German Drilling - W. Collath

Discussion in 'Appraisals - What's this worth?' started by Ben Jefferson, Dec 2, 2019 at 2:09 PM.

  1. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    shotgun_SIGHTACTRETRACTED.JPG shotgun_RSIDE.JPG

    I'm having fits with images, please bear with me. More to come!
     

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  2. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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  3. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    shotgun_LSIDE.JPG
     

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  4. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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    Is this a double 16 ga with a rifle barrel under them? Rifle likely a 7x72mm.


    @Ben Jefferson
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 3:26 PM
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  5. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    Dude, you should be on Jeopardy! 7x72 is correct. I understand Collath developed the superior lock-up system utilized in his drillings. I am having trouble with imagery at the moment but I would like to get a basic idea of the value. I realize that, like women, it's in the eye of the beholder!

    Yessir, as far as I know it's from the mid to late 1800s. I have never fired it (yes skeeered). In fact I really have no use for keeping it as I am not so much a collector as an enthusiast.
     
  6. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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  7. ronn47

    ronn47 Where's the Scotch? Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

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    Take it down to Mid South Guns in Wagram, NC and have Phil look at it for you.

    If you've never been there it is well worth the trip.
     
  8. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    TRUTH!!!!!!!! Tell him The Battery Oaks folks said hell-o.
     
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  9. Jeppo

    Jeppo Very LARGE Member Supporting Member

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    Leave your wallet at home. ;)
     
  10. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I've no idea what it's worth but it would look great hanging on my wall.
     
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  11. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    I will Jeppo, I will just take plastic cards!
     
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  12. ronn47

    ronn47 Where's the Scotch? Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

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    And that little wad of cash she don't know about.
     
  13. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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    She is a beauty and I wish I could offer you what it is worth but alas it is above my pay grade.
     
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  14. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    I may be wrong but I anticipate this girl is cleaner and being non-restored I would imagine a bit more valued. It's easy to over-value your own stuff though!
     
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  15. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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    No sir. I believe you are correct. Yours looks to be in very good shape depending on what the bores look like. I could swing the $978. I just don't think I could go what it is really worth. Good luck with it if you sell it.
     
  16. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    Cash will save you money with Phillip...….
     
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  17. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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  18. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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  19. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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    @Ben Jefferson

    Found this and thought you might find it interesting. This lists a rifle of a different caliber.

    "This W. Collath drilling is of the under lever design. It is 16 ga. x 16 ga. & 11 x 65mm. The bores are in excellent condition, shinny with no evidence of rust or corrosion and the 11mm bore has deep, sharp rifling. The 11x65 is the 11.15x65R LK Express aka 11mm Teschner aka 11.2x65R Collath. A cartridge of many names, though most people like Burgsmueller 1910 simply called it the "11x65R Drillingspatrone". Apparently it was reasonably popular in the 1890s, but about 1900 it was quickly outmoded by the 9.3x72R. The blue finish on the 28” barrels is in very good condition (90% +). There are some small areas of light pitting on the barrels (mostly left side) and on close inspection a very slight dent on the left side about 5” from the muzzle. The operating lever, the pistol grip cap and the trigger guard are carved from dark brown horn or antler. We think the pistol grip stock and fore stock is European walnut and has a very dark finish. There is some light freckling of the finish on the left side just behind the frame and just below the cheek piece. There is also a slight crack visible on the left side just into the checkering. There are some light bruises but no gouges. The highly engraved frame, tangs and nose cap appear to be silver plated. It has the original sling swivels. The only thing not original is the butt plate and recoil pad made by White Line. Mechanically everything seems to be fully functional. This Drilling has Wilhelm Collath's barrel selector, the little lever on the right front of the trigger guard. In the forward position the rifle barrel is selected and the rifle sight is raised. This selector was patented by Wilhelm Collath in Firma G. Teschner & Co., Frankfurt a. Oder on April 1, 1887, DRP # 41040, so the Drilling cannot have made before that. The butterfly shaped knob on the tang is the safety selector. Modern 16 ga. cartridges do not fit in this gun. The "C.4" marking relates to the special numbering of the Teschner needle fire shot cartridges. #4 is 16 gauge, but the thin-paper Teschner cartridges had other chamber dimensions than the usual thick-paper Schneider-Daw type cases we are used to. The German Gun Collectors Association has advised us that they believe this drilling was made 1887 to 1895. Overall this is a very nice drilling, we rate it NRA Fine.

    The Company was founded in 1838 by the master gun maker Georg Teschner. Collath joined Teschner in 1855. Wilhelm Collath was born Feb. 25th, 1838 and came to Frankfurt on Oder (a city southeast of Berlin, not the better known to Americans Frankfurt on Main) at age 21 to join the Teschner Company. Starting as a "helper", he was promoted to shop master, then production manager and partner. A factory was built at Crossener Str. 27. On Teschner´s death in 1875 Collath became sole owner of the company. Subsequently he enlarged the factory and the business. From 1881 to 1899 he obtained 8 patents. Collath was the inventor of a bolting system that had a lever under the forend, connected to an eccentric bolt that forced the barrel back against the standing breech of the action and pulled the barrel down to the action flat. By 1904 the company made about 1000 guns each year. Wilhelm Collath died at age 68 on June 21, 1906. His sons Franz and Paul Collath took over and a new ammunition factory was built, making and loading Tesco (from Teschner-Collath) composite lead and Collath copper jacket bullets. Before 1914 the 20,000 th. Collath gun was delivered. During WW 1 Collath made mostly flare pistols and scope mounts, just like Holland &Holland did in WW 2. After 1918 the work force dropped in numbers from 120 to 5 employees. The firm was still in business in the 1920s with the name G. Teschner & Co and a government proof house existed in Frankfurt an der Oder to proof their guns. After a slight recovery the company went out of business in 1945 at the end to WW 2. (History & technical data courtesy of the German Gun Collectors Assn.) "
     
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  20. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    Thank you sir!

    Very interesting.

    I appreciate your efforts.
     
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  21. ronn47

    ronn47 Where's the Scotch? Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

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  22. nchunt101

    nchunt101 Member Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Best gunshop in the state.
     
  23. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    If you are coming to the Winston show the 12/14-12/15, I'd love to see it. If you aren't coming, don't make a special trip on my account. :)
     
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  24. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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    But you ain't gonna try and talk him out of coming if he really wants to are ya?????
    I with you on that one. I would love to fondl ahh I mean inspect that one. Just wish I had the funds to offer him what it is worth. :(
     
  25. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Nope. Wouldn't try to talk him out of selling it, either. :D
     
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  26. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    Since I have not been to a show since I have moved back to NC I will show up to be an PIA to folks that listen to my ramblings. I take it there's a CFF table somewhere. Who's working the booth? What's the best time to minimize the lines?
     
  27. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    No CFF booth at this one. I'll have my own set of tables and there is usually an assortment of forum members who wander through and say hi. Hard to say the best time to avoid lines during this time of year, but I'd say by 2-ish, there isn't much chance of a line.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 3:06 PM
  28. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    Okay then, I will get up with you as to your location. I ask about lines bc my back is shot and I don't do lines well any more. I'm getting old and wimpy!

    Look fwd to meeting you!
     
  29. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Likewise. We'll have a chair for you to take a load off.
     
  30. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Not even gonna give the rest of us a chance at it are you?
     
  31. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Winston show isn't for a week and a half. You have plenty of time to PM him and sneak it out from under me. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 3:49 PM
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  32. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    Chance at?
     
  33. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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    He's talking about a chance to buy the gun.
     
  34. Ben Jefferson

    Ben Jefferson Active Member Supporting Member

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    Got it, was asleep at the wheel!
     
  35. Schattenreiter

    Schattenreiter Member

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    Been there, done that, think I got a T-shirt somewhere. ;)
     
  36. teamglock2002

    teamglock2002 Member Life Member

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    Cherry's Fine Gun's, They are in greensboro I believe. They can appraise it for you. When I worked at Archdale Ammo we had a Drilling but I don't know if it was a Collath or not. That's a beautiful gun you have @Ben Jefferson .
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 9:37 AM
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