H&K SP5. Finally

B00ger said:
Ive always liked the look of them, however at that price point I do feel they are somewhat of a rich mans play thing. There are now many other options for very cost effective alternatives that have proven to be reliable and fill the niche well. Not sure, specifically, what this does better than say a Scorpion which is a fraction of the cost.
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Out of the box the MP5 is a much better shooting design. The Scorpion's trigger is horrible. You need at least a brace or you can't pull the trigger. LOL The Scorpion is also a blow back gun with and extremely large bolt. The size and weight of the bolt helps with the reliability of the gunif I understand it correctly. It also makes it feel clunky. It just does not feel very refined. The trigger pack is cheap. It feels like a toy. It works but it has a very push pull sort of feel. I did not really notice it as much until I shot it back to back to back with MP5 clones. Even the clones I have which are Zeniths are much smoother operating than the Scorpion. The Scorpion is not bad by any means its just not as good and IMHO is priced about where it should be. IMHO you need to put about $200 into which will get you a trigger job & some upgraded parts which help its ergos to make a decent gun.

I also swapped the grip, mag release, trigger and the safeties. I think it cost about $200 + shipping.

https://www.shooterselement.com/collections/cz-scorpion-grips/products/yeti-wurks-switchback-grip

https://www.shooterselement.com/col...cts/cz-scorpion-mini-ak-style-safety-selector

https://www.shooterselement.com/products/cz-scorpion-flat-trigger-black?variant=32382870214

https://www.shooterselement.com/col...ease/products/extended-magazine-release-black
 
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wvsig said:
Out of the box the MP5 is a much better shooting design. *snip*
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I don't disagree. But we are talking about a 1500+ Price difference. And again, much of this is based on opinion, as I personally liked how the Scorpion shot, how it felt, ect. Or even the MPX. I guess its like comparing a regular Honda to an Acura. The Acura may be more refined, drive a little better, perhaps have an extra bell or whistle. But unless you have the extra coin the plain old Honda still works well enough.
 
B00ger said:
I don't disagree. But we are talking about a 1500+ Price difference. And again, much of this is based on opinion, as I personally liked how the Scorpion shot, how it felt, ect. Or even the MPX. I guess its like comparing a regular Honda to an Acura. The Acura may be more refined, drive a little better, perhaps have an extra bell or whistle. But unless you have the extra coin the plain old Honda still works well enough.
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I understand that. I think that objectively the MP5 is a better gun. If you removed the price tag and you shot them and then someone said pick the one you want without price consideration I think most people would pick the MP5. It is more accurate smoother shooting and better ergonomics. Like in your comparison between a Honda and an Acura. Are people going to pick the Accord over TLX?

This does not make the Scorpion bad. I bought the Scorpion because I liked shooting it and because of the price point. I then was able to get a Zenith Z5-P from the BST trade here. Then a Z-5RS fell into my lap. I am lucky I could afford them. The Scorpion with upgrades and the Z5-P did not cost me what people are paying for a stock SP5 right now. So I know what you are saying. That said if I could have gotten an HK for say $2000-$2200 I might have skipped the Scorpion and the clones.

Also don't get me wrong if I could only have the Scorpion I would be just fine. It is still a very good gun. All in with a trigger job, new selectors, mag release, grip, tailhook brace on a factory folder etc... I am only in it for about $1200 when you consider how much gun you get it is a solid value. HKs are not about the value proposition. LOL
 
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Anyone that's had to clean one, wouldn't want it specifically on that point. I've never seen so many damn parts in a rifle. Lol
 
wvsig said:
I understand that. I think that objectively the MP5 is a better gun. If you removed the price tag and you shot them and then someone said pick the one you want without price consideration I think most people would pick the MP5. It is more accurate smoother shooting and better ergonomics. Like in your comparison between a Honda and an Acura. Are people going to pick the Accord over TLX?

This does not make the Scorpion bad. I bought the Scorpion because I liked shooting it and because of the price point. I then was able to get a Zenith Z5-P from the BST trade here. Then a Z-5RS fell into my lap. I am lucky I could afford them. The Scorpion with upgrades and the Z5-P did not cost me what people are paying for a stock SP5 right now. So I know what you are saying. That said if I could have gotten an HK for say $2000-$2200 I might have skipped the Scorpion and the clones.

Also don't get me wrong if I could only have the Scorpion I would be just fine. It is still a very good gun. All in with a trigger job, new selectors, mag release, grip, tailhook brace on a factory folder etc... I am only in it for about $1200 when you consider how much gun you get it is a solid value. HKs are not about the value proposition. LOL
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Yup, I’m not doubting it’s “better”, just if it’s $1,500 better. Just as I don’t doubt the Acura is “better”. It’s up to the user to decide if their wallet and needs/wants can justify the increase.


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WadeWatts said:
At $3000, this doesn’t get me any closer to owning an MP5.

Thanks again Hk,
Sincerely, The Poors
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Well the hope is that if they are actually going to make a reasonable number of them the price will come down into the $2000 range which is not cheap but not quite $3000. ;)
 
wvsig said:
Well the hope is that if they are actually going to make a reasonable number of them the price will come down into the $2000 range which is not cheap but not quite $3000. ;)
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I might be able to swing $2k for a real Hk. I hope these knock the clones down a notch too. For that reason I hope they flood the market.
 
WadeWatts said:
I might be able to swing $2k for a real Hk. I hope these knock the clones down a notch too. For that reason I hope they flood the market.
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Well lets not get carried away. If they drop in price I have 2 Zeniths I have to sell to get me some HK goodness. ;)
 
HMP said:
'trying'
how long has that been now?
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I sorta doubt they are still at it, but that was at least two or three years ago. Perhaps their success with the AK-V has filled that niche in their company line-up.

My point was, if it was easy to produce a semi MP5 clone that could be sold profitably for $900ish, PSA and any number of other companies would have done it already.
 
cubrock said:
I sorta doubt they are still at it, but that was at least two or three years ago. Perhaps their success with the AK-V has filled that niche in their company line-up.

My point was, if it was easy to produce a semi MP5 clone that could be sold profitably for $900ish, PSA and any number of other companies would have done it already.
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Yeah their AK offerings are “functional” at best. I got one in 7.62 thinking it was on par with a Wasr and sadly it was not. I don’t think they should mess with HK clones.
 
WadeWatts said:
Yeah their AK offerings are “functional” at best. I got one in 7.62 thinking it was on par with a Wasr and sadly it was not. I don’t think they should mess with HK clones.
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Their AK-V seems to get good reviews, but it is also at a higher price point. I want one, but haven't been willing to commit the funds yet. It won't do anything my Scorpion doesn't do, other than look a different kind of cool.
 
cubrock said:
I sorta doubt they are still at it, but that was at least two or three years ago. Perhaps their success with the AK-V has filled that niche in their company line-up.

My point was, if it was easy to produce a semi MP5 clone that could be sold profitably for $900ish, PSA and any number of other companies would have done it already.
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Oh I agree, it's not going to happen.
 
Those Zeniths are pretty sexy. never seen them. Ill take yalls dregs when you trade up. :)
 
cubrock said:
I sorta doubt they are still at it, but that was at least two or three years ago. Perhaps their success with the AK-V has filled that niche in their company line-up.
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Last update I’ve seen was 10/22/19...”still in the works”.
 
BigWaylon said:
Last update I’ve seen was 10/22/19...”still in the works”.
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I've got four or five MP5 mags I've been holding on to, waiting for it to happen. I'll keep the faith. :)
 
cubrock said:
I've got four or five MP5 mags I've been holding on to, waiting for it to happen. I'll keep the faith. :)
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A little more recent info, and answers coming directly from PSA:



Video was posted ~2 weeks ago. I just watched it to see what was said. The three main (although very short) portions about the PSA-5 are at:

~10 min
~14 min
~20:45

The last one is followed up by some interesting info about the AK-E, which will be the first FN-barreled AK. More info coming at Shot Show, including the release of some super secret project.

Short version of the PSA-5. It’s still coming, it will be made most in-house, and they’re aiming for sub $1200.
 
BigWaylon said:
A little more recent info, and answers coming directly from PSA:



Video was posted ~2 weeks ago. I just watched it to see what was said. The three main (although very short) portions about the PSA-5 are at:

~10 min
~14 min
~20:45

The last one is followed up by some interesting info about the AK-E, which will be the first FN-barreled AK. More info coming at Shot Show, including the release of some super secret project.

Short version of the PSA-5. It’s still coming, it will be made most in-house, and they’re aiming for sub $1200.
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The translation is it is NEVER going to happen. Again if it was easy to make a MP5 gun at the sub $1200 level someone would have done it by now. Also the idea that they ship guns that are 100% reliable and built to 100% quality is absurd. Honestly I hope I am wrong and they make it because it will drive the market lower.
 
BigWaylon said:
A little more recent info, and answers coming directly from PSA:



Video was posted ~2 weeks ago. I just watched it to see what was said. The three main (although very short) portions about the PSA-5 are at:

~10 min
~14 min
~20:45

The last one is followed up by some interesting info about the AK-E, which will be the first FN-barreled AK. More info coming at Shot Show, including the release of some super secret project.

Short version of the PSA-5. It’s still coming, it will be made most in-house, and they’re aiming for sub $1200.
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I'm still in at $1200, though grudgingly.
 
From what I have been able to find the dealer cost on these is a little over $2060 give or take. Some have been sold on back order for as low as $2399 so my dreams if $2000 most likely not going to happen LOL.
 
wvsig said:
From what I have been able to find the dealer cost on these is a little over $2060 give or take. Some have been sold on back order for as low as $2399 so my dreams if $2000 most likely not going to happen LOL.
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Might get lucky and snag a used one for 2K.
 
$3000 and apparently they don't even come with the aperture rear sight.
 
charliesgrave said:
$3000 and apparently they don't even come with the aperture rear sight.
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Had a buddy who bought an HK SL7 back in the 80s or early 90s. It came with sights but not the special tool needed to adjust the sights. He called HK to get the tool he assumed had been left out of his box and they informed him it would be $125 to get the tool. He made his own.
 
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cubrock said:
Had a buddy who bought an HK SL7 back in the 80s or early 90s. It can with sights but not be special tool needed to adjust the sights. He called HK to get the tool he assumed had been left out of his box and they informed him it would be $125 to get the tool. He made his own.
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And that kind of disdain for their own customers is why I'll never own one of their firearms.
That, and the price.
 
I'm a big fan of HK. I own a bunch of their pistols, including a Mk23, and I love them all.

But this doesn't interest me at all. If I could get one for around $1k, I'd jump right on it...

But, at this price, no thanks. Not interested in the least.
 
IMO this is like a Rolex. It doesn't seem to have much of anything in functionality over the crop of more modern 9mm pistols/SBRs except for being several times the price. It's man jewelry. I'll take the Timex that's just as deadly, actually 3 of them.
 
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