Help pick an RMR

Which one?

  • Viper

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Venom 3moa

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Venom 6moa

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • FF3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 100.0%

  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .

BigWaylon

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I've never shot a pistol with an optic. I've never shot any firearm with an RMR. But, all my rifles have Vortex SPARCs (the first one, 2moa dot) installed, so I've shot red dots before.

I bought a SiCo Maxim 9 a week or so ago and it comes precut for an RMR. Thought I'd give it a shot. I don't know much about them, or what I'd want or don't want. That being said, if I had to buy one today I think my short list would be:

Vortex Viper
Vortex Venom

Looks like the Viper is a 6moa and the Venom has either 3moa or 6moa depending on model (although the Venom 6 seems to be OOS most places I checked).

6moa seems large, but maybe on a handgun that works better? I am 20/15 in each eye (20/12 with both open).

What do I need to know? And what other options should I consider? I know I hear Burris FF3 often, but not sure how they compare.

This is the compatibility chart for the mounting plates that SiCo offers, so I'd like to limit myself to choosing from this list:

IMG_9270.JPG
 
I see you're in Charlotte. I have a G-19 with a Triji 6.5 adjustable you're more than welcome to try out if you want. I'll even take it off and you can put it on your gun and try it if you would like. Just let me know if you're interested.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
I have a vortex venom 2 unused it you want to try it out.
 
Some general notes...


On a handgun bigger dot equals faster target acquisition. It's not a precision instrument so the big dot helps with speed. Lots of steel speed shooters go with 8 and even 12 MOA optics for this reason.

Some mini reflex sights require the optic to be removed from the mount to replace the battery. Some don't. Decide before you buy if this is important to you.

Some will be always on, some will require you to push a button to turn them on. Again, decide if this feature is important for your use.

I own a couple of Vortex Viper 6MOA dots but I use them on 10/22s set up for steel. Good optics. Require you to turn them on intentionally. Require removal for battery change. The Venom doesn't require removal for battery swap. Pretty sure it does require you to turn it on though....

Trijicon makes an always on LED RMR. I believe it is available in 3.25 and 6.5 MOA versions. They require dismount to change battery but battery life is a couple years.

Trijicon dual illuminated (Tritium/ fiber optic) never require batteries and are available in dot and triangle versions up to 12.9 MOA. I would go with one of those personally. I have 3 and will have more.
 
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I see you're in Charlotte. I have a G-19 with a Triji 6.5 adjustable you're more than welcome to try out if you want. I'll even take it off and you can put it on your gun and try it if you would like. Just let me know if you're interested.
Interested. Two small issues as far as putting in on mine.

I haven't even mailed the F4, yet...so I won't have it for awhile. The Triji looks like it's the only one that uses Plate 2, so I'd have to order one and then sell it off if I went a different route.

Probably better to just eyeball it on your G19.
 
I have a vortex venom 2 unused it you want to try it out.
What is the 2?

What size dot?

You planning on using it? Or selling it?
 
Some mini reflex sights require the optic to be removed from the mount to replace the battery. Some don't. Decide before you buy if this is important to you.
The Venom looks like it would have an advantage in this category:

Our top-load system makes changing the CR 1632 battery a snap and alleviates the need to remove the sight when switching the power source.
 
Gotcha. You can shoot my 19 as much as you want to see if you like how the dot is, and not spend money on the plate.
Interested. Two small issues as far as putting in on mine.

I haven't even mailed the F4, yet...so I won't have it for awhile. The Triji looks like it's the only one that uses Plate 2, so I'd have to order one and then sell it off if I went a different route.

Probably better to just eyeball it on your G19.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
The Venom looks like it would have an advantage in this category:

Our top-load system makes changing the CR 1632 battery a snap and alleviates the need to remove the sight when switching the power source.

Yep. Has a smaller battery and cover that removed from the top. I don't think it has an always on feature though. To me that is an important consideration in a defensive forearm. I could be wrong on that point as I don't own a Venom.
 
Yep. Has a smaller battery and cover that removed from the top. I don't think it has an always on feature though. To me that is an important consideration in a defensive forearm. I could be wrong on that point as I don't own a Venom.
I'm reading this as I could choose Auto, and turn it on before I chose to carry it (if for some reason I opted to carry it)...and would have 14 hours of it on.

Or if I did Manual, I could turn it on and it stays on until the battery dies.

(Or manually turn it off in either mode)

Is that what y'all see?

Brightness Adjustments
The Venom red dot has two brightness modes, Auto and Manual. Auto mode will increase or decrease
in brightness depending on the ambient lighting conditions. In auto mode, the unit will power down after 14 hours to save battery life. Manual mode is controlled by the up/down buttons and will not power down automatically.
• To engage Auto mode, press and hold up arrow until the dot ashes three times.
• To engage Manual mode, press and hold up arrow until the dot ashes two times.
 
The viper and venom with work the same as far as on/off goes. Hit the brightness up to turn it on. Hold brightness down to turn off. If this is a defensive pistol you're only real choice is the always on trijicon rmr or a Leupold Delta point that turn on when you move it.

By the time you can pick this pistol up, the new aimpoint pistol red dot may be out and worth looking at though.
 
What is the 2?

What size dot?

You planning on using it? Or selling it?
I've had it sitting in a drawer since I got it 9 months ago. I'd sell it. Let me check the dot size.
 
I have 2 Trijicon RMRs and a Deltapoint Pro. I prefer the RMRs on my carry guns due to them being more compact, but the deltapoint has a much bigger field of view and since I doubt you will be conceal carrying that Maxim 9, I would take a serious look at the Deltapoints. They are very rugged optics and use a side load battery so no need to ever remove it and they they have an auto off feature that turns it off it isn’t moving for awhile and powers back on soon as you pick it up.
 
I have 2 Trijicon RMRs and a Deltapoint Pro. I prefer the RMRs on my carry guns due to them being more compact, but the deltapoint has a much bigger field of view and since I doubt you will be conceal carrying that Maxim 9, I would take a serious look at the Deltapoints. They are very rugged optics and use a side load battery so no need to ever remove it and they they have an auto off feature that turns it off it isn’t moving for awhile and powers back on soon as you pick it up.
I was looking at a Deltapoint Pro today with the 7.5 triangle and 2.5 dot. They were pretty nice, I think I would prefer the 7.5 triangle on a pistol. The DP Pro is noticeably bigger than the RMRs though. Seems like more would have to be milled out of a slide or get even higher sights if you want to cowitness. I haven't searched yet to see how many holsters out there would fit it either.

Garand talking about DP and RMR, FWIW.
 
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I was looking at a Deltapoint Pro today with the 7.5 triangle and 2.5 dot. They were pretty nice, I think I would prefer the 7.5 triangle on a pistol. The DP Pro is noticeably bigger than the RMRs though. Seems like more would have to be milled out of a slide or get even higher sights if you want to cowitness. I haven't searched yet to see how many holsters out there would fit it

They are definitely bigger, but you wouldn’t necessarily need to mill deeper. Leupold makes a integrated rear sight that can attach directly to the optic and then you would just need to get a pretty tall front sight to co-witness with it, I believe a .460 height will work.
 
They are definitely bigger, but you wouldn’t necessarily need to mill deeper. Leupold makes a integrated rear sight that can attach directly to the optic and then you would just need to get a pretty tall front sight to co-witness with it, I believe a .460 height will work.
I saw the ones that Suarez is putting on their slides and even for the smaller RMR the front sight looks huge. Almost like you would have to worry about the wind pushing the front sight around, lol. That would definitely take some getting used to.
 
IMHO, what you choose will ultimately be determined by how you want to use it, how it will be mounted (slide vs frame) and how much money you are willing to spend. Range toys vs competition pistols vs self defense pistols will all require a different type of sight.

If this is going to be a mostly self defense kinda thing, I would go with a Trijicon RMR and a 6 MOA dot. The battery life and sight durability is phenomenal. So is the price but it is worth it just because of what it is. It is always on and tough as nails. In fact, I have one laying on my bench now that is still burning a dot and the battery hasn't been changed in well over a year. That is pretty impressive in my book. The only reason I didn't love mine for competition was the limited lens view compared to the other RDSs available. I always said if Trijicon would make the lens just a tiny bit bigger, they could totally own both the tactical and competition markets. Having said all that, I still own a Trijicon 6 MOA red dot sight. It has been beat to hell and just won't stop working.

If this is going to be mostly a range toy or competition type pistol. Go with the Vortex Venom. I have two of them and they are great sights for what they cost and yes, there is a reason why they are usually out to stock most places. The price is hard to beat and the sight is built well. Go with the 6 MOA dot. In fact, unless you are going with the Leupold Delta Point, stay with a 6 MOA dot regardless of what your end use will be.

The Leupold Delta Points are great sights and if I was going to buy one, I would go with the 2 MOA dot. It is the brightest 2 MOA dot I have ever seen. I am not a fan of the 7.5 MOA triangle but that is just me.

I own a few Burris red dots that I think are 2 or either 3 MOA dots (I don't remember) but I can tell you I wouldn't buy them again. In fact, one of them is dead at the moment and needs to go back for repair. I have seen the 6 MOA Burris and it is a much better looking dot than the 2/3 MOA dots. I don't think I would buy one though unless it was a screaming deal.

I would stay far away from the Insights. I know a couple of guys that had that dot and they didn't hold up more than a few hundred rounds as a slide-mounted sight.

CMORE makes a lot of different red dot sights. The CMORE sights are great for competition. I know nothing about the CMORE STS versions but I do use a couple of RTS 6 MOA models on competition guns. Initially, these RTSs had their issues holding up under competition conditions but they are now on, I believe either version 3 or 4 of their circuit boards and seem to be holding up well in competition.

These are my thoughts on red dot sights for pistols based on my experiences in competition, general plinking and self defense uses. As always, ymmv.
 
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IMHO, what you choose will ultimately be determined by how you want to use it, how it will be mounted (slide vs frame) and how much money you are willing to spend. Range toys vs competition pistols vs self defense pistols will all require a different type of sight.

If this is going to be a mostly self defense kinda thing, I would go with a Trijicon RMR and a 6 MOA dot. The battery life and sight durability is phenomenal. So is the price but it is worth it just because of what it is. It is always on and tough as nails. In fact, I have one laying on my bench now that is still burning a dot and the battery hasn't been changed in well over a year. That is pretty impressive in my book. The only reason I didn't love mine for competition was the limited lens view compared to the other RDSs available. I always said if Trijicon would make the lens just a tiny bit bigger, they could totally own both the tactical and competition markets. Having said all that, I still own a Trijicon 6 MOA red dot sight. It has been beat to hell and just won't stop working.

If this is going to be mostly a range toy or competition type pistol. Go with the Vortex Venom. I have two of them and they are great sights for what they cost and yes, there is a reason why they are usually out to stock most places. The price is hard to beat and the sight is built well. Go with the 6 MOA dot. In fact, unless you are going with the Leupold Delta Point, stay with a 6 MOA dot regardless of what your end use will be.

The Leupold Delta Points are great sights and if I was going to buy one, I would go with the 2 MOA dot. It is the brightest 2 MOA dot I have ever seen. I am not a fan of the 7.5 MOA triangle but that is just me.

I own a few Burris red dots that I think are 2 or either 3 MOA dots (I don't remember) but I can tell you I wouldn't buy them again. In fact, one of them is dead at the moment and needs to go back for repair. I have seen the 6 MOA Burris and it is a much better looking dot than the 2/3 MOA dots. I don't think I would buy one though unless it was a screaming deal.

I would stay far away from the Insights. I know a couple of guys that had that dot and they didn't hold up more than a few hundred rounds as a slide-mounted sight.

CMORE makes a lot of different red dot sights. The CMORE sights are great for competition. I know nothing about the CMORE STS versions but I do use a couple of RTS 6 MOA models on competition guns. Initially, these RTSs had their issues holding up under competition conditions but they are now on, I believe either version 3 or 4 of their circuit boards and seem to be holding up well in competition.

These are my thoughts on red dot sights for pistols based on my experiences in competition, general plinking and self defense uses. As always, ymmv.
Great post, thank you @ncav8tor ! May I ask why you are not a fan of the 7.5 triangles on the Leupolds?
 
Great post, thank you @ncav8tor ! May I ask why you are not a fan of the 7.5 triangles on the Leupolds?

It is just a personal preference for me. You basically just put the point of the triangle where you want the bullet to go. The triangle itself is huge and that is what I don't like about it. I know others that really like it a lot. I would suggest if you are thinking about getting one, try to find someone that has one and check it out before you drop the coin on it.
 
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I'm not sure I know the difference between an RMR and an MRE. What I do know is that @Zbizzle911 carries with a red dot. Maybe he can share his experience.
 
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I'm not sure I know the difference between an RMR and a MRE. What I do know is that @Zbizzle911 carries with a red dot. Maybe he can share his experience.

@BigWaylon

I have an RMR06 type 1 on my p320. It’s the adjustable led one. It’s always on. So far I love it. It took a bit to figure out how was best to find the dot. I’ve not changed the battery yet. Probably will this fall. That will make a year. Your more than welcome to try it out at pha one day if you’d like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Neighbor just texted to see if I was in the middle of supper (as he'd just seen me wrapping up a project in the driveway). When I said no, he asked if I could meet him in my garage.

So, I headed out and he comes over with a bag in his hand. Needs something assembled and figured I had the tools. Pulls out his Maxim 9, rail price and RMR mounting plate. :D

He just wanted the rail piece mounted today. He's thinking he's going with the Venom. After we had a little "discussion" about available dot sizes (he was convinced there was a 2moa version...turns out he was thinking about the Crossfire he'd also been looking at), it turns out I might get to put my hands on one pretty soon.

The Maxim is his first NFA item. I sent him to Scott, and that's what he decided to buy. :cool:

I'm really leaning toward the 6moa Venom at this point. At first I wanted the smaller dot, but got to thinking...a 6moa is only ~3" at 50yds, and when am I going to shoot a handgun much further than that? Plinking and HD are really the only two things I see me using it for.
 
I really like my leupold delta point with a 2.5 dot. Great for up close and personal and smallish bright dot is spot on for distance.
 
How important is cowitnessing with an RMR on a handgun? I have all my ARs setup with an absolute cowitness, but assumed it didn't work that way with factory sights on a pistol.

However, I had a guy on ARF post this pic:

IMG_9708.JPG

He achieved it using a mount other than the SiCo one designed for the Maxim 9.
 
Here’s my p320 with suppressor height sights

17d1f1d7889a3c98786e7e9e4aaa6080.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
How important is cowitnessing with an RMR on a handgun? I have all my ARs setup with an absolute cowitness, but assumed it didn't work that way with factory sights on a pistol.

However, I had a guy on ARF post this pic:

View attachment 63243

He achieved it using a mount other than the SiCo one designed for the Maxim 9.
Interested in seeing more about this.
 
How important is cowitnessing with an RMR on a handgun? I have all my ARs setup with an absolute cowitness, but assumed it didn't work that way with factory sights on a pistol.

However, I had a guy on ARF post this pic:

View attachment 63243

He achieved it using a mount other than the SiCo one designed for the Maxim 9.

To me co witness is not an issue. Im not going to war or if I do end up in a self defense situation, I dont see it lasting long enough for the dot to go bad.
If on the range and the dot fails, just fix it or go to something else
 
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I would pass on the Shield RMS. I had one and couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
The Vortex are the best bang for the buck IMO.
Here is a Viper on a M&P with suppressor sights.

IMG_1124.jpg
 
Care to elaborate?
The whole thing is plastic and seems very cheap. It looks like they have came out with a newer version that looks to be better but at that price point I would go with a Trijicon myself.
I have had them all and I have settled on the Vortex dots as they have been utterly reliable for me. Sometimes to many options make it hard to decide.:D
 
The whole thing is plastic and seems very cheap. It looks like they have came out with a newer version that looks to be better but at that price point I would go with a Trijicon myself.
I have had them all and I have settled on the Vortex dots as they have been utterly reliable for me. Sometimes to many options make it hard to decide.:D
As I understand it from the reviews, the SMS was a plastic body, but the RMS is aluminum. Is the SMS what you're talking about?
 
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