I would like to get in on this as well. commenting for reference
Guns at Church
- Thread starter jimmyjames8
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Must be a nice church you go to, if you would feel very uneasy with the people sitting around you armed.
Its simple. When I’m in the presence of armed militia I like to know they have gun skills and intelligence. If I went to a movie theatre and everyone had a pistol, I would leave. I can't shoot indoors without being nervous. Day of prayer I like to relax and listen. It might help me. I worry more about religious radicals than any atheist. All the atheist I know are docile.
This is the slippery slope of your position: either it's a right or a privilege. The only way you can guarantee that those who have guns possess "skills and intelligence" is to make them a privilege regulated by the State. In which case possession would not be a right as was intended by the 2nd. Making it a privilege opens the door to all sort of infringement, regulation, and control.
Freedom is messy, and it comes at the cost of not "feeling" and sometimes not even "being" safe. Some of us would rather have freedom than safety imposed by the government as we think that comes with too high of a price tag.
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I too would be interested in the information from Wahoo95.
Thanks in Advance.
Thanks in Advance.
Everyone else is reaming you on the philosophy, so I'll take a different bent.
There are many things I would say about Christianity, about going to church. Safety is not one of them. Safety and Christianity, as I see it, don't mix, there lies spiritual death. If you're going to church to feel safe, I think you're going for the wrong reasons.
Ok, I can't help it, I'll throw in on the freedom/safety thing, too.
There's one place I know that should and always will be safer than church: A solitary confinement prison cell, administered by the government and trained armed men. Yay, safety?
FYI, Hickory PD is offering information to Churches from what I am hearing. Not quite sure what that info is, but might be worth checking into if you are local.
Mattyb
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For some folks, freedom is just too frightening.
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90% of people carry around me mostly open carry, mostly handguns others select fire assault rifles. The other 10% are contractors like me but I'm armed. I work in Afghanistan north of Kabual. I'm also a 24 yr Special Forces veteran ie I've been trained as a Tier I operator. Yes, I'm in a war zone again. I don't have an issue when I go home with others around me that are armed. An armed society is a polite society. You never have control over your surroundings unless you are at home. When you're driving, you are just 2 feet away from death from another driver. You trust them then, why not with a firearm?
CD
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CD, knowing your background for years I would welcome you protecting my congregation just as you have done our freedoms. I’d sit down right beside you.
You ask 100 women with small children if they want 100 men carrying guns on the same pew and keeping the nursery their kids play in during service and I think you will find very few women approve
Me, the unskilled with weapons are a great concern. Add the amount of people that might play Clint Eastwood could be large. Too large for comfort. I shoot about 5000 rounds a year and I would not consider myself a marksman. But I do understand gun safety. I have no idea who has safe skills.
I never asked anyone on the forum to agree. I know people on here can’t wait to swarm down on anyone who doesn’t believe you should be able to carry anywhere, any day, without permits, or have to buy a permit to purchase a pistol. Rail away.
You ask 100 women with small children if they want 100 men carrying guns on the same pew and keeping the nursery their kids play in during service and I think you will find very few women approve
Me, the unskilled with weapons are a great concern. Add the amount of people that might play Clint Eastwood could be large. Too large for comfort. I shoot about 5000 rounds a year and I would not consider myself a marksman. But I do understand gun safety. I have no idea who has safe skills.
I never asked anyone on the forum to agree. I know people on here can’t wait to swarm down on anyone who doesn’t believe you should be able to carry anywhere, any day, without permits, or have to buy a permit to purchase a pistol. Rail away.
It isn’t that we are “swarming” you because we disagree...wait...yes it is. You either believe people should have the right and the freedoms to protect themselves or not. Where they are is of no issue. You are basically saying that you would support your church having “no guns” signs and metal detectors to keep gun carrying members from going about their business as normal.
No one has ever mentioned “everyone carrying” as if they will be issuing an AR and a Glock to everyone walking through the doors. Only leaving people to express their God given right of self preservation the best way they know how.
Your “I don’t want hundreds of people pulling a Dirty Harry” style comments are specifically what we hear from the Anti-gun crowd that seeks to remove carry rights universally.
“I believe in the second...but...”
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Some people consume too much of the main stream media, Facebook and Twitter, and some people don't. Some people think 'experts' should make all our decisons, some people don't. Some expect others to protect them amd theirs and some people don't. And it is usually very easy to tell who is who. Let's hope it works out for all of us.
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He did come to a gun board and say he doesn't trust people with guns. The results are less than surprising.
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The church my family attends averages about 95 people for Sunday school and double that for the church service. We have zero security and all doors are unlocked throughout the service.
I live in SC where permission from the pastor or governing body is required to carry. As far as I know, I'm the only one who carries while there. We've been attending for about three years now and know most everyone and I've yet to meet another "gun guy."
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I live in SC where permission from the pastor or governing body is required to carry. As far as I know, I'm the only one who carries while there. We've been attending for about three years now and know most everyone and I've yet to meet another "gun guy."
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Mattyb
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I haven’t asked for a woman’s permission to make decisions as leader/protector of my family since I was a kid, I’m not sure that’s terribly relevant, but I may be misunderstanding.
You must have known that arguing for anti-freedom/anti-gun ideas would go down like a throat full of glass on this forum?
Thankfully in NC we don't have to ask. We're in a similar situation, with the exception a Mstr Sgt Ranger friend that attends when he's in town. When I asked the pastor about church security & feel like I'm the only one armed, I was put on security detail, I'm going to task him with setting up a training regimen.
That's why I'm looking forward to the info.
Really? I was under the thought permission had to be granted. Am I wrong?
Not that I’m aware of. I carry at church. Never asked anyone’s permission.
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“ I’m all in favor of a security detail at the front and back of the church but I don’t want to sit thru church thinking a nut case has carried into the sanctuary. A couple trusted and trained people would not worry me but a couple hundred would make my butt pucker.”
This is a good place to start. Everything you have written has implied that you don’t trust people with guns. You even specifically used a “I am in favor of security, but...”
This is FUDD talk and hopefully through time and education you can learn to be a bit more accepting of other people’s rights trumping your feelings.
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This could be taken a couple of ways.
1- You think some who legally carry for self defense are 'nut cases'
2- You think all people who legally carry for self defense are 'nut cases'.
3- You expect the laws to not carry in some places are magical and work.
I'm sure there's more.
I wouldn't want to go to a church where a member says there are a "couple hundred nutcases" attending on any given Sunday.
P.S.- Maybe he means that they would only be nutcases if they were armed?
P.S.- Maybe he means that they would only be nutcases if they were armed?
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How do you reconcile Luke 22:36 and other verses that state it is your own duty to provide your own security? If you are in a church full of Christians then in my mind EVERYONE should be armed. Jesus tells us that we must have one and know how to use it and be prepared to use it. Not just for ourselves but for the protection of others that can not do it for themselves.
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SC has a law that prohibits carry at church. NC does not. They can be a school, or posted, and that would prohibit carry...but not the simple fact that it's a church.
I used to have a similar misunderstanding about banks nationwide.
Dale Gribble
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THE GALL!!! Thinking and acting like a free man.
That's how it starts...one here, one there. Next thing you know, it catches fire and there's more than just a handful doing the same...
And pretty soon, you've got yourself a Republic.
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Brangus
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This is one big reason we need to assist our South Carolina gun owners in applying pressure any way possible in requiring their legislators to remove these unconstitutional restrictions on citizens.
Their fight is our fight.
I appreciate your comment. To keep it polite, I found it absolutely... appalling... That I had to ask for permission to carry at church. It's bad enough I had to ask the state and pay them.
I had just assumed I was able to carry at church because it would never cross my mind that I couldn't. Then one day I was refreshing on SC law and saw that I must ask for permission. I didn't like the idea of outing myself, for starters.
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I haven't been to church in a long while, but it sounds like the OP may be in the wrong church.
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I agree. And as we grow in numbers we should use our influence to help others not have to comply with these denials of their constitutional rights.
I say that my constitutional rights have been infringed upon if you deny me the right to carry. To keep things civil though.......I'll respect the opinions of those who would deny me my right to carry and simply not drag my carcass in there for any reason. Simply put........that can go two ways. I choose not to comply with the sole opinions/requests of the opposition that stand in the way of my freedoms and rights anywhere I have a choice.
And for the record, I do recognize that my ability to carry in post offices, schools, etc. etc. is limited by unconstitutional laws so I don't need a sermon on that. All I can say is those restricted (and dangerous) locations only present more opportunities for us to work on with our collective efforts in tearing those restrictions down.
One at a time if that's all we can do.
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I haven't been to church in a long while, but it sounds like the OP may be in the wrong church.
If the day arrives that my church joins the antis then it will spell out clearly to me that our welcome there has officially ended. Period
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I'm following very closely the ideas and suggestions that members like @Wahoo95 and others are contributing to our gun owners community so we can implement those procedures and guidelines which work well in church settings. The last thing that any of us need to become known for is going about church security the wrong way and having unfortunate regrets later.
Listen up CFF members............there is too much valuable information available for us to benefit from as opposed to trying to reinvent the wheel each time. Please join the efforts together with us in sharing good credible security information with others and let's leave the emotions and personal feelings aside. We'll all be able to benefit more by using sound logic and reason when it comes to utilizing armed security in locations where large numbers of people are gathering.
This topic simply is not just limited to church settings.............all of our families face grave exposures each and every day by not being prepared to adequately defend ourselves.
As the head of my home I won't use the excuse that "I didn't realize there were dangers so I didn't prepare."
Listen up CFF members............there is too much valuable information available for us to benefit from as opposed to trying to reinvent the wheel each time. Please join the efforts together with us in sharing good credible security information with others and let's leave the emotions and personal feelings aside. We'll all be able to benefit more by using sound logic and reason when it comes to utilizing armed security in locations where large numbers of people are gathering.
This topic simply is not just limited to church settings.............all of our families face grave exposures each and every day by not being prepared to adequately defend ourselves.
As the head of my home I won't use the excuse that "I didn't realize there were dangers so I didn't prepare."
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Right on Brangus! I hope we all have that mindset.
As an aside, but in my opinion a private business or a church that posts a no-gun sign is not infringing upon my rights as I still have the freedom of association. Or in this case, the freedom if disassociation. I am not forced to disarm, I have to choose to in order to receive their services which can be found other places.
If Chad invites me to his house for a BBQ, but I am vegan, he isn’t infringing on my rights to eat as I please or oppose meat as I have no duty or obligation to take part.
What would be an infringement is if I were to knowingly and willfully break the rules of a property owner by partaking in a behavior that they have forbidden on their property.
Does this mean I support anti-gun signs? Absolutely not. But I do differentiate between me having my rights infringed upon and me having to respect the rights of others on their own property.
I think it is very important that we are clear, or at least have a strong idea what an “infringement” is.
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If Chad invites me to his house for a BBQ, but I am vegan, he isn’t infringing on my rights to eat as I please or oppose meat as I have no duty or obligation to take part.
What would be an infringement is if I were to knowingly and willfully break the rules of a property owner by partaking in a behavior that they have forbidden on their property.
Does this mean I support anti-gun signs? Absolutely not. But I do differentiate between me having my rights infringed upon and me having to respect the rights of others on their own property.
I think it is very important that we are clear, or at least have a strong idea what an “infringement” is.
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