about $10/box or so or you can buy good Hornady for precession target shooting or hunting for about $20/box.

I am not highly skilled and I can shoot about 1” groups with the Russian crap at 100 yards. Better with Hornady. And out to 300 yards I could kill Bambi if I had to. Probably farther, but have only shot targets to 300. Steel at 350 is boring.

Plus, the answer is always CZ.
 
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I like a CZ as much as anyone who gets one, but Tikka is that little bit better than everything else that isn't a custom build. Vote for you to check out a T3x in whatever flavor suits you. I've got a CTR model in .308 that shoots .5 moa with Federal GMM off the shelf.
 
Timfoilhat said:
I like a CZ as much as anyone who gets one, but Tikka is that little bit better than everything else that isn't a custom build. Vote for you to check out a T3x in whatever flavor suits you. I've got a CTR model in .308 that shoots .5 moa with Federal GMM off the shelf.
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I hear Tikka’s are excellent. Do they have a Grendel?
 
If cost is a deciding factor, look at the Ruger American rifle. Tikka makes a fine rifle as well. But then again you can't go wrong with a Remington 700 based rifle either. There are gazillons of parts, accessories and upgrades for the R700.

There's nothing wrong with the .243WIN either. Choose a light load for varmints or a heavy load for deer (55gr-100gr). 243WIN ammo is available just about anywhere.
 
GreatGazoo said:
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  • Over 20 years in NC: N. Raleigh => WF => ~ Oxford so you get the trend and certainly at some point in the future will be looking for a good bit of land.
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I second that CZ Grendel recommendation.

Let me know when you are ready to build a house on that good bit of land, I can help with that.
 
Varmint/small game caliber- 223 is just fine unless you're planning on 500+yd shots. I'd say have a look at some of the offerings from Savage. The 110 Varmint is a decent gun with detachable box magazine and a good trigger. Regardless, get good glass to go with it.
 
Question is do you reload? Any center fire rifle is really going to work with the correct bullet and shot placement. All boils down to what is available to you, ammo selection and what feels good to you. Oh, and what deal you can make :) I'm not going to make a recommendation as I've haven't bought a new centerfire rifle type since Savages 110 series in the 80s. All my others are based off the old Mauser 98 actions.


CD
 
Agree, run from modern Remington.
Don't rule out buying used, OP. Remington 700 was once the gold standard and used ones from the 60s on up to early 80s are fine game getters with a metric crap ton of aftermarket support.
 
Tikka is a very nice gun.

Maybe one other consideration depending on your mindset- spare parts and support. IF you're thinking of this as a TEOTWAWKI gun, I'd stay domestic and something extremely common. Lots of Mauser 98 actions and goodies out there. Lots of Remington, Winchester, Savage and Ruger stuff too. As stated earlier, avoid any late model Rem700 and know that the triggers have issues. My personal favorite are Savage and Ruger MKII bolt guns. The triggers on Savage are great out of the box and I just like the fit and feel of the Ruger with the tang safety.
 
Dave951 said:
Tikka is a very nice gun.

Maybe one other consideration depending on your mindset- spare parts and support. IF you're thinking of this as a TEOTWAWKI gun, I'd stay domestic and something extremely common. Lots of Mauser 98 actions and goodies out there. Lots of Remington, Winchester, Savage and Ruger stuff too. As stated earlier, avoid any late model Rem700 and know that the triggers have issues. My personal favorite are Savage and Ruger MKII bolt guns. The triggers on Savage are great out of the box and I just like the fit and feel of the Ruger with the tang safety.
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This is the same reason why I still shoot .308. I don't have any concern about being able to find ammo, so long as ammo exists to find. The latest greatest wildcat/Creedmoor etc stuff is great for games, but down the road could be harder to keep fed.
 
Dave951 said:
IF you're thinking of this as a TEOTWAWKI gun, I'd stay domestic and something extremely common.
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Not at all: AR's fill that niche and the M14 if we ever really hit dystopia-city and a truck-load of miscreants come up the drive.

I really am looking for a bolt-action for the sake of having one; acclimatizing to one; learning how to care for one; and possibly filling a calibre-niche between the .223/5.56 and .308 for the if-or-when we finally "move out" as we have been trending c.f. OP (in the normal scheme of things, I have about another 7-years or so before retirement) and might be concerned with varmints and/or small game hunting. I'm vaguely aware that the .223 can be pumped up a bit and the .308 down a bit to cover that domain, but mine are all semi-auto. If I ever want to take the long-range course at FLD, I'd probably have to save up for a specialty rifle and glass and commit to that as a separate art.

Hope this clarifies.

PS and I keep coming back to .243 for the reasons cited above regarding widespread availability.
 
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GreatGazoo said:
Not at all: AR's fill that niche and the M14 if we ever really hit dystopia-city and a truck-load of miscreants come up the drive.

I really am looking for a bolt-action for the sake of having one; acclimatizing to one; learning how to care for one; and possibly filling a calibre-niche between the .223/5.56 and .308 for the if-or-when we finally "move out" as we have been trending c.f. OP (in the normal scheme of things, I have about another 7-years or so before retirement) and might be concerned with varmints and/or small game hunting. I'm vaguely aware that the .223 can be pumped up a bit and the .308 down a bit to cover that domain, but mine are all semi-auto. If I ever want to take the long-range course at FLD, I'd probably have to save up for a specialty rifle and glass and commit to that as a separate art.

Hope this clarifies.
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If you haven’t bought anything by the time this chaos ends you can come to DPRC and shoot my CZ. At the bench the single set trigger is pretty awesome. The normal function isn’t bad either. Heck, this goes on long enough I may have a Tikka too. :p
 
CZfool68 said:
If you haven’t bought anything by the time this chaos ends you can come to DPRC and shoot my CZ. At the bench the single set trigger is pretty awesome. The normal function isn’t bad either. Heck, this goes on long enough I may have a Tikka too. :p
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The set trigger is such a luxury. One of the best things about CZ. That and the wood.
 
Timfoilhat said:
The set trigger is such a luxury. One of the best things about CZ. That and the wood.
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I’ve actually been thinking of buying a synthetic stock for mine, but I’m not gun smith and don’t want to screw it up. Now we have a national emergency and I bought a new fridge so I’ll wait a bit. But I have checked out a few stocks and I think that is how I am going to go at some point. I hate worrying about dinging up the wood.
 
The best bolt rifle for the money as well as the most dependable is a Winchester Pre-1964 Model 70. Expensive yes but the cheapest in the long run. Buy one, use it caringly for your lifetime and when you age out to the point you can no longer hunt sell it for a profit, a big profit.
 
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CZfool68 said:
I’ve actually been thinking of buying a synthetic stock for mine, but I’m not gun smith and don’t want to screw it up. Now we have a national emergency and I bought a new fridge so I’ll wait a bit. But I have checked out a few stocks and I think that is how I am going to go at some point. I hate worrying about dinging up the wood.
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What's to screw up? If the poly stock is made for a CZ of the same model, it should drop right in. I like the fact the Tikka has a poly stock, but I want an adjustable comb so I don't need a stock pack...so I might want a different one too.
Maybe a McMillan or GGS.
 
GreatGazoo said:
To address the question simply, no.
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Reason I asked was availability of loads. I see you are looking at the .243 Win which has long been a standard and easy to find ammo. My longest rifle shooting was with a M14 National Match with irons sights was out to 1000 yds in competition. One thing I noticed was the top M14 shooters were shooting the same scores as the top M24 rifles with 10x scopes at 1000 yds. That brings up another can of worms is the barrel if you want to shoot long range. Most hunting rifles have light weight contours for carrying in the field and generally are warm after couple of rounds. Long range shooters are generally going to be shooting long strings of 6.5 Creedmore, .308 Win and .300 WM. Due to match ammo availability, heavier barrels and rifles availability. Standard loads and guns are going to be cheaper then wildcat or low volume ammo.


CD
 
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Timfoilhat said:
What's to screw up? If the poly stock is made for a CZ of the same model, it should drop right in. I like the fact the Tikka has a poly stock, but I want an adjustable comb so I don't need a stock pack...so I might want a different one too.
Maybe a McMillan or GGS.
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I just have zero faith in ‘drop-in’ anything. Especially with CZ’s. It’s my plan for the worst snd hope for the best mindset I guess. I hear about people bedding and sanding. Scares little ole me.
 
Combat Diver said:
Reason I asked was availability of loads. I see you are looking at the .243 Win which has long been a standard and easy to find ammo. My longest rifle shooting was with a M14 National Match with irons sights was out to 1000 yds in competition. One thing I noticed was the top M14 shooters were shooting the same scores as the top M24 rifles with 10x scopes at 1000 yds. That brings up another can of worms is the barrel if you want to shoot long range. Most hunting rifles have light weight contours for carrying in the field and generally are warm after couple of rounds. Long range shooters are generally going to be shooting long strings of 6.5 Creedmore, .308 Win and .300 WM. Due to match ammo availability, heavier barrels and rifles availability. Standard loads and guns are going to be cheaper then wildcat or low volume ammo.


CD
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Good points. I have a varmint barrel on my CZ since it is basically a bench gun. I could hunt with it, but if I did I would simply carry it to a blind or stand. Not ideal, but it would work. I’d probably tote my 357 mag lever gun if I had to run around the woods and shoot critters.

Hhhhmmmm? Maybe I need another lever gun in a larger caliber? :D
 
Combat Diver said:
Reason I asked was availability of loads. I see you are looking at the .243 Win which has long been a standard and easy to find ammo. My longest rifle shooting was with a M14 National Match with irons sights was out to 1000 yds in competition. One thing I noticed was the top M14 shooters were shooting the same scores as the top M24 rifles with 10x scopes at 1000 yds. That brings up another can of worms is the barrel if you want to shoot long range. Most hunting rifles have light weight contours for carrying in the field and generally are warm after couple of rounds. Long range shooters are generally going to be shooting long strings of 6.5 Creedmore, .308 Win and .300 WM. Due to match ammo availability, heavier barrels and rifles availability. Standard loads and guns are going to be cheaper then wildcat or low volume ammo.
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As above, right now short-medium range acclimation to the weapon type; targeting and learning to use a scope; and possibly hunting. A bolt-action I can grow into and learn with. If/when I'm ready for 1000-yard stuff, and the $, er, optics to go with it, well then ... another thread and off to FLD.

I shoot all my semi-autos over open sights out to 300 yards: not only do I wear (progressive) glasses, but I'm right-handed; left-eye dominant. Heck, maybe I should just buy and train with a LH bolt action and go the Phil Mickelson route (he's right-handed, but plays golf lefty)!
 
GreatGazoo said:
As above, right now short-medium range acclimation to the weapon type; targeting and learning to use a scope; and possibly hunting. A bolt-action I can grow into and learn with. If/when I'm ready for 1000-yard stuff, and the $, er, optics to go with it, well then ... another thread and off to FLD.

I shoot all my semi-autos over open sights out to 300 yards: not only do I wear (progressive) glasses, but I'm right-handed; left-eye dominant. Heck, maybe I should just buy and train with a LH bolt action and go the Phil Mickelson route (he's right-handed, but plays golf lefty)!
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Just to throw a crazy idea out for the cross eye dominance thing, how about a lever action? Doesn’t Marlin have a couple versions that shoot out a little ways with good cartridges like the Hornady Levolution stuff? Won’t get you real long distance but might be fun.
 
CZfool68 said:
Just to throw a crazy idea out for the cross eye dominance thing, how about a lever action? Doesn’t Marlin have a couple versions that shoot out a little ways with good cartridges like the Hornady Levolution stuff? Won’t get you real long distance but might be fun.
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A good idea: I'd probably blow it, though, by trying to play The Rifleman!! I have a hard enough time not whistling the James Bond theme when shooting my Bersa Thunder 380! :oops:
 
CZfool68 said:
Just to throw a crazy idea out for the cross eye dominance thing, how about a lever action? Doesn’t Marlin have a couple versions that shoot out a little ways with good cartridges like the Hornady Levolution stuff? Won’t get you real long distance but might be fun.
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I do spy a Henry Long Ranger in .243 Win that looks rather sexy.
 
If you fancy something a little out of the ordinary, with some cool factor, there is an apparently very nice Steyr for sale in the classifieds here. The price is good for this model.

I have a Steyr SBS Tactical in .308 (same action design), and it is a really nice rifle with some features unique to Steyr. They make a fine bolt gun. I'm pretty sure you can still get the high-capacity conversion kits and mags for the Pro Hunter, too, if you wanted to bump your capacity up to 10+1. Not cheap, but available.

I don't know what it is with me and Austrian stuff. Steyr, Glock, KTM motorcycles.......I likes 'em.
 
If I was planning on buying a new bolt action rifle soon it would be a Savage. Some of the most accurate factory rifles I've ever shot were Savages.
 
You also might want to at least consider the Bergara lines. Either the Wilderness HMR or the B14 HMR (HMR = Hunting and Match Rifle) should be excellent hunting rifles:

https://www.bergara.online/en/rifles/wilderness-series/wilderness-HMR/

https://www.bergara.online/en/rifles/b14/hmr-rifle/

Bergara uses a Remington 700 type action, so all the aftermarket R700 goodies should fit. And unless they have changed in the last year or two, the factory triggers are adjustable and are actually made by Timney. They are also guaranteed to be sub-MOA accurate out of the box, and every one I have shot has grouped fantastically with good ammo. IMHO, any decent rifle should be capable of shooting at 1MOA out of the box, but Bergara at least comes right out and guarantees it. They also have great customer service if you have an issue.
 
I may be old fashioned and am not quite as concerned with super long range shooting, but I have always been partial to the CRF M70 Winchesters. They just feel right to me.
 
GreatGazoo said:
I do spy a Henry Long Ranger in .243 Win that looks rather sexy.
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Umm, er, I think this thread might be headed over to the OK Corral for a New Gun Day post next week (if all goes well). :oops:

Thanks to CZfool68 for the lever gun suggestion. If you're up Oxford way, you'll have to let me know and pop a few rounds "out back."
 
GreatGazoo said:
Umm, er, I think this thread might be headed over to the OK Corral for a New Gun Day post next week (if all goes well). :oops:

Thanks to CZfool68 for the lever gun suggestion. If you're up Oxford way, you'll have to let me know and pop a few rounds "out back."
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I might just take you up on that. My new 357 mag has not been shot yet. Might hit the range next week when I get a chance.
 
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