Help me decide on a PCC

Bought the Ruger PCC that was listed her for $500 on Sunday. I thought the trigger felt pretty good for factory. I'm probably going to switch the bolt handle so I can run it weak handed. Can anyone recommend a decent 9mm muzzle brake? I'm either going to buy 2 or 3 Glock or ETS extended mag and go from there. Hope to get a chance to see how I like it next week or so and shoot it at Walnut Grove at the end of the month.

Local shop had a Sub 2000 for $479. I was tempted, but read somewhere that the Ruger has a delayed blowback action, so I'm hoping it will be softer recoiling. And it just feels more substantial.
 
Last edited:
I have 3 PCCs and between for my daughter and I to shoot local matches- PSA AR9 , Ruger PC9 and a Kalashnikov KP9. Previously I owned a SUB 2K.
If you own a Glock pistol both the PC9 and PSA AR9 will accept Glock pattern mags. Even if you do not own a Glock the options for aftermarket mags and extensions makes this a great choice. My Glock mags feed and function well
The PC9 is a great little carbine out of the box.
The Kalashnikov KP9 is one of the smoothest cycling PCCs I have ever shot - the only downside is the Mags are not as common.
Both the AR9 and KP9 accept tiggers and hand guards from standard AR or AK pattern rifles. If you have experience with an AK or AR the manual of operation is identical and this can be a bonus.
The Ruger is a great option if you want something a little less tactical- out of the box it really does not need anything- very accurate , and the aftermarket has adopted it with more upgrades and accessories available every week. Only downside it is pretty heavy
Small plate at 75 yards ? Sure if you do your job and know your weapon. We have shot many matches this year using them as “rifles” against other competitors with “full size” rifles

I couldn’t wait to send the SUB2K down the road - trigger was hot garbage, charging handle location, shape of handle made it difficult to use , you lose the fold feature if you mount an optic , factory sights are crude. Early on lots of folks went this route because of limited options, but this is priced similar to the Ruger PC9, The SUB 2K felt cheap and loose in the hand on top of everything else accuracy wasn’t great
 
GregB said:
I've owned a Hi Point Carbine in both 9mm and 45 ACP. I was disappointed in the amount of recoil from a PCC. Are AR9's, Sub 200o's, or the Ruger softer recoiling in your opinion?
Click to expand...
I was also surprised by the recoil from my 9mm Hi Point. What 9mm PCC's have the lowest felt recoil? There is damage to my spine, so I am a bit of a weenie when it comes to recoil. I have thought about starting a new thread called "Weenie Reloads", but there are probably some people would misunderstand the title! 😮
 
Slacker said:
IDPA requires a 16" barrel????
LAME!!!

Personally, I'd go Ruger.
I think the inaccuracy claims are BS.
Its A zone shooting not PRS.
The carbine isn't going to hold you back.
Click to expand...

They require a rifle.

This is because pistols in IDPA are holstered, not braced.

Think about it...
 
Fess said:
I was also surprised by the recoil from my 9mm Hi Point. What 9mm PCC's have the lowest felt recoil? There is damage to my spine, so I am a bit of a weenie when it comes to recoil. I have thought about starting a new thread called "Weenie Reloads", but there are probably some people would misunderstand the title! 😮
Click to expand...
Recoil with the Stribog (original reciprocating) Is pretty light as is the Scorpion, and the Roller Delayed Banshee in 45 acp seems light also.
 
The dead blow weight + the Ruger design make recoil pretty mild, I think.
 
Last edited:
The Ruger is a little heavier and has a really solid stock - softest shooter of any PCC I have shot
 
  • Like
Reactions: JT
I liked my AKV when I shot it and it has little recoil, but that's because of the weight. To be fair, I also don't mind unloading 8 rounds of full power 00 buck from my M1S90 Benelli just for shits and gigs.

The ultimate would be a form 1 SP5 with A2 stock. As soon as I file the form 1 for mine, I'll get some pics!
 
I got that 9mm carbine 15 years ago when I was just starting to get into shooting firearms more powerful than 22lr. I was curious how the least expensive semi-auto available at that gun show would perform, and what kind of accuracy I could wring from it. I had shot mainly air rifles and some 22's before that. I had thought that the recoil would be virtually nothing compared to the 7.62x39 I had been shooting. I now know that what I felt was the thump of the bolt hitting the back of the receiver. Since then I have learned that some direct blowback PCC's have a buffer to stop the bolt more gently. It would be fun to shoot one of those $2500+ JP Competition Carbines or a roller delayed PCC. Heck, just the buffer of that JP PCC cost about as much as my whole HiPoint!

Watching Forgotten Weapons, I noticed that Ian has mentioned that some direct blowback subguns have a very mild recoil whereas others don't. Apparently it has to do with careful receiver design (mainly length) and choice of springs and bolt weight.
 
Last edited:
Update: I've currently got an AR9, Ruger PCC, and KUSA K9 carbine. Have shot all of them in matches. The AR 9 is my current favorite. The K9 is listed here. I'm thinking about listing the Ruger. Still looking at the Striborg, Scorpion, or a Kriss Vector. Leaning toward the Vector due to the recoil system.

Opinions on the Vector?

Thanks.
 
GregB said:
I've shot a Scorpion and my first impression "was wow, that trigger sucks!". I'm leaning toward the Ruger or an AR 9 or even the Sub 2000. At the matches I'm shooting I've seen a couple of Sig MPX's. One which was having mag/feeding issues and lots of AR 9's. Have seen several Sub2000's (amongst my fellow, near the bottom shooters). I'm not one of the top tiered shooters at these events. I'm usually close to the bottom. I'm okay with just a gun that will run and be accurate enough. I enjoy shooting and figure the more matches I shoot the better I'll get. Given the cost and availability of ammo right now, I may put this on the back burner for a bit. However, you know how it is when you want something new. LOL. Did I mention I just sold a pistol on consignment :)
Click to expand...
Between Ruger and Sub2k, Ruger all day and twice on Sunday. I've had both. Have the Ruger PCC and PC Charger. The inaccuracy claims are bunk.
 
GregB said:
Update: I've currently got an AR9, Ruger PCC, and KUSA K9 carbine. Have shot all of them in matches. The AR 9 is my current favorite. The K9 is listed here. I'm thinking about listing the Ruger. Still looking at the Striborg, Scorpion, or a Kriss Vector. Leaning toward the Vector due to the recoil system.

Opinions on the Vector?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Its cool in a novelty kind of way.
 
Even though you have bought I like the ergonomics and dependability of the Beretta CX4. Its a great shooting weapon. If you could get the trigger down to at least 5 lbs it would be wonderful.
 
jjwestbrook said:
For accuracy in a pcc. Try the hornady hap bullet. I was able to get 2" at 100 yds from an mpx from the bench. By far the best accuracy of anything else i tried. Anything round nose opened up at 50 tds and beyond
Click to expand...
HAP are awesome - just XTPs that aren't scored for expansion. Like a solid JHP - very accurate and great for longer ranges.
SWCs are also quite accurate but I don't push the coated bullets too fast.
 
I haven't shot 3-gun in forever and I know it's become more "gamey" than before. But, I read all of this and keep wondering, they're letting PCC's substitute for rifles? Is it a sub-catagory? I mean it's a pistol cartridge in an easier to shoot form factor and for me hardly and indicator of rifle shooting skills.


Just sayin'
 
Last edited:
I don't know if they are literally substituting for rifles but most PCCs are blowback with heavy bolts that generate similar recoil to a 5.56 IMHO. They are also a disadvantage past 100yds requiring holdovers so IMO it may balance out.
 
The AR, Ruger, and KelTec PCC’s all run very well, accurate, and feel good in the hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JRHorne said:
The ultimate would be a form 1 SP5 with A2 stock.
Click to expand...
NKD said:
Slacker is likely talking about SBR, not braces.
Click to expand...
Never had any interest in PCCs until recently.....PSA 4 inch upper in a SBR configuration with Burris red dot. A great confidence builder for some shooters. The lower is a DPMS with the PSA adapter...zero malfunctions thus far.
All that to say.....it is nice to have around I guess but it does Nothing that my Hi Point Monkey Gun with a red dot doesn't do. Welllll....it does hold more ammo.....in a learning platform not really an asset.
That's the observation from Here....
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Never had any interest in PCCs until recently.....PSA 4 inch upper in a SBR configuration with Burris red dot. A great confidence builder for some shooters. The lower is a DPMS with the PSA adapter...zero malfunctions thus far.
All that to say.....it is nice to have around I guess but it does Nothing that my Hi Point Monkey Gun with a red dot doesn't do. Welllll....it does hold more ammo.....in a learning platform not really an asset.
That's the observation from Here....
Click to expand...
That Hi Point is 33" long. How much shorter is that PSA SBR?
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Never had any interest in PCCs until recently.....PSA 4 inch upper in a SBR configuration with Burris red dot. A great confidence builder for some shooters. The lower is a DPMS with the PSA adapter...zero malfunctions thus far.
All that to say.....it is nice to have around I guess but it does Nothing that my Hi Point Monkey Gun with a red dot doesn't do. Welllll....it does hold more ammo.....in a learning platform not really an asset.
That's the observation from Here....
Click to expand...
IMO PCCs are an excellent choice for home defense, not only for inexperienced shooters but anyone who doesn't relish the idea of touching off a 5.56 in their hallway. As with any long gun, without training the best idea is to stay put in your bedroom (or safe room, etc.) call 911 and let the BGs come to you. WIth a PCC you have high capacity, high rate of fire, better controllability/accuracy than a pistol and less blast, much less than with a rifle which is a good thing indoors. I'd rather see a grandmother armed with a PCC than anything else, followed closely by a low recoil load in a pump shortgun.

My bedside HD gun (supplimented with various other firearms ;)) is a 9mm braced pistol as well.
 
Last edited:
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Never had any interest in PCCs until recently.....PSA 4 inch upper in a SBR configuration with Burris red dot. A great confidence builder for some shooters. The lower is a DPMS with the PSA adapter...zero malfunctions thus far.
All that to say.....it is nice to have around I guess but it does Nothing that my Hi Point Monkey Gun with a red dot doesn't do. Welllll....it does hold more ammo.....in a learning platform not really an asset.
That's the observation from Here....
Click to expand...

MY PCC exists for only one reason: range/competition/fun. It's fun to shoot fast at steel stuff and other stuff, preferably on a timer while running around.
All the controls are AR controls so any fun I have is also training for my main love: AR15 shooting. Any technique transfers over nicely. But it's much cheaper.

Noobs like it because it's not loud and it's fun, and I can load ammo for it. It takes drop in AR triggers. I have a hard time finding a downside to be honest.
 
GregB said:
Looking to buy a PCC to shoot at local 3 gun and IDPA matches. Must have a 16" barrel per IDPA rules. One of the three gun matches has @3" steel at @ 75 yards.

That being said I've considered the Sub 2000 and the Ruger PCC on the low end ($400-$600), or even a mag block conversion, but I worry about reliability. Have heard the the Ruger isn't accurate enough. Don't know about the keltec. The mid range option is an AR 9, possibly a PSA. On the high end I've considered the Scorpion ( trigger would have to be replaced), one of the 16" AK 9's, or a Kriss'. Like the Sriborg but would have to SBR it or not shoot it in IDPA. Not sure if the three gun venues would let me shoulder it or not. I'm pretty frugal by nature, so it's hard for me to splurge on the high end if something 1/2 to 1/3 the price will do.

Thoughts?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I love my 9mm colt-mag AR. I've had every barrel size on it and it shoots great no matter what. IIRC the 9mm round performs well in longer barrels.

9mm1.jpg
 
NKD said:
What am I looking at here?

I see buttons and levers and stuff everywhere......
Click to expand...

The black "lever" is just the stupid device California makes you use. The silver "button" is just a magnet stuck to the other side of the safety selector pin. I chose this one because the "lever" quickly and easily pulls out with the use of the magnet, converting it to a normal mag release in a couple seconds.

www.supertoolusa.com

Supertool Compliant Rifle Lock

Supertool Compliant Rifle Lock
www.supertoolusa.com www.supertoolusa.com

Otherwise it's a perfectly normal AR-pattern rifle. I realize the mag release probably seems very stupid to people outside California, and it is for sure, but have you seen the hell that is the featureless rifle? If you don't use the special mag release then you go featureless, or, register your rifle as an assault weapon. I wasn't going to do either of those things so here we are.
 
TrueMFG said:
The black "lever" is just the stupid device California makes you use. The silver "button" is just a magnet stuck to the other side of the safety selector pin. I chose this one because the "lever" quickly and easily pulls out with the use of the magnet, converting it to a normal mag release in a couple seconds.

www.supertoolusa.com

Supertool Compliant Rifle Lock

Supertool Compliant Rifle Lock
www.supertoolusa.com www.supertoolusa.com

Otherwise it's a perfectly normal AR-pattern rifle. I realize the mag release probably seems very stupid to people outside California, and it is for sure, but have you seen the hell that is the featureless rifle? If you don't use the special mag release then you go featureless, or, register your rifle as an assault weapon. I wasn't going to do either of those things so here we are.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh, now I see. I have seen them.

I'm from Cali, too. I feel ya brother!
 
GregB said:
Looking to buy a PCC to shoot at local 3 gun and IDPA matches. Must have a 16" barrel per IDPA rules. One of the three gun matches has @3" steel at @ 75 yards.

That being said I've considered the Sub 2000 and the Ruger PCC on the low end ($400-$600), or even a mag block conversion, but I worry about reliability. Have heard the the Ruger isn't accurate enough. Don't know about the keltec. The mid range option is an AR 9, possibly a PSA. On the high end I've considered the Scorpion ( trigger would have to be replaced), one of the 16" AK 9's, or a Kriss'. Like the Sriborg but would have to SBR it or not shoot it in IDPA. Not sure if the three gun venues would let me shoulder it or not. I'm pretty frugal by nature, so it's hard for me to splurge on the high end if something 1/2 to 1/3 the price will do.

Thoughts?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I currently own
Kalashnikov KP9 - best in class , smooth cycling accuracy is really good
PSA AR9 - had this one the longest (built when I sold my Sub2k)
Ruger PC - I’ve had zero issues using OEM and Magpul Glock mags. Accuracy is outstanding- I’ve made 100 yard shots. I wish I had the charger version for a shorty takedown

I used to own
Kel tec sub2k - this had a short window before everyone else jumped in the market - horrid trigger, can’t fold with an optic , poor sights & charging handle
 
GregB said:
Looking to buy a PCC to shoot at local 3 gun and IDPA matches. Must have a 16" barrel per IDPA rules. One of the three gun matches has @3" steel at @ 75 yards.

...

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The MCARBO version of the Sub2000 (i.e. all MCARBO internal mods already installed) with the MCARBO optic mount ... or a carbine-length CZ Scorpion with the following mods from HB Industries: Mini AK Style Safety Selectors (so the selector doesn't dig into the meat of your primary hand), aluminum/machined mag release, EVO3 reduced weight trigger spring kit, EVO3 Delta Trigger or similar, EVO3 extended charging handle, EVO3 trigger pack hardware refresh kit ... and if your Scorpion is a world-legal one, you'd also need the Scorpoin welded trigger pack drill kit).

I own both firearms and I like them for VERY different reasons. Either is competition-worthy. Neither of them is without mods, though (again for different reasons). As examples: the Sub2k's polymer feed ramp will prove problematic very quickly with competition shooting, so it needs a feed ramp upgrade. It's OEM trigger is lackluster, too, and spring work helps there, a lot, as does replacement of the polymer trigger (which flexes) with a metal one.

By comparison, the Scorpion needs none of those things, but it's trigger flat-out SUCKS without a trigger job and it's charging handle is entirely too small for competition use, IMHO. Also, the ambi-safety tends to dig into the top of people's hands, on the side of the hand from which the index finger extends when the grip is being utilized. There's a delete option for this last that's cheap, but honestly HBI's lever safety replacements are the bees' knees ... and it's sort of sad that the gun doesn't come with those on from the factory.

You get the idea.

Surreal

P.S. Counter to what BrettB posted, the Sub2k CAN fold with an optic installed -- assuming you have the Red Lion fore end OR the MCARBO optic mount OR the Midwest Industries optic mount (the last of which is pretty lame).
 
Last edited:
My experience has been in building .45acp pcc's. Started with the old blowback Olympic Arms custom uppers but the last 2 were cmmg rotary bolt custom uppers. Lowers are CNC that use greasegun mags. I like the cmmgs a bunch, light, easy recoiling and fast. The OA’s run any profile bullet but the cmmgs are picky. I don’t know anything about 9mm as I only own 1, an old Astra.
 

Attachments

  • 3D2D946C-4C0C-45FC-979D-5844DB0DF839.jpeg
    3D2D946C-4C0C-45FC-979D-5844DB0DF839.jpeg
    71.6 KB · Views: 3
  • 05C9A1E5-35AF-439A-BDD6-4D11300CE16E.jpeg
    05C9A1E5-35AF-439A-BDD6-4D11300CE16E.jpeg
    95 KB · Views: 3
  • 0F1FA181-F75D-4D43-8ABD-114E6F4B5187.jpeg
    0F1FA181-F75D-4D43-8ABD-114E6F4B5187.jpeg
    184.3 KB · Views: 3
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom