Here it comes: Democrats (& backstabbing repubs) & Gun Control
- Thread starter grungewehr39
- Start date
- Replies 109
- Views 4,124
The democrats know this won't pass. It is political maneuvering to set up the republicans to appear as uncaring supporters of school shootings and also to further energize the left democrats. You can bet this failed effort by the democrats will be used in the 2020 election by them and will be directed to the urban/suburban female population.
It is a no-win scenario for the republicans; they can only hope that their base supports them with this and other unpopular adult decisions that the populist democrats rail against such as immigration and the Federal debt. Unfortunately the republican base is generally an apathetic and lazy group and can't be bothered to vote.
I don't think 2020 is going to work out well for the country.
It is a no-win scenario for the republicans; they can only hope that their base supports them with this and other unpopular adult decisions that the populist democrats rail against such as immigration and the Federal debt. Unfortunately the republican base is generally an apathetic and lazy group and can't be bothered to vote.
I don't think 2020 is going to work out well for the country.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
to celebrate Pe-lousy reassuming her House Leadership position, I just purchased a new firearm from a private seller who received said firearm in a trade from another private seller. Stick that in your waddle-neck craw and Suck it Nancy!
OP
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/01/11/dianne-feinstein-pushes-ban-205-semiautomatic/
This right here is the what really scares the hell outta me:
Forbes reports that Feinstein reacted to the passage of the 1994 federal “assault weapons” ban by lamenting that she could not round up the votes to go house-to-house to collect firearms. She said, “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them … ‘Mr. and Mrs. America, turn ’em all in,’ I would have done it.”
This right here is the what really scares the hell outta me:
Forbes reports that Feinstein reacted to the passage of the 1994 federal “assault weapons” ban by lamenting that she could not round up the votes to go house-to-house to collect firearms. She said, “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them … ‘Mr. and Mrs. America, turn ’em all in,’ I would have done it.”
Don't write this off. As I posted in an earlier thread, it will pass the House easily. And all they need are four Senate R's. As someone else pointed out, they will need 14 R's to vote for cloture, but a lot of R's that are willing to vote against it in the final bill will vote for cloture, citing the "need to have a national conversation about guns". Then it goes to the President, who promised us national concealed carry reciprocity, but instead took away our bump stocks administratively, in a move that Obama wanted but didn't think would stand up in court. I think our situation is far more perilous than most of us realize.
Don't let it scare you.
Well, let me rephrase.
Let the fear it produces be the fire which steels your resolve to do the necessary work to be ready to meet it head on as a Free Man.
You have to choose to Live Free or Die, and it's got to be more than a morale patch, window decal, or license plate.
Last edited:
As far as chess goes,
1) What does Trump want more than anything? The Wall.
2) What do the Democrats want more than anything? Gun Control.
What do politicians do best? Make deals.
1) What does Trump want more than anything? The Wall.
2) What do the Democrats want more than anything? Gun Control.
What do politicians do best? Make deals.
This is a popular sentiment around here and it is BS. No, you won't do "free things". You won't shoot that banned rifle at the public or commercial range anymore, you won't shoot a full standard capacity magazine at the range anymore when they are outlawed. If they outlawed all guns you wouldn't be able to even sight in a rifle or train like you used to. You'll sneek around with your contraband and tell yourself you're free. Laws matter, and pretending we don't need to fight this now is not helpful.They can pass what they want. Free men will do free men things. It will just make 'criminals' out of the otherwise law abiding, and really piss off a heavily armed seqment already fed up with Federal BS.
Last edited:
This, what you’ve posted, is the publicly acceptable narrative. Posting statements to the contrary is not only frowned upon in social circles, it likely violates forum rules. Therefore, this is the only side of the narrative that gets published. Aside from that, some topics are best only discussed privately in what is commonly called the meat space.
We all know that the PPP in NC is idiotic and a clear violation of the second amendment, but in my experience every one of us asks to see one (or a CHP) when we sell a handgun in a private transaction. Some sellers may not collect the piece of paper, but most do and a frightening number ask for additional paperwork.
If laws pass prohibiting private sales, then there will be no private sales. If laws pass prohibiting or limiting sales of ammunition, there will be no other sales of ammunition.
It is unlikely in my opinion that they will collect guns by force, they’ll restrict commercial activity and then start taxing, adding semi-auto rifles to the NFA registry for example. This creates risk that the entire structure of gun control laws will be found unconstitutional, which is the only thing that will slow them down after the 2020 election.
No group of freedom loving Americans privately plotting to overthrow the government by force in the event of the passage of gun control is ever going to amount to a hill of beans. Thinking you’ll be part of such a group is delusional, thinking that such a group will save our second amendment rights is fantasy. Any such “warriors” will he remembered like the abortion clinic bombers of the 1970’s (or was it 1980’s), which is to say not at all, and will be equally ineffective.
Unfortunately the political situation continues to erode. It is becoming more and more distasteful to accept the republican party, whose candidates are ineffective. As a group they failed to accomplish much, for better or worse, even when they controlled both houses of congress and the white house. Individual republicans in Congress expect to lose the senate and White House, so they will start giving democratic leadership what they want in an attempt to stay reasonably relevant after 2020.
I think that we need to break the two party system.
If laws pass prohibiting private sales, then there will be no private sales. If laws pass prohibiting or limiting sales of ammunition, there will be no other sales of ammunition.
It is unlikely in my opinion that they will collect guns by force, they’ll restrict commercial activity and then start taxing, adding semi-auto rifles to the NFA registry for example. This creates risk that the entire structure of gun control laws will be found unconstitutional, which is the only thing that will slow them down after the 2020 election.
No group of freedom loving Americans privately plotting to overthrow the government by force in the event of the passage of gun control is ever going to amount to a hill of beans. Thinking you’ll be part of such a group is delusional, thinking that such a group will save our second amendment rights is fantasy. Any such “warriors” will he remembered like the abortion clinic bombers of the 1970’s (or was it 1980’s), which is to say not at all, and will be equally ineffective.
Unfortunately the political situation continues to erode. It is becoming more and more distasteful to accept the republican party, whose candidates are ineffective. As a group they failed to accomplish much, for better or worse, even when they controlled both houses of congress and the white house. Individual republicans in Congress expect to lose the senate and White House, so they will start giving democratic leadership what they want in an attempt to stay reasonably relevant after 2020.
I think that we need to break the two party system.
Not sure I am 100% with you here bud.
1. Not everyone asks to see a CHP. Some do, and some go overboard. But I know some who don't care, haven't cared, and wont care. It may be posted here on the site because this place could be used as evidence. But this place, and what is posted here, isn't 100% indicative of the real world.
2. The "no private sales of ammo and guns" thing has to be sarcasm...there are laws banning the sale of alcohol to minors, smokes to kids, weed, cocaine, heroine, meth, porn, and all of these things and more flow through the country like white lightening. Prohibition leads to a black market, that is all.
3. The founding fathers of our country were specifically "freedom loving Americans plotting to overthrow the government by force", the British were marching to disarm the Americans when they left Boston. They got shot. Now I agree, times and men are different now, but freedom loving Americas have been quite effective at eliciting change through violence.
4. We have to all remember that "gun rights" are just one of dozens of strongly held positions people can hold to. My wife, who is more conservative than I am, could care less about firearms. Most of the people I go to church with or are distant relatives are staunchly conservative, but really don't care about firearms. They aren't against them, they just don't really care. They care more about taxes, wasteful spending, entitlement programs, immigration, freedom of religion and generally being left alone.
Our failing as 2A Fanatics is that we assume that a specific political party is completely on board with us. Not all democrats are pro-choice, nor all republicans are pro-gun. So when we feel "backstabbed" by our party for going against what we think they stand for, then we can only blame ourselves. Now, when the candidate I voted for because of a specific thing they said back tracks and goes a different direction, THEN I feel "backstabbed"...it would be like Ted Budd voting for a ban of any kind, or Virginia Foxx voting against veterans, or on the other end Feinstein voting in favor of national reciprocity.
@B00ger I was thinking of commercial sales of ammo, because if it is banned or highly taxed will the folks that have it be selling? As for gun sales, I have seen a number where the law was not followed, but that’s mostly where folks know folks or the cmplcations in he law are such that the seller isn’t aware. Do you know anyone that would knowingly sell to anyone they don’t know with no papers? Would ship a handgun to an unknown private party across state lines? I know folks that have done these things out of ignorance, and I may have done them to be expedient, but I don’t think folks are generally breaking the law.
@SPST look at sales where pot has been legalized, compare that to placed where it has not. Also pot has not been considered dangerous for at least a generation while guns are thought to be more dangerous by each generation, so not apples to apples.
@SPST look at sales where pot has been legalized, compare that to placed where it has not. Also pot has not been considered dangerous for at least a generation while guns are thought to be more dangerous by each generation, so not apples to apples.
Well, yes, I do know a few like that, I wont share names of course, but I have met a few guys through here that absolutely would. Heck some of them would jut because they know it would tick off the ATF. But you are right, most of the other people do it because of familiarity with those doing the buying and selling. Which is another really good reason to generally be a good person and make friends. As far as commercial sales of ammo, that isn't going anywhere. There are enough fudds that need their 5 rounds of 30-06 every year to keep Dicks in business. What >may< stop is the online ordering. We are already seeing that in some states. But you had specifically said "private sales" which I was commenting on.
Who said it doesn't need to be fought now? The problem with a huge portion of the Second Amendment community is their desire to remain within the confines of "the law," regardless of how immoral and corrupt that law may be.
Being a law abiding Citizen when the law is written by the corrupt is not Virtue, and is not some badge of honor to be worn.
YOU won't be doing Free People things because YOU choose to have your privileges dictated to you by a group of bandits who have proclaimed themselves your masters. Not everyone is this way....like the hundreds of thousands of gun owners in New York, New Jersey, etc who openly flaunt the gun laws there, refusing to register or turn in anything, refusing to remove them from the State or destroy them.
There have been open carry demonstrations in which prohibited items are flaunted.
Just because you are a man of no resistance doesn't mean all are such men.
Laws only matter when a population chooses to obey them. Otherwise they're just words on paper. That you revere them as anything more than that is....well, astounding. Public schooling did it's job well.
It is a choice each must make.
I assure you that private transactions between consenting adults involving handguns take place all across the Old North State and ne'er a PPP or CWP e'er pass between them. Your experience may be......limited.
Yep.... that's what stopped all the drugs from being sold. And guns and ammo, for that matter. That's how prostitution was basically eradicated, and the hiring of illegal aliens, too.
There just needs to be a law.
No doubt; there aren't enough LEOs or troops to actually accomplish such foolishness. And they know it.
They also know the 2A community is fractured between the"....shall not be infringed." folks and those who meekly and obediently bend the knee.
Yeah, we just need to vote harder next time. I'm sure this time it'll work out.
And who said anything about plotting to overthrow the government?
Noncompliance and open disobedience is hardly treason.
Last edited:
A few wise words to ponder:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson
"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the constitution.”
― Thomas Jefferson
“It will not be denied that power is of an encroaching nature and that it ought to be effectually restrained from passing the limits assigned to it.” – James Madison
“We may define a republic to be … a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure for a limited period, or during good behavior.” – James Madison
"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...," - Declaration of Independence
Terry
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson
"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the constitution.”
― Thomas Jefferson
“It will not be denied that power is of an encroaching nature and that it ought to be effectually restrained from passing the limits assigned to it.” – James Madison
“We may define a republic to be … a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure for a limited period, or during good behavior.” – James Madison
"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...," - Declaration of Independence
Terry
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/12/new-jersey-magazine-ban-goes-into-effect/#axzz5cawPuZMY
https://joeforamerica.com/2018/12/2nd-amendment-win-boulder/
https://www.thenewamerican.com/usne...-owners-refuse-to-register-under-new-york-law
https://www.nyccriminallawyer.com/conn-police-refuse-to-enforce-new-gun-laws-3-updates/
Not even a 10 second google search pulls up examples of gun owners proving you wrong. Resistance and refusing to obey isn't always strapping on an AK and running into the streets screaming "WOLVERINES!". You cannot ignore the fact that millions of gun owners have refused to obey unconstitutional gun laws.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Someone doesn't know there's an entire class of people who just DGAF. On both sides of the law. But these opinions are mildly amusing to people who understand history. This is probably what happens when you never leave JoCo or Alamance counties lol.
Here on this side of the Yadkin, there's a looooooooooooong history of giving the authorities the middle finger. Google the Hornet's Nest of NC or read a little https://www.cmstory.org/exhibits/hornets-nest/hornets-nest
Because it was the right time to do it, and the right thing to do.
You'll find the modern day counterpart picking up trash at Guilford County Courthouse despite being told not to do it:
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/v...o-cleanup-trash-at-nc-national-park/903748155
Here on this side of the Yadkin, there's a looooooooooooong history of giving the authorities the middle finger. Google the Hornet's Nest of NC or read a little https://www.cmstory.org/exhibits/hornets-nest/hornets-nest
Because it was the right time to do it, and the right thing to do.
You'll find the modern day counterpart picking up trash at Guilford County Courthouse despite being told not to do it:
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/v...o-cleanup-trash-at-nc-national-park/903748155
Last edited:
Chuckman
Senior Member
I would never break the law. But I would imagine that not renewing a CCP may not prohibit someone from carrying concealed; just as a lack of a stamp may not prohibit someone from purchasing a "pistol" upper and attaching it to a lower to turn the pistol into a SBR for home defense. You rolls the dice, you takes your chances.....
You’re right, I said private sales but meant private firearm sales. For ammo, I also agree that we aren’t likely to get to no commercial sales, but that quantities will be restricted and internet sales elim8nated. I was actually thinking about how ammo sellers already won’t ship to certain states or locations, why are they bending to local laws that can’t be enforced against them?
@SPM I agree that current gun control laws are ignored every day, and not just in the south, heck I bet more guns change hands in LA, NY and Chicago every day than in NC in a month. The laws impede commerce, they do not prevent it, exactly like illegal drugs and prostitution, but there are key differences on both the supply and demand sides. Any idiot can produce drugs, become a prostitute, or even become an illegal alien...how many folks do you know that will have the desire and ability to manufacture a gun? We have lots today, but not enough to last forever. Without the US market, how many firms will stop producing small arms? On the demand side, drugs, prostitutes and illegal aliens are like potato chips, folks can’t seem to get enough, but that’s hardly the situation with guns. People that use drugs and prostitutes figure out how to mitigate the risks because they are regular users, someone thinking about buying an illegal gun will not go to that trouble. N the magnitude of risk is wildly different, you can’t hardly get prison time for a drug charge unless you’re black, but I assume that gun charges will come with federal time. All that said, my real point is that the majority of folks should not expect this issue to be resolved by someone else in some magical way.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
I think an important distinction to make is that firearms are not a consumed product. Once an firearm is put into circulation it will stay in circulation until destroyed through use or deactivation. Drugs, alcohol, prostitution even, are all consumed goods. Drugs have to be grown/mixed, alcohol has to be distilled, and even prostitutes grow old and age out. But firearms last (effectively) forever. So even if no other firearm was ever manufactured there are still enough in circulation to arm every man woman and child in the US to have a few. 26 million firearms were produced during Obamas first term alone, 33 million during Clintons era, 16 million during Bush 1. I would wager 99% or more of those guns are still functional today. Heck, I know of 100 year old firearms that are just as effective today as they were 100 years ago. So comparing a product that effectively never expires to one with an extremely limited shelf life isn't overly realistic. So, technically, we do have enough to last for centuries, we just want more because we are collectors and consumers of a product that we love to use.
Pant Suit, aka Zero for Two, would not have done the same thing or worse?
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I reject and take offense at your characterization of me as a man of no resistance. On the contrary, in my post you are replying to I spoke out against what I perceived as a laissez faire attitude toward coming anti gun legislation as if it doesn't matter, because "free men do free stuff", well it does matter and you have no idea what I've done in the past or will do when or if it becomes necessary.
Last edited:
OP
That, I would have expected. But what he did was the equivalent of no reach around.
I understand that, and believe me I have no problem with doing "free stuff" I just think the attitude that laws don't matter is extremely damaging.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Sure it is damaging if you were dealing with reasonableness. But theybare not the ones pushing the agenda of disarmament. Maybe there should be a greater element of fear from the left based on the way they've poked the bear. I'm sure many colonists in 1774 thought the same way about the powder alarm.
Last edited:
Congress would have done more damage and passed a bill, the 'ban' will end up in court because it is flawed.
The US Patent Abstract for the bump stock is clear, the trigger must be activated each time, not a fully automatic modification or add on device.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9605925B1/en
Ironically enough, over here in Dysfunctional Durham we have Dwayne Dixon of Redneck Revolt to thank for Durham's anti open carry statutes being judged unconstitutional last fall, and such charges against him being dismissed.
Not long after, he was arrested for an assault during the Silent Sam riot.
I humbly suggest that if NC passes a red flag law, that he be the first citizen to be flagged.
ETA I personally enjoy these situations where if someone goes far enough left or far enough right they end up in the same place supporting liberty.
Not long after, he was arrested for an assault during the Silent Sam riot.
I humbly suggest that if NC passes a red flag law, that he be the first citizen to be flagged.
ETA I personally enjoy these situations where if someone goes far enough left or far enough right they end up in the same place supporting liberty.
Last edited:
The difference is that "Pant Suit" never said this:
"The eight year assault on your second amendment freedoms has come to a crashing end," Trump told the members of the National Rifle Association, assuring them that they now "have a true friend and champion in the White House."
Terry
Last edited:
Meanwhile, everyone who currently owns one was thrown under the bus! They will have to either turn it in, destroy them or be a felon during the years it will take to litigate and reverse this even if that ever happens. A whole lot of law abiding gun owners have been squashed by that bus.
Terry