Help Needed!! BIL Just Got Arrested Carrying in NJ

Mike Overlay said:
What got him pulled over?
Any way to know if NJ was aware of his NC permit at time of being pulled over?
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Double not thinking and having no guile, and expecting the same from others.
He's a NC CCW, got pulled for looking at his phone/GPS, then informed the officer when he approached the truck ,like we do here, I've got a weapon and handed him his license and permit.
 
bigfelipe said:
Any lawyer worth his salt will get it all dropped to a single charge and pled to time served and probation. Assuming he really is a first time/clean record offender and as reputable as the OP says. That said, he's going to have a record. Question is will it be a felony or can some magic be done and make it a misdemeanor. They let him go (and leave the state) initially. That says they aren't out to crucify him as an example. He did a very stupid thing he should have known better than, though. He's gotta pay the fiddler something...
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I believe you're right on this one. It's just a shame that this man has to be extorted and harassed for exercising his RIGHT. Even though the outcome, he'll have a criminal record regardless of misdemeanor or felony charges, to the tune of which will follow him the rest of his life... And if, he ever finds himself in a precarious situation again with authorities. It'll be shoved in his face again.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
My BIL wasn’t thinking. He drove up to NJ, got pulled and acted like he would here. Informed the officer right away he’s armed and has his permit.
It just happened in Morris Co, NJ, what’s his next best move?
Who should he contact?
Thanks!!
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I lived in NJ and was a part of the 2a community there.

The big name lawyer that always comes up in these cases is Evan Nappen. He does a lot of talks at 2a events with the ever changing laws up there.

I've seen many of these cases before while living up there. I'm going to be frank. Your BIL is in a massive amount of trouble. Massive. If you want, I can post on the NJ gun forum and see if there is anyone on there with current advice. I'm betting a lot of those guys are already aware of this case.

For everyone else, learn from this. You absolutely must check the laws in every state you are traveling to and through. The fact that you shouldn't have to will not save you in places like NJ.

Edit: I checked the rest of the thread. Glad to hear they released him. Unheard of. Must have been some very friendly 2a cops and a DA who didn't jump at the chance to make the papers. I wish your family the best of luck on this. Like I said, shoot me a PM and I can try to connect you to some of the organizations up there.
 
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Is this leagal? said:
I believe you're right on this one. It's just a shame that this man has to be extorted and harassed for exercising his RIGHT. Even though the outcome, he'll have a criminal record regardless of misdemeanor or felony charges, to the tune of which will follow him the rest of his life... And if, he ever finds himself in a precarious situation again with authorities. It'll be shoved in his face again.
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Play stupid games...

I've never met a person who carried and didn't know you couldn't do it whenever and wherever you want. It's drilled into you in the course and by everyone else that carries. I'm dubious that the OP's BIL didn't seem to know that. If I was a betting man, I'd wager he knew and took a chance making the drive anyway, then freaked out and being a more or less honest citizen sold himself out to the cop because he doesn't deal with cops not being a criminal. Most likely he messed up and now he's playing stupid on the law. Sadly we also all know from a young age that ignorance of the law is not a valid defense... I could be wrong. He could be soft in the head or some kind of unicorn that made it to adulthood, carries a gun with a CCW, and works on police stations but never heard or saw any of the signs or information on where you can and can't carry. Like I said, I feel for the guy, but I am dubious...
 
georgel said:
Something like this??o_O
images
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yes.... the speedo healer eliminates skid marks.
 
bigfelipe said:
Any lawyer worth his salt will get it all dropped to a single charge and pled to time served and probation. Assuming he really is a first time/clean record offender and as reputable as the OP says. That said, he's going to have a record. Question is will it be a felony or can some magic be done and make it a misdemeanor. They let him go (and leave the state) initially. That says they aren't out to crucify him as an example. He did a very stupid thing he should have known better than, though. He's gotta pay the fiddler something...
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Unfortunately when states start making charges with "mandatory" sentencing it is almost impossible to have a great or even good plea deal.
 
This helps you to know the laws before you go outside of your home state.

https://www.nracarryguard.com/resources/gun-laws-by-state/

FYI, MD and DC also consider
ANY component of ammunition to be ammunition :mad:
If you are stopped and they see a spent case, individual primer,
shotgun hull from the guy who rented the car the other day,
YOU must have a FOID card to have ammo, period.

Protect yourself.
 
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bigfelipe said:
Play stupid games...

I've never met a person who carried and didn't know you couldn't do it whenever and wherever you want. It's drilled into you in the course and by everyone else that carries. I'm dubious that the OP's BIL didn't seem to know that. If I was a betting man, I'd wager he knew and took a chance making the drive anyway, then freaked out and being a more or less honest citizen sold himself out to the cop because he doesn't deal with cops not being a criminal. Most likely he messed up and now he's playing stupid on the law. Sadly we also all know from a young age that ignorance of the law is not a valid defense... I could be wrong. He could be soft in the head or some kind of unicorn that made it to adulthood, carries a gun with a CCW, and works on police stations but never heard or saw any of the signs or information on where you can and can't carry. Like I said, I feel for the guy, but I am dubious...
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Agreed. I know I have (and posted it here, earlier): when my sister lived in NJ, I carried, but I knew full well the consequences. Same as I know the consequences if I go 75 in a 55.
 
Chuckman said:
Agreed. I know I have (and posted it here, earlier): when my sister lived in NJ, I carried, but I knew full well the consequences. Same as I know the consequences if I go 75 in a 55.
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Knowing the consequences, doesn't necessarily mean you would be willing to accept the Crown's imposition of them. Just saying.
 
noway2 said:
Knowing the consequences, doesn't necessarily mean you would be willing to accept the Crown's imposition of them. Just saying.
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Splitting hairs. If you know the law, you know the consequences, therefore you must be prepared for them if caught. If I carry onto school property I will deal with the consequences if I get caught; I am not going to start a gun battle over it. My version of civil disobedience.
 
Chuckman said:
Splitting hairs. If you know the law, you know the consequences, therefore you must be prepared for them if caught. If I carry onto school property I will deal with the consequences if I get caught; I am not going to start a gun battle over it. My version of civil disobedience.
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I consider death to be preferable to prison. I'm not scared of death, I am of prison.

Knowing the grave and extreme calculus of where it would go, and that I would not submit to being arrested and locked up, is why I don't engage in civil disobedience that would carry those consequences.
 
Cowboy said:
That is more personal responsibility at the point you know the consequences and choose not to follow.
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Agreed. You are correct. One also needs to decide for themselves to what extent they're willing to comply with the concept of law and whether or not said law is right or wrong.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
I now have the same reaction when I see a NE plate as I would seeing a hijab wearer with a wired switch in hand. Those that come here to escape the restrictive high tax lifestyle THEY created, and continue with the yank attitude and voting pattern are the enemy to liberty.
To my brothers that embrace liberty, please know you're welcomed with open arms.
Never owned a confederate flag, now I want to fly one over the house, on the car, etc... but that's not very grey of me.
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Actually, it is very grey of you.

JEB_Stuart_RELee.jpg
 
rdinatal said:
Civil Disobedience, unless it's done when the Crown knows it, it's not...
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I am talking about when outed. Call it guerilla disobedience then. IDGAF about what the .gov thinks about me choosing to breaks the laws I choose to break. I am not getting into their grill about it; nor am I shying away lurking in the shadows. Just livin' my life.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
53-54

I'll share info as I get it. I just got home from work. Here's what I've heard 3rd hand so far:
He was arrested, I was told several officers told the magistrate (or whoever initially charges him) that he just made a mistake and to release him, so he's not behind bars (very good sign). He was travelling through NJ, and he's from (as he pronounces it) Kanaatikut, maybe the yank accent helped.

We should have grabbed lunch! I was in Dillon yesterday.
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That must be where I got the Connecticut thing from?
 
I hope I never have to make such a difficult choice, but if they offered me a non-felony plea deal I'd be on it really fast, even if it meant a short jail time. Felonies are forever but a month in the can is over in a month.
 
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Cowboy said:
Unfortunately when states start making charges with "mandatory" sentencing it is almost impossible to have a great or even good plea deal.
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Depends on how the charges are written and which ones the prosecutor chooses to pursue. The DA has more leeway than you think.
 
What was he doing in enemy territory to begin with?? Can't he say he was just passing through?? Isn't that covered?? You can have a weapon in your vehicle, traveling through a state, where that weapon might not be legal, as long as the state you are going to does not restrict that weapon, Right??
 
phideux said:
What was he doing in enemy territory to begin with?? Can't he say he was just passing through?? Isn't that covered?? You can have a weapon in your vehicle, traveling through a state, where that weapon might not be legal, as long as the state you are going to does not restrict that weapon, Right??
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He was headed to CT for motorcycle, he pulled off the highway do drop off other dirt bike parts to someone else.
He’s into antique dirt bikes as much as some here are into weapons.
Hopefully he won’t return behind enemy lines again.
 
phideux said:
What was he doing in enemy territory to begin with?? Can't he say he was just passing through?? Isn't that covered?? You can have a weapon in your vehicle, traveling through a state, where that weapon might not be legal, as long as the state you are going to does not restrict that weapon, Right??
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The difference is traveling through with a weapon unloaded locked in your trunk separate from ammo is one thing. Having it on you is a whole other ballgame. Not to mention having hollow points in N.J. As I said earlier I go to N.J. to see my son and when I do I just leave everything home. There are to many hostile states to travel through to get there. Plus what would I do with it when I did get there other then get myself locked up. It's not worth the risk.
 
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Cowboy said:
Unfortunately when states start making charges with "mandatory" sentencing it is almost impossible to have a great or even good plea deal.
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And...here is where we all start going sideways:

We scream that we need to get hard on crime. Enforce the laws on the books without making new ones. Stop cutting plea deals for felons.

So, states get rid of the pleas that get people off of felonies with slaps on the wrists and no longer allow negotiations. They start enforcing the laws on the books and not letting people off with a slap on the wrist.

But...then someone we know gets busted and we are all “they should be able to plea something down, I mean, this wasn’t that bad...he is a good guy...”

These laws suck. They should be changed. No doubt in my mind. And while I pray he finds some magical way out of this, he did screw up and will now have to pay for it. Even here when we joke about “free men do free men stuff” when we talk about carrying in places that are posted we all do so knowing that if we get busted then there will be a piper to pay.

But as Red in Shawshank Redemption said, prison is full of people who didn’t do it.


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B00ger said:
And...here is where we all start going sideways:

We scream that we need to get hard on crime. Enforce the laws on the books without making new ones. Stop cutting plea deals for felons.

So, states get rid of the pleas that get people off of felonies with slaps on the wrists and no longer allow negotiations. They start enforcing the laws on the books and not letting people off with a slap on the wrist.

But...then someone we know gets busted and we are all “they should be able to plea something down, I mean, this wasn’t that bad...he is a good guy...”

These laws suck. They should be changed. No doubt in my mind. And while I pray he finds some magical way out of this, he did screw up and will now have to pay for it. Even here when we joke about “free men do free men stuff” when we talk about carrying in places that are posted we all do so knowing that if we get busted then there will be a piper to pay.

But as Red in Shawshank Redemption said, prison is full of people who didn’t do it.


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Defense attorneys are slimy scum sucking leches, and that’s bad...until you need one.
 
JimB said:
Defense attorneys are slimy scum sucking leches, and that’s bad...until you need one.
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I agree...but that first word in your sentence is unneeded


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B00ger said:
And...here is where we all start going sideways:

We scream that we need to get hard on crime. Enforce the laws on the books without making new ones. Stop cutting plea deals for felons.

So, states get rid of the pleas that get people off of felonies with slaps on the wrists and no longer allow negotiations. They start enforcing the laws on the books and not letting people off with a slap on the wrist.

But...then someone we know gets busted and we are all “they should be able to plea something down, I mean, this wasn’t that bad...he is a good guy...”

These laws suck. They should be changed. No doubt in my mind. And while I pray he finds some magical way out of this, he did screw up and will now have to pay for it. Even here when we joke about “free men do free men stuff” when we talk about carrying in places that are posted we all do so knowing that if we get busted then there will be a piper to pay.

But as Red in Shawshank Redemption said, prison is full of people who didn’t do it.


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Wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have volumes of victimless crimes clogging up the system
 
vaskeet said:
It was close and so many gun owners right here were against it!!!!!! It will never get through the House again unless we regain control in 2020
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Whose we? Certainly you don’t mean those stupid, slimy, stinking, Repugna-freaks?
 
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B00ger said:
And...here is where we all start going sideways:

We scream that we need to get hard on crime. Enforce the laws on the books without making new ones. Stop cutting plea deals for felons.

So, states get rid of the pleas that get people off of felonies with slaps on the wrists and no longer allow negotiations. They start enforcing the laws on the books and not letting people off with a slap on the wrist.

But...then someone we know gets busted and we are all “they should be able to plea something down, I mean, this wasn’t that bad...he is a good guy...”

These laws suck. They should be changed. No doubt in my mind. And while I pray he finds some magical way out of this, he did screw up and will now have to pay for it. Even here when we joke about “free men do free men stuff” when we talk about carrying in places that are posted we all do so knowing that if we get busted then there will be a piper to pay.

But as Red in Shawshank Redemption said, prison is full of people who didn’t do it.


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Excellent point B00g.

If I may add something that I don't think has been mentioned, but if so, my apologies.

This story didn't have to get this far. Today's word of the day......."Discretion".

No matter the law, something that could have been applied in this case we're discussing but wasn't, is discretion.

I can't speak for anyone else but I know what I would have done if I was a NJ LEO who pulled over a NC resident who had a valid CC permit, no outstanding warrants, and was upfront with me from the very start of our encounter.

Discretion..........it can be used in some cases. When it's not used and the circumstances allow for it, then the only conclusion I can come to regarding the character of the arresting officer is that he/she is a Richard Cranium at best.

That's my take anyway.
 
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Since some of us are armchair QB'ing, I'll throw in my 2 cents...

I'd have tried to bluff my way out of it. Take the cell phone/GPS ticket on the chin, play it cool throughout the encounter, and drive on home. If the cop shifted gears and asked me out of the car or something, I'd come clean then. But up until then--including being asked if there is anything in the car--what he doesn't know literally can't hurt him, in my case. I'm not going to shoot him, and he has no reason to fear me. I wouldn't take it full-tilt stupid and fight about it. With such a high-risk game (leaving free or facing felony charges), it's worth the attempted bluff.
 
Qball said:
Excellent point B00g.
I can't speak for anyone else but I know what I would have done if I was a NJ LEO who pulled over a NC resident who had a valid CC permit, no outstanding warrants, and was upfront with me from the very start of our encounter.
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I agree, @B00ger got me to thinking about this differently. We had a post on here a while back where an officer in DC (maybe like the parking garage at the Smithsonian?) saw/found/discovered a weapon and let the citizen leave town quietly. He didn't get a felony charge for something that wasn't even illegal ten miles south of there. Maybe in this NJ situation, the officer wasn't able to do that because other officers were present and overheard, or it was somehow recorded. I expect that management wouldn't look kindly on an officer looking the other way from an obvious felony charge.

The whole idea of getting busted for something you own, vs. something you do, is just stupid anyway. Just having it shouldn't be a crime; doing something bad with it should be.
 
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