Harley-Davidson demographic death

turkeydance

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quote:
The Milwaukee-based company said its net income fell 82% in its fiscal fourth quarter to $8.3 million, compared with a year earlier.

link:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/

quote:
In the U.S., Harley and other motorcycle manufacturers are caught between two customer demographic trends: Millennials who aren’t widely embracing the motorcycling lifestyle and Boomers who think they are getting too old to keep riding.

link:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...acturers-face-big-challenges-2018/1039542001/

essentially, the H-D buyers are aging out.
 
I’m part of the millennial demographic, and love my Harley. Part of the issue is the younger generation isn’t willing to work, and can’t afford those bikes. I think Harley is working on some things to bring the younger guys in, but time will tell. I personally wouldn’t trade my geezer Glide for any Honda, or any import for that matter, and Indians aren’t my cup of tea. I’m also not the typical millennial though.
 
In the U.S., Harley and other motorcycle manufacturers are caught between two customer demographic trends: Millennials who aren’t widely embracing the motorcycling lifestyle and Boomers who think they are getting too old to keep riding.
If that's the issue, is it affecting the other motorcycle manufacturers (which I suppose are mostly divisions within larger companies, like Honda, but I'm sure they report unit sales for their bikes)?
 
Late 20s here...I've owned two HDs(XL & Dyna) and love them, but I would never buy a new one for several reasons. Price is way too high and new bikes have too much shit on them(I ride to get away from technology). Plus anyone looking to buy a bike knows the used market is in the toilet, hell I got my 07 at a steal with only 3k miles on it.

Since the early 90s HD has been a brand company that happened to also motorcycles. Their bikes were always able to command a premium for the RUBs, but those guys are no longer interested in playing dress up and HD has out priced itself from the actual blue collar riders. We'l see what happens, but the writing has been in the walls for a few years that HD is going to be in deep shit.
 
I have a very good friend who has a motorcycle dealership. Has a large inventory, does well.
He deals only used quality. No new bikes. Doesn't matter what kind as long as it's a good bike/atv/utv/whatever. I'd venture to say that 70% of his inventory is cruisers, and probably 80% of those are HD's. I can't recall seeing a junker HD in there, they all look sharp to me.
He's got a few things going on for him.
Been doing this for 30 years and knows all you can about it, and has the connections.
Great guy, no bs, customers are comfortable, repeats, and referrals.
Doesn't try to get rich off of any one bike, good and fair prices.
We live in an area that is motorcycle heaven.

But what I can tell of why he does as well as he does...is people are tired of the insane prices of new bikes, especially Harleys. Most of the HD's I see in there hover around the 8000 mile mark, and are 10+ grand cheaper than a new one. Look and ride like brand new.
And again, none of the crap sales bs you get at a new bike dealership, and Harley Davidson is the worst here as they want you to beg them to take your money. I mean...they sell all the t-shirts, got all the stickers in truck windows..must be the best right? They've long believed their own hype as real.
HD has never really treated their customer base like they were worth anything. 20 years ago when everybody wanted an HD, they sent them all to Europe where they sold for an extra 20K over msrp, leaving their core US base in the crapper. Tough. Take a number peasant and wait a year.

And God forbid you needed any warranty work...which was common with HD. You were treated like absolute dirt and they had no problems making you feel like a pita.
Most of the good used bikes have had all them bugs ironed out and are ready to ride.
So yeah..the buyers are drying up, the chopper fad is over, and the loyal HD riders are starting to realize that since support for them at HD is junk, they'll shop used.
 
IMO, you can only sell an image for so long when the price is so precious.
At some point you have to join the 21st century and compete with other motorcycles.

Sounds harsh, but they cost much more, and perform much worse. The chopper craze helped them a lot (selling image) but that is long dead, thankfully, because it was based wholly on style over substance. The "hand made quality" isn't fooling anyone anymore because the internet will immediately show them that welding steel pipes together and tacking a bunch of heavy pointless chromed crap on a premade frame isn't the be-all end-all, because there are real custom bikes out there.

I like Harleys. I think they are fun to ride and now that I am a half century old, I wouldn't mind a nice Street Glide. But, if I had to choose between a new Hondasukiasaki and a clean used low mile f150 OR a street glide.........uhhhhh, yeah.

I would only have a Harley if I hit the lotto and had like 3 other bikes I want first. Then I would buy a HD to blast around town on once in a while. Just my opinion and don't mean to piss off the faithful. I get it: they have there own character. They are neat bikes, but I am surprised they have made it this long.

Where I grew up it is a serious motorcycling culture. There's tons of them. You almost never see Harleys.
 
My last motorcycle was a ‘69 Triumph in 1987. Have occassionally considered a Norton, as much for the history as anything. I admire what HD did in building a brand, but have never been attracted to the machines themselves.

I live too near the city to even consider riding routinely today.
 
The last motorcycle I bought was a Honda Shadow 1100VT. I put some pipes and had carbs rejetted and the wife and I rode the mess out of it. I purchased it used, but it was less than a year old and less than 1,000 miles. I couldn't have been happier with a HD, and this one was many thousands of dollars cheaper. It didn't have quite the sound when idling, but it rarely idled!
 
HD, much lile NASCAR, went way overboard promoting the brand. They both enjoyed their booms, of course, but it all had to naturally deflate at some point.

They now face similar problems: now that they have both alienated their old base to the point of their base no longer wanting anything to do with them, they have no one else to sustain them now that the boom is over.

They traded traditional bonds for the short term (one generation as opposed to a longer vision) money and hype.
 
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I'd love to have an old Harley. New ones don't do much for me .
 
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They should branch out and start building airplanes.
Not sure about that. Seems it's possible to make a profit with planes.

Why not HOG guns?
 
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They need to start making accessories for Scooter Chairs! They will also have to make some for the Goldwing crowd, the same thing is happening to Honda.
 
HEY HARLEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUAL SPORT SPORTSTER YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

134473442_kCYM2-O.jpg

9-7-2010dualsportster-almostfinished005.jpg
 
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Maybe it's just me unfairly stereotyping HD owners, but I could never bring myself to own one.
 
Even when they try to attract other demographics, it comes across as half-hearted.
I rode one of the VRods and it was fun.as.hell. Awesome hooligan bike and great for smokey burnouts and putting corvettes and porsches in their place.
But it 'ain't a Harley'...mostly because it's water cooled. When you tell them you have a VRod they look at you like the red headed step child. o_O
 
HEY HARLEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUAL SPORT SPORTSTER YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

134473442_kCYM2-O.jpg

9-7-2010dualsportster-almostfinished005.jpg

I think HD has been more concerned over the years on looks and sound instead of functionality, performance and predicting where the market is going. A dual sport HD would be great if they made it with all the latest technology. So would a Vrod based sport touring machine. But HD did away with the Vrod.
 
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half their line today is Watercooled @Friday
Yah, but the VRod was really the first one to go there, and the motor is not a 90 year old American single crank pin ka-thump-ka-thump design, it's a Porsche
design.
I think it's a great bike, but it comes across that HD was 'pressured' into producing it and they never really backed it much within the HD propaganda.
 
Yah, but the VRod was really the first one to go there, and the motor is not a 90 year old American single crank pin ka-thump-ka-thump design, it's a Porsche
design.
I think it's a great bike, but it comes across that HD was 'pressured' into producing it and they never really backed it much within the HD propaganda.
I believe in a court case brought against another brand, they described their unique sounds as potato-potato, not ka-thump ka-thump. Lol.

I could be wrong. I'm just going on memory.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
It's a bad time for motorcycles in general. Demographics, regulation and economics all combining in a bad way for the manufacturers. I don't like Harleys but I hate to see them struggle. I thought Polaris made a terrible choice closing victory and keeping Indian. Indian is so encumbered by its design language they can't go where the market wants to go. Victory was always out there with their styling so a 600cc scrambler or a big "Adventure" bike might have fit. Similar to how Ducati did the Multistrada and their own scrambler.
Used bikes seem to be losing value fast across all brands and styles as well. I'm watching a Honda Africa Twin with 11,500 miles languish on another forum at $11,000 when new it would have been around $16,000. This bike was Uber hot when it came out 2 years ago.

If I were the marketing vp at an oem I would sponsor a bunch of young nomads to ride around the world posting on Instagram. Be up front about it and not try to hide the fact its sponsored but don't have every picture be about the bike either. I'd try to find a YouTube guy that does a lot of commuting and give him access to our small bikes and I would hammer manufacturing and sales to respond to the input from the viewers. I know there are laws about how dealer networks operate but I'd also try to get the corporate website to the point you could order your bike and take delivery at the dealer of your choice even if they don't stock that model. Test rides would be encouraged and finally new models would favor 2 up riding a bit more. So maybe that's why I'm not VP of marketing at a motorcycle company.
 
I believe in a court case brought against another brand, they described their unique sounds as potato-potato, not ka-thump ka-thump. Lol.

I could be wrong. I'm just going on memory.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Lol correct.
The Honda Shadow ACE.
HD sued...insisting that they owned 'the sound' of a single crank pin V twin. o_O Absurd, and they lost their ass after years of fighting, and of course they didn't just absorb the cost of losing, they passed it on to the buyer.
What's funny to me, is when the engineers at Honda were instructed to build a v twin clone of the HD for the American market..they are quoted as basically saying "you want us to do what?" :confused:

And not all manufacturers are struggling. KTM is on the top of their game, and their bikes are expensive. They have a design philosophy unique to themselves and they build bikes that HD and the big 4 have declared as archaic..ie 2-strokes..which they can't build fast enough.
 
If I were the marketing vp at an oem I would sponsor a bunch of young nomads to ride around the world posting on Instagram. Be up front about it and not try to hide the fact its sponsored but don't have every picture be about the bike either. I'd try to find a YouTube guy that does a lot of commuting and give him access to our small bikes and I would hammer manufacturing and sales to respond to the input from the viewers. I know there are laws about how dealer networks operate but I'd also try to get the corporate website to the point you could order your bike and take delivery at the dealer of your choice even if they don't stock that model. Test rides would be encouraged and finally new models would favor 2 up riding a bit more. So maybe that's why I'm not VP of marketing at a motorcycle company.


Bassani does this, check their instagram.
 
Never could understand why someone would grossly overpay for a motorcycle and then spend thousands more adding accessories advertising the name of the company that raped them on the sale to begin with. Most people would get paid to advertise for a company. Harley suckered folks into paying them to do it for them.
 
Never could understand why someone would grossly overpay for a motorcycle and then spend thousands more adding accessories advertising the name of the company that raped them on the sale to begin with. Most people would get paid to advertise for a company. Harley suckered folks into paying them to do it for them.
KTM is doing something similar in the off road space.
 
But KTM isn't lying. When they say Ready To Race they mean it.
There's no need for a ton of aftermarket like the big 4. Pull it outta the crate and go racing.
 
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