GRNC Update Re: Sheriff Baker

mhuxtable

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http://paracom.paramountcommunicati...c670ee88ad77124f854&ei=s9e2wJ-Ng&st=19-JUL-20

Said Grass Roots North Carolina president Paul Valone:
“Grass Roots North Carolina will sue Sheriff Baker and Wake County as many times as it takes to ensure that handgun permits are reliably issued to North Carolina citizens in compliance with their civil rights and North Carolina law.
“Furthermore, under a ‘Monell claim,’ Sheriff Baker, because he is currently under a consent decree requiring him to issue handgun permits, is unilaterally and unlawfully making public policy by his continued refusal to issue permits in a timely fashion as stipulated in G.S. §14-404(f). Accordingly, his actions could create legal liability not only for the sheriff, but for Wake County, which has a duty to relieve Baker from office if he insists on violating the law.”
What Baker said
GRNC contacted the attorney for Sheriff Gerald Baker, Nick Ellis of Poyner Spruill, LLC, to inform him that despite being under a consent order, Baker continues to drag his feet on issuance of both pistol purchase permits and concealed handgun permits. After our press release last week, complaints flooded the GRNC office of purchase permits taking nearly two months to process, despite the fact that the statute listed above requires purchase permits to be issued or denied in 14 days, further stipulating that permits may only be denied for statutorily permissible reasons.
First, Ellis tried to dodge, asking GRNC for the names of complainants. We played this game the last time, when Baker issued permits to the litigant in Stafford v. Baker and to one other potential litigant, and then continued to thumb his nose at other applicants. Not this time. We have instead demanded that to avoid litigation, Baker instead respond with exactly how he will change procedures to issue permits in a timely fashion.
Instead of complying, Baker and his lawyer complained of the number of applications being submitted during the current national civil unrest, claiming the sheriff is doing an “excellent job” in issuing permits. When it was pointed out that the statute requires permits be issued in 14 days, Baker’s attorney responded: “…the 14 days doesn’t start until ALL of the information needed to process an application has been provided or obtained.”
Since Baker is putting applicants in nearly permanent limbo to come into the office to finish the application they started online, Baker’s response is essentially: “The 14 days required for applications doesn’t start until we give you an appointment to let you finish the application, which we won’t. So bug off.”

Wake County is complicit in Baker’s malfeasance:
  • Wake County is obligated to remove Baker: Under G.S. §128-16, the county is essentially required to begin proceedings in Superior Court, with the county attorney acting as prosecutors for, among other things, “willful or habitual neglect or refusal to perform the duties of his office.”
  • Citizens’ constitutional rights are being violated: It is unlawful for citizens to buy handguns without either a pistol purchase permit or concealed handgun permit from their county of residence, meaning that Baker’s actions are denying citizens’ rights not only to keep and bear arms, but to protect their families at a time of national crisis when personal safety is very much in question.
  • Wake County is responsible: Under these circumstances, the Supreme Court, in Monell v. Department of Social Services, determined that the county can be held liable for the misdeeds of Baker, whether or not they officially sanction those misdeeds.
 
CBS 17 is reporting King Baker and court saying they are “doing the best they can” ... https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-ne...and-for-permits-in-wake-county-unprecedented/ ... and processing the PPP’s in the order they came in.

Also CBS 17 visited Clay at FGG ... he does not weigh in on PPP’s but give a kinda state of the industry report about how politics, riots and C-19 started this market shift along with the supply, prices, volume, etc hefts and at the end makes very scary statement ... “It’s not this best time to buy a gun but it could be worse tomorrow”. Clay has a lot of insight and hears things ... and for him to that is kinda scary.
 
It's not just Wake. My SIL and BIL live in Greensboro. They have both recently finished their concealed carry classes. They called the sheriff, and were given an appointment date for fingerprinting... IN APRIL 2021... REALLY?!?

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My wife stopped by the Davidson County sheriff's dept. last week middle of October for her.
 
You would think that because he's not using the deputies to protect folks during the riots he could shift some over to the permit section to clear up the back log.
 
Anyone have ANY doubt where Baker stands in the political field?? Remember that come November....
November 2022 he has 2 more years to screw Wake Co law enforcement up.

For all you Wake Co residents make sure you apply for renewal as soon as you can (per NCGS statutes If you are RENEWING a Concealed Handgun Permit, you MUST apply prior to your expiration date, but no more than 90 days prior to the expiration date) because if you submit your paperwork for renewal after your CHP expires you have to apply as a new applicant ... the class requirement can be waived up to 60 days after expiration but just 1 day after means new fingerprints so you’ve got to deal with that crap of an appoint for fingerprinting also.
 
November 2022 he has 2 more years to screw Wake Co law enforcement up.

For all you Wake Co residents make sure you apply for renewal as soon as you can (per NCGS statutes If you are RENEWING a Concealed Handgun Permit, you MUST apply prior to your expiration date, but no more than 90 days prior to the expiration date) because if you submit your paperwork for renewal after your CHP expires you have to apply as a new applicant ... the class requirement can be waived up to 60 days after expiration but just 1 day after means new fingerprints so you’ve got to deal with that crap of an appoint for fingerprinting also.



Side note on this. If you apply in a timely fashion it does not matter if it expires prior to you getting the renewal. Your permit is still valid (except for purchases I believe). Also the sheriff is required by law (unless that has changed) to notify you in writing a period of time before your expiration date. Anyone not receiving this notice should make it known.


After thought on the fingerprints. I was told sometime in the past on a renewal that my fingerprints were now digital and I would never need to be printed again. Has this changed?????
 
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Your permit is still valid (except for purchases I believe).
Correct...can’t use an expired carry permit to purchase, as it has exceeded the 5-year period in the Brady Bill.
 
Side note on this. If you apply in a timely fashion it does not matter if it expires prior to you getting the renewal. Your permit is still valid (except for purchases I believe). Also the sheriff is required by law (unless that has changed) to notify you in writing a period of time before your expiration date. Anyone not receiving this notice should make it known.


After thought on the fingerprints. I was told sometime in the past on a renewal that my fingerprints were now digital and I would never need to be printed again. Has this changed?????

Not sure if notice is a law. I had to go thru the whole process again after mine expired. I was in sheriff office 6 months before it expired to get address changed and they would not let me renew it then. Said they would send a letter. New sheriff comes, changes policy not to send notices.

On the finger prints- not sure but a buddy of mine has brewery and every time he changes or modifies his lic. they print him again. Might have just got it done last week, but they do it every time
 
It's good to see them trying to hold him accountable, but what's the actual outcome here?

They're talk of court action, but I'm assuming the court will just dismiss any charges because of the 'rona and they're certainly not going to remove one of their own from power. So other than hassling the guy... is this just to keep the permits moving at all lest he just stop all together until things are "back to normal"?

I still gave GRNC a little cash this month, because even if they're just hassling the guy with no real outcome it's more than I could do, and someone has to keep these dbags from having it too easy.
 
Anyone have ANY doubt where Baker stands in the political field?? Remember that come November....

I read this around here, it seems daily... Who on this forum is voting for this guy or any of the other ones we've supposed to remember in November anyway? Not that there are better options for candidates anymore either... I've seen veto-proof Repuglican majorities voted in on the state and federal level with matching Gov/Pres, and they accomplish nothing while in office. Please tell me why this one is different...
 
I read this around here, it seems daily... Who on this forum is voting for this guy or any of the other ones we've supposed to remember in November anyway? Not that there are better options for candidates anymore either... I've seen veto-proof Repuglican majorities voted in on the state and federal level with matching Gov/Pres, and they accomplish nothing while in office. Please tell me why this one is different...
Accomplishing nothing is better than enacting a sh*tload of stuff we don’t want. Accomplishing nothing would be a vast improvement IMHO!
 
It's not just Wake. My SIL and BIL live in Greensboro. They have both recently finished their concealed carry classes. They called the sheriff, and were given an appointment date for fingerprinting... IN APRIL 2021... REALLY?!?

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If its anything like Wake was a few years ago. You can show up to the office and fill out the application on site, when you get to the fingerprinting part it will give you an option for "right now" or something like that. I did it the same week my friends booked a fingerprint appointment 3 months out. Also for anyone in Wake if the downstairs computers are busy you can ask and I used a computer upstairs away from everyone it was nice.
 
Accomplishing nothing is better than enacting a sh*tload of stuff we don’t want. Accomplishing nothing would be a vast improvement IMHO!

Yeah, that's a great goal... Rally the voters every November in the hopes that every few years we can do nothing...
 
Yeah, that's a great goal... Rally the voters every November in the hopes that every few years we can do nothing...
The point is, we have to do what we can with what we have to work with. Staying home will not make it better. Would I like better choices? Sure! Show them to me. WFB said he would vote for the most conservative candidate that could get elected. Works for me.
 
Not sure if notice is a law. I had to go thru the whole process again after mine expired. I was in sheriff office 6 months before it expired to get address changed and they would not let me renew it then. Said they would send a letter. New sheriff comes, changes policy not to send notices.

On the finger prints- not sure but a buddy of mine has brewery and every time he changes or modifies his lic. they print him again. Might have just got it done last week, but they do it every time



It is.
so says the statute. Highlights in red by me.

§ 14-415.16. Renewal of permit.

(a) At least 45 days prior to the expiration date of a permit, the sheriff of the county where the permit was issued shall send a written notice to the permittee explaining that the permit is about to expire and including information about the requirements for renewal of the permit. The notice shall be sent by first class mail to the last known address of the permittee. Failure to receive a renewal notice shall not relieve a permittee of requirements imposed in this section for renewal of the permit.

(b) The holder of a permit shall apply to renew the permit within the 90-day period prior to its expiration date by filing with the sheriff of the county in which the person resides a renewal form provided by the sheriff's office, an affidavit stating that the permittee remains qualified under the criteria provided in this Article, a newly administered full set of the permittee's fingerprints, and a renewal fee.

(c) Upon receipt of the completed renewal application and the appropriate payment of fees, the sheriff shall determine if the permittee remains qualified to hold a permit in accordance with the provisions of G.S. 14-415.12. The permittee's criminal history shall be updated, including with another inquiry of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and the sheriff may waive the requirement of taking another firearms safety and training course. If the permittee applies for a renewal of the permit within the 90-day period prior to its expiration date and if the permittee remains qualified to have a permit under G.S. 14-415.12, the sheriff shall renew the permit. The permit of a permittee who complies with this section shall remain valid beyond the expiration date of the permit until the permittee either receives a renewal permit or is denied a renewal permit by the sheriff.

(d) No fingerprints shall be required for a renewal permit if the applicant's fingerprints were submitted to the State Bureau of Investigation after June 30, 2001, on the Automated Fingerprint Information System (AFIS) as prescribed by the State Bureau of Investigation.

(e) If the permittee does not apply to renew the permit prior to its expiration date, but does apply to renew the permit within 60 days after the permit expires, the sheriff may waive the requirement of taking another firearms safety and training course. This subsection does not extend the expiration date of the permit. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, s. 22.2(b); 2000-140, s. 103; 2000-191, s. 1; 2009-307, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 18.)
 
People on reddit have mentioned more open carry in the area. I suspect it's driven by the long waits for CHPS.
 
The point is, we have to do what we can with what we have to work with. Staying home will not make it better. Would I like better choices? Sure! Show them to me. WFB said he would vote for the most conservative candidate that could get elected. Works for me.

Meh... Just prolonging the inevitable at that rate... Really no point in trying anymore... Defeatist? Sure. At least it's honest ..
 
By law you get the notice to renew in the mail, my letter said they are contacting me 'as a courtesy'. Sure they are. Edit: Donny Harrison was Wake Sheriff.
 
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It is.
so says the statute. Highlights in red by me.

§ 14-415.16. Renewal of permit.

(a) At least 45 days prior to the expiration date of a permit, the sheriff of the county where the permit was issued shall send a written notice to the permittee explaining that the permit is about to expire and including information about the requirements for renewal of the permit. The notice shall be sent by first class mail to the last known address of the permittee. Failure to receive a renewal notice shall not relieve a permittee of requirements imposed in this section for renewal of the permit.

(b) The holder of a permit shall apply to renew the permit within the 90-day period prior to its expiration date by filing with the sheriff of the county in which the person resides a renewal form provided by the sheriff's office, an affidavit stating that the permittee remains qualified under the criteria provided in this Article, a newly administered full set of the permittee's fingerprints, and a renewal fee.

(c) Upon receipt of the completed renewal application and the appropriate payment of fees, the sheriff shall determine if the permittee remains qualified to hold a permit in accordance with the provisions of G.S. 14-415.12. The permittee's criminal history shall be updated, including with another inquiry of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and the sheriff may waive the requirement of taking another firearms safety and training course. If the permittee applies for a renewal of the permit within the 90-day period prior to its expiration date and if the permittee remains qualified to have a permit under G.S. 14-415.12, the sheriff shall renew the permit. The permit of a permittee who complies with this section shall remain valid beyond the expiration date of the permit until the permittee either receives a renewal permit or is denied a renewal permit by the sheriff.

(d) No fingerprints shall be required for a renewal permit if the applicant's fingerprints were submitted to the State Bureau of Investigation after June 30, 2001, on the Automated Fingerprint Information System (AFIS) as prescribed by the State Bureau of Investigation.

(e) If the permittee does not apply to renew the permit prior to its expiration date, but does apply to renew the permit within 60 days after the permit expires, the sheriff may waive the requirement of taking another firearms safety and training course. This subsection does not extend the expiration date of the permit. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, s. 22.2(b); 2000-140, s. 103; 2000-191, s. 1; 2009-307, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 18.)

Yeah, new Harnett county sheriff did not see that way. Had take class again and go thru the whole shit bang
 
Yeah, new Harnett county sheriff did not see that way. Had take class again and go thru the whole shit bang

This part says you're SOL:

"Failure to receive a renewal notice shall not relieve a permittee of requirements imposed in this section for renewal of the permit."

In simple terms: A notice must be sent but it's all on you to know.
 
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This part says you're SOL:

"Failure to receive a renewal notice shall not relieve a permittee of requirements imposed in this section for renewal of the permit."

In simple terms: A notice must be sent but it's all on you to know.

True, which is why I set an alert in my phone.

But it was the deputy that handled permitting that said they did not send notices any more. Now it happen just as new sheriff got in office and may be has changed back. But 3 of us- me, my wife, and my mom (different address) were all due at same time. No notice to any one
 
I read this around here, it seems daily... Who on this forum is voting for this guy or any of the other ones we've supposed to remember in November anyway? Not that there are better options for candidates anymore either... I've seen veto-proof Repuglican majorities voted in on the state and federal level with matching Gov/Pres, and they accomplish nothing while in office. Please tell me why this one is different...
Does Castle Doctrine, carry in state parks, city parks, restaurants that serve alcohol, mean nothing? Does standardization of the permitting process and taking most of the discretion away from gun-hating Sheriff's mean nothing? Does getting NFA items without Sheriff sign-off mean nothing? Because we got all that since 2011 when the R's took over for the first time in 113 years. Not to mention that all those Democrat gun bills that would make you long for the relative freedom of California gun control get stuck in committee and go nowhere (committee chairs: all Republican).

Please explain how you can look at what has happened in NC since 2011 and say that we got nothing.
 
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By law you get the notice to renew in the mail, my letter said they are contacting me 'as a courtesy'. Sure they are. Edit: Donny Harrison was Wake Sheriff.
Have you considered sending the letter back, corrected with red pen, and with a comment written on it saying "Very disappointing, see me after class"?
 
Does Castle Doctrine, carry in state parks, city parks, restaurants that serve alcohol, mean nothing? Does standardization of the permitting process and taking most of the discretion away from gun-hating Sheriff's mean nothing? Does getting NFA items without Sheriff sign-off mean nothing? Because we got all that since 2011 when the R's took over for the first time in 113 years. Not to mention that all those Democrat gun bills that would make you long for the relative freedom of California gun control get stuck in committee and go nowhere (committee chairs: all Republican).

Please explain how you can look at what has happened in NC since 2011 and say that we got nothing.

Thank you for saying that. All too often we forget the things we HAVE accomplished.


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It's good to see them trying to hold him accountable, but what's the actual outcome here?

They're talk of court action, but I'm assuming the court will just dismiss any charges because of the 'rona and they're certainly not going to remove one of their own from power. So other than hassling the guy... is this just to keep the permits moving at all lest he just stop all together until things are "back to normal"?

I still gave GRNC a little cash this month, because even if they're just hassling the guy with no real outcome it's more than I could do, and someone has to keep these dbags from having it too easy.

It's about time. I've been wondering why someone hasn't filed a suit of some sort since I waited the better part of 6 months plus 2 weeks for my CHP in Meck. Carmichael was claiming that the Clerk of the Court and hospitals dragging their feet. I can only imagine what it will be like in a year or so when I go to renew under McFadden.

I don't recall offhand what the level of, or what the offense is, but sheriffs can temp. suspend permits. You get a letter in about two weeks regardless of where the offense happens. Apparently Carmichael wasn't doing it, but we were told that McFadden has been very prompt about that. Learned that in the USCCA seminar I attended.

As the old song goes, you don't what you had til it's gone...
 
My wife stopped by the Davidson County sheriff's dept. last week middle of October for her.
That’s just nuts. Particularly in light of the Sheriff’s declaration of his support for CHP holders. Maybe he’s trying to reduce the number of phone calls he has to make? :confused:

For every concealed-carry permit he approves, he calls the recipient individually, letting them know.

“I thank them for being part of my team,” he said.


https://journalnow.com/news/local/d...cle_2a208379-e3a9-5521-afbc-596733d1e7f0.html
 
That’s just nuts. Particularly in light of the Sheriff’s declaration of his support for CHP holders. Maybe he’s trying to reduce the number of phone calls he has to make? :confused:

For every concealed-carry permit he approves, he calls the recipient individually, letting them know.

“I thank them for being part of my team,” he said.


https://journalnow.com/news/local/d...cle_2a208379-e3a9-5521-afbc-596733d1e7f0.html

He called me yesterday, I was starting to get a little nervous. Mine expires on 7/31, I turned it in near the end of June and was told that was plenty of time. We spoke for 2-3 minutes, I really like him, I have known him and his wife for years while I have been in EMS.
 
Still don't see any mention of what will happen here. If he's violating the rules... does the lawsuit just get him to follow them? What if he says "no" again?

Actually, I"m just going to ask GRNC, I've renewed since my last post even, they owe me an answer. :)
 
New Hanover County gave a friend a mid October date for an appointment for concealed carry. That was on July 23rd or 24th.
 
I taught a class for 10 in Madison county on July 18. 5 of the students are Madison county residents and already have been to get there fingerprints and 2 have the permits in hand. Living in the mountains means a lot. The sheriff told them to take the class and get it before anything else happened.
 
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