First shots of the p320 in military duty...wow

Love2shoot

Love2shoot

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So I found this on YouTube, apparently the first group to get and shoot the new p320. This video displays some HORRIBLE marksmanship. I'm no tackdriver, but arent these guys supposed to be familiar with handgun shooting? No dis respect to our armed forces, but what went wrong here? The grips are horrible, tea cups, some guys actually look afraid of the gun. Or maybe because it's a p320 they actually are :)

 
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holy crap that was ugly...those guys are Airborne too.
 
Tim said:
holy crap that was ugly...those guys are Airborne too.
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No the 101st hasn't been "Airborne" since 1968, they are only allowed to keep the airborne tab for heraldry of the division. Believe me it has always been a point of contention with the 82nd.

Unless something has changed since I was in, the only personnel issued pistols in an infantry unit are the M240 gunners and officers, and officers are too busy "officering" than getting trigger time. Not everyone gets a pistol. Now again things may have changed.
 
When I had to first qualify on pistol, my original TO&E weapon before we got the M4, we had half a day instruction followed by qualifying in the afternoon. That was it. Now, when I got attached to recon and I had the 1911, we shot all. The. Time. Not just shooting for shooting's sake, but with quality remediation and instruction. But most people who get the pistol, they get a couple hours of "instruction" and have to qualify.
 
Chuckman said:
When I had to first qualify on pistol, my original TO&E weapon before we got the M4, we had half a day instruction followed by qualifying in the afternoon. That was it. Now, when I got attached to recon and I had the 1911, we shot all. The. Time. Not just shooting for shooting's sake, but with quality remediation and instruction. But most people who get the pistol, they get a couple hours of "instruction" and have to qualify.
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I checked in to my first Battalion on a Friday afternoon. I think it was the following Tuesday someone told me to go to the armory, get a pistol issued and take it the qual range that was going on that day. Zero instruction whatsoever. Luckily I grew up shooting and had plenty of experience with pistols already.
 
Derek8404 said:
I checked in to my first Battalion on a Friday afternoon. I think it was the following Tuesday someone told me to go to the armory, get a pistol issued and take it the qual range that was going on that day. Zero instruction whatsoever. Luckily I grew up shooting and had plenty of experience with pistols already.
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As bad as the half-mag of fam fire at FMSS.....
 
Chuckman said:
As bad as the half-mag of fam fire at FMSS.....
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There was that; which consisted of lining up and going up the firing line when it was your turn and picking up an extremely hot M4 and M9 that had been sitting in the sun all day and dumping a few rounds into a pallet that was about 10yds out.
 
Derek8404 said:
I checked in to my first Battalion on a Friday afternoon. I think it was the following Tuesday someone told me to go to the armory, get a pistol issued and take it the qual range that was going on that day. Zero instruction whatsoever. Luckily I grew up shooting and had plenty of experience with pistols already.
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Yep, I had a pistol for TPI classified material transport. My experience was exactly the same as yours. The only thing that was different was they scored us for badges but there was no training.

I shot expert but only because I shot pistols a lot growing up but I was tea cup trained with one eye closed and because it was all stationary shooting.



Now when I got assigned to prisoner transport once that was a joke. Checked out a shotgun, went to the range and had to fire 5 rounds and hit a man sized target at 10 yards. That was it, get in the van and guard the prisoner.
 
Derek8404 said:
There was that; which consisted of lining up and going up the firing line when it was your turn and picking up an extremely hot M4 and M9 that had been sitting in the sun all day and dumping a few rounds into a pallet that was about 10yds out.
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I don't know where you went to FMSS; I was at Pendleton. It was a quarter-inch talcum-like dirt and dust. We had to shoot the M16 prone, and God help you if you kicked up any dust when you got up.....

But yeah, the target was a standard mil-issue target at about 10 yards. It was a waste of time. One of the guys in the platoon bitched that it took him hours to clean a rifle that he shot for less than 10 seconds; he was the only guy to got incentive PT during the entirety of FMSS, our Marine tac (SSGT. Barnard) PT'd the shit out of him. Later in private, some of us told SSGT. Barnard he had a point; it WAS stupid. He said the reason he PT'd the guy was because he called him out in public, but he agreed, and tried to get the fam fire changed to a different program of instruction.

Fam fire and the hours of cleaning weps was one of the things I hated the most about FMSS.
 
Chuckman said:
I don't know where you went to FMSS; I was at Pendleton. It was a quarter-inch talcum-like dirt and dust. We had to shoot the M16 prone, and God help you if you kicked up any dust when you got up.....

But yeah, the target was a standard mil-issue target at about 10 yards. It was a waste of time. One of the guys in the platoon bitched that it took him hours to clean a rifle that he shot for less than 10 seconds; he was the only guy to got incentive PT during the entirety of FMSS, our Marine tac (SSGT. Barnard) PT'd the shit out of him. Later in private, some of us told SSGT. Barnard he had a point; it WAS stupid. He said the reason he PT'd the guy was because he called him out in public, but he agreed, and tried to get the fam fire changed to a different program of instruction.

Fam fire and the hours of cleaning weps was one of the things I hated the most about FMSS.
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At least you didn't hit your selector off of safe with a strap (unbeknowst to me) at MCT during a force march,and have one of the instructors see it.

At final formation that night, exhausted and desperately wanting to rack out, and assuming the ass chewing and subsequent PTing that I did on the side of the road was sufficient I was understandably surprised when I was called out of formation and handed an etool.

I had to dig a 3 foot deep grave and bury my rifle in the sand with the bolt back and dust cover open, say a prayer and stand over it until formation broke. Then I was allowed to dig it back up and clean it well enough to pass inspection before I could rack out. 3 hours later I finally passed.

Good times.
 
Chuckman said:
I don't know where you went to FMSS; I was at Pendleton. It was a quarter-inch talcum-like dirt and dust. We had to shoot the M16 prone, and God help you if you kicked up any dust when you got up.....

But yeah, the target was a standard mil-issue target at about 10 yards. It was a waste of time. One of the guys in the platoon bitched that it took him hours to clean a rifle that he shot for less than 10 seconds; he was the only guy to got incentive PT during the entirety of FMSS, our Marine tac (SSGT. Barnard) PT'd the shit out of him. Later in private, some of us told SSGT. Barnard he had a point; it WAS stupid. He said the reason he PT'd the guy was because he called him out in public, but he agreed, and tried to get the fam fire changed to a different program of instruction.

Fam fire and the hours of cleaning weps was one of the things I hated the most about FMSS.
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I went to FMSS at Camp Johnson, and it was pretty much the same thing, except it there wasn't even a target there, they literally had us shoot a pallet.
 
Another example of the waste of money going into this "system" when there was nothing wrong with the M9 as a general issue sidearm.
 
Jeremy2171 said:
Another example of the waste of money going into this "system" when there was nothing wrong with the M9 as a general issue sidearm.
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Ikarus1 said:
FIFY
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Well as much as I like the 1911 I could argue more FOR the M9.

NATO common ammo
15 rounds
The last 1911 was made 40 years before the M9 was adopted so they were wore out

I've carried both.. I like them both...but this isn't the 1911 vs M9 vs P320 fight :)
 
I did some instruction for Navy personnel deploying from Ft Jackson at one point; those who were NOT qualifying on the M9 (meaning they weren’t assigned one) fired one 15 round familiarization fire magazine and went off the line.

However, there was significant classroom instruction as well as dry fire exercises and we always were available for instruction/questions etc. Qualification consisted of table 1 and table 3.

As far as the video, pictures of the 82nd posted in the veterans corner doing M4 marksmanship didn’t look much better
 
I've seen a lot of great rifle shooters that couldn't hit a c zone from 3 feet away with a pistol. They just didn't use one in the military and don't use one much now!
 
There is not much range time for soldiers. Typically the only ones with pistols are heavy gunners, medics and officers.
101st Had atleast 3 Airborne units left 5th Group SF, Pathfinders and Long Range Surveillance. LRSD is no gone. 101st was converted over to Air Assault.
 
Derek8404 said:
Guys in regular units get very little, if any handgun training, so it’s really not surprising l.
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I was enlisted as a 55B and don't recall any formal handgun instruction on active or reserve time. In fact, I recall shooting a handgun maybe one or two times and it wasn't part of any formal qualification. Probably just burning ammo so we didn't need to carry it. Ha.
 
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Most Army enlisted are never issued a pistol. If our BRM training is lacking, imagine how awesome our pistol training isn't? I was a SSG before I ever fired an M9 & a SFC before I was issued one & qualified with it. I qual'd Expert with the damned thing, but received little to no actual training beforehand.

I can't imagine too much has changed.
 
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xRHINOx said:
There is not much range time for soldiers. Typically the only ones with pistols are heavy gunners, medics and officers.
101st Had atleast 3 Airborne units left 5th Group SF, Pathfinders and Long Range Surveillance. LRSD is no gone. 101st was converted over to Air Assault.
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5th SFG(A) is NOT part of the 101st. They only share the same installation. Spent 14 yrs at Ft Campbell with 5th. Army has mentioned issued the M17 down to team leaders. There are two team leaders and the squad leader per squad, 4 squads per platoon, etc. Interesting to see the new indoor range in the video.

CD
 
Derek8404 said:
Guys in regular units get very little, if any handgun training, so it’s really not surprising l.
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During my app 13 years (active duty, reserves, and national guard) i had never fired, nor been issued a sidearm. My mos was infantry (11B and 11H).
 
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"The grips are horrible, tea cups, some guys actually look afraid of the gun. Or maybe because it's a p320 they actually are :)"

I used to give guys a hard time for using the teacup grip saying that it went out with "Starsky and Hutch" in the 70's, until I saw a golf instructor from California use the teacup grip to win "Top Shots".
 
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I was a senior in high school, my neighbor, who was also a history teacher and vice principal at my high school, was retired army, almost all of it in Special Forces. He was trying hard to recruit me to go into the army and into Special Forces. He would take me to Bragg almost every month to see friends, he took me down for the Gabriel demonstration, he would take me to Camp McCall, what a great great man. He still had friends and the 5th group around that time.
 
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If this is just a unit that just got them in and everyone is getting to try them before they put them in the armory for a long time that would explain a lot.

Almost NO ONE has a side arm in the military now and they almost never get shot. Other then Staff level officers and MP's almost no one else really uses them and quals.

The old M9 are junk now and getting a new side arm like the P320 is a great move for those that do carry them. All the new innovations that have come out sense the M9 was fielded is what is going to make this a great weapon for field uses.

Also remember that the military now a days are one of the biggest anti 2nd group out there.
 
Love2shoot said:
Really?
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You can not carry on any base "even if you live on them." Most bases make you register all personal weapons. Some units make you even lock all personal weapons in the units armory. If you are luck to have them in your home and live on base then you can only take them from house to range then home or from home to off base and back home. No where else. If you are have a weapon on you or in your car any place else then it can be a criminal charge.
 
That's why I don't shoot at mckellars lodge anymore. All weapons registered with the PMO. Weapon and ammunition in separate areas of vehicle during transport.
 
And they keep that data on hand and share it with other posts. After I retired in 08' was working on Ft Riley KS for two weeks in 13'. Took a .22LR pistol with me to go to the range on the long weekend while I was there. Had to go to the PM office with it and they had 3 pages of guns I had registered during my career on several bases. I had sold most of those guns whittled that list down to 3 guns. Defenders of the Constitution are second class citizens as we forgo most of our rights on Federal bases.

CD
 
325rto said:
During my app 13 years (active duty, reserves, and national guard) i had never fired, nor been issued a sidearm. My mos was infantry (11B and 11H).
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I was issued an M9 for about 18 months including 14 of those in Iraq
 
scottr said:
You can not carry on any base "even if you live on them." Most bases make you register all personal weapons. Some units make you even lock all personal weapons in the units armory. If you are luck to have them in your home and live on base then you can only take them from house to range then home or from home to off base and back home. No where else. If you are have a weapon on you or in your car any place else then it can be a criminal charge.
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Even if you live off-post and have a CCW for that state and happen to drive through post to take a drunk soldier home so he doesn't drive (open post back in the 90's) and get stopped at a check point and inform them per NC CCW law, the PMO will still try to push for a violation of Article 92.

I know from experience dude.

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