Help me decide on a new subgun: PTR, Zenith, B&T, etc

Discussion in 'Pistol Caliber Carbines' started by JRHorne, May 29, 2019.

  1. Chdamn

    Chdamn Dungeon Master Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    I really like my PTR shorty. They make a folding stock for it too.

    Mines in 308. Started out as a pdw (308 pistol). A lot of fun to shoot suppressed.
     
  2. Chdamn

    Chdamn Dungeon Master Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Oh and if you can go 45 the KRISS Vectors are awesome. A little more difficult to SBR since you can’t remove the barrel but I have the stuff to recrown and rethread the barrel by hand.
     
  3. Chdamn

    Chdamn Dungeon Master Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    I’ll also throw in for 9mm the calico 9mm’s should be illegal they’re so much fun to shoot.
     
  4. amnesia

    amnesia Habitual Trader Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    @JRHorne if this is an option I'll bring this as well.

    @Chdamn I didn't have any issues with the pistol to sbr.
     
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  5. Chdamn

    Chdamn Dungeon Master Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    I had a 16 inch barrel. What I meant was you can’t just pop the barrel out of these and stick it on a lathe to cut, crown and thread.

    Not a huge issue you just have to do it by hand.
     
  6. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'll eventually get a .45 subgun, probably in 5 years when LWRC gets their heads out of their asses and releases the Gen II SMG45.

    If I found a PTR for $1200 new I'd buy one right now.
     
  7. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Read some very positive reviews on the new 4.5" MPX today, only to have someone state the complete opposite 3 posts later. Negativity around it as a suppressor host.

    I also made the mistake of looking at Dakota Tactical today. Guns look amazing but got damn, $4,000!
     
  8. Clicker

    Clicker New Member

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    I'm late to the party but since you've mentioned a sear once or twice I'll give you my 2 cents. Bought a full size MKE rifle years ago when ATI imported them with the funky shelf, no push pin plus the mag & carrier blocks. Note that at the time you didn't have the choices one does today - it was a Bailey clone, HK or MKE - I had been down the Bailey road and vowed never again. So I added a wrap around HK semi style shelf and was able to run it with my FA pack after removing the carrier block etc. Gun runs great and all the furniture fits nicely without the use of a hammer & punch.

    So I file a F1 and SBR the thing and now it gets packed for almost every range trip. The fit & finish of my example was decent with the exception of the ugly ATI stampings, after the refinish it's even better. A friend bought a K model from the very first batch of ATI imported guns from Gordon Miller and it has some ugly sanding/grinder marks on the receiver but functionally it has never missed a beat.

    Fast forward years later and PTR is in the game, at a LGS I had the opportunity to fondle one but not actually shoot it. The gun stripped easily and accepted German furniture and my FA pack without any issues, hammer fell when dry firing in FA mode as it should. Now throw Dakota Tactical in the mix and things get muddy since DT builds what I consider the best clone available. I know a guy with a 9mm gun (I own a 10mm DT) who has had it for years and it shoots great. The thing about the DT guns that won me over was they were the only US made guns, at the time, that measured in spec in a couple critical areas. None of my Bailey made guns would accept a B&T optics rail, they were all too fat across the scope tabs, not so for the Dakota Tactical. My gripe about the DT stuff today is he welds on a scope rail and I prefer the old school look. Check out his Core Classic line, they're under $3K.

    Good luck, it is a twisted but interesting road when it comes to roller locked guns today.
     
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  9. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Thank you. Tremendous advice. It's funny you mention the welded rail on the DT as that is exactly my hang up. Not sure why they don't make it an option since any thing that is in stock is 6-8 weeks lead time anyway.

    The PTR is just so appealing for the price. I feel like giving one a swing is a good option and it'd be very likely if I ever wanted to get rid of it I wouldn't have any trouble, while also not taking a huge hit to the wallet.
     
  10. Clicker

    Clicker New Member

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    I think the reason Joe welds on a rail is due the time and machine work required to under cut the scope tabs. The tabs are under cut at an angle and this step takes time and care to do properly, most guys want to add a rail anyway. His attention to detail is outstanding and he stands behind his work, check one out if you can.
    Couple pic's of my 10mm receiver on this page;
    https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/nfa-pic-thread.31/page-13I
     
  11. SDIVER2006

    SDIVER2006 SDIVER2006

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    That B&T is sick
    Get you a pistol brace with a side folder thingie
    And one of the franklin binary triggers and you are set......


    I’ve already started saving pennies
     
  12. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Well folks, I made my decision and placed the order this AM. Zenith Z5RS. I want to thank @MichaelHK for providing some advice as well as all of you. I was actually planning on ordering one of the Dakota Tactical Core Classic Models ($2,699-$2,899) but I thought, do I really want to pay $800-1,000 more and have a 8-10 week wait? That money could be used towards my optic, form 1, and stock. So as it happens, I had signed up for an in stock notification for the RS and got the email this morning. Clicked on it and boom! Out of Stock! But I checked a few others and Grab-A-Gun had it for a pretty good price.

    The fact that the Zenith has a 5 year warranty, comes with 3 mags, and the optic mount, made the $1,8xx a good deal for me. I also purchased the Troy rail from @ARGuy (before even knowing I was getting the RS for sure!) so I can try it out as well. Ultimately, I think this will be a great addition to my collection. I plan on converting my Scorpion over to Micro so that will fill my immediate need for the super short/compact platform for which I thought I needed the K model MP5.

    How the Zenith comes stock:
    mke-z5rs-9mm-pistol-black-case-0131.jpg

    What it can look like with the Troy rail:
    A_5259.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  13. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Got the gun and think I'm really going to like it. I'm not going to decide on an optic or optic rail until I get the Form 1 approved and get the A3F stock to see how cheek weld is and therefore the desired optic height.

    Got the Troy rail and optic mount. Ehhh. It's just ok. I like the look of the handguard and feel, but it's not MLOK and I'm committed to adding a weapon light to the gun.

    Likely going to go with the Midwest Industries MLOK rail, an Arisaka mount and their 300 series light, and the Surefire pressure pad.

    Pic with the Troy setup and an extra Bushnell I had laying around. Shows you what an Aimpoint T1 would be like. I'm still unsure of MRO, T1, or some RMR like the Trijicon or the new Aimpoint ACRO.

    IMG_20190611_210548_01.jpg
     
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  14. kcult

    kcult Change my mind. Charter Member Supporting Member

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    What a hot mess of a countertop! Lol!

    I figured you would go for a keymod rail. You know, because keymod.

    In all silliness, why a form 1 over a pistol brace? I was leaning towards a brace for mine for, uh, reasons.
     
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  15. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Because I enjoy the full stocks and having the options to go more clone or era correct like Die Hard, etc. Plus as quick as Form 1s are coming back right now, why not?

    And Keymod is dead. I've transitioned most of my rifles away from it. I'm almost all MLOK and Pic now.

    And yea, when you have a 6 month old and a 4 year old plus a wife who is still pumping, and a dog who may be dying, you have a lot of shit laying around.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  16. kcult

    kcult Change my mind. Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Just kidding about the countertop.

    20190612_220308.jpg
     
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  17. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Dude, why is it like every house that has quartz or whatever countertops are all the same shades of tan/brown/black just a different pattern?!?!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  18. kcult

    kcult Change my mind. Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Gays love it.
     
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  19. JRHorne

    JRHorne Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    That's funny, because the men who originally owned my house were gay!

    What's your excuse?
     
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  20. Bradman

    Bradman Member Supporting Member

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    LoL. I have the MPX Sig and love it. I've had the Zenith and it was problem oriented.
     
  21. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Congrats on the buy!
     
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