How accurate is your rifle? Interesting video discussion

keepcalmandcarryon

keepcalmandcarryon

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First video of this guy I watched as it seems the channel focuses more on hunting but I liked how he tried to define accuracy testing as well as reviewed manufacturers accuracy guarantees.
two 7 shot groups seems a fair measure of a rifle’s accuracy although it will likely make many people sad.
 
Too bad he didn't name names on the rifles. My Tikka wants to talk smack to some Rugers and Savages.
 
Variable said:
Well, I thought this was a little disingenuous. To test the rifle put it in a vice. Take out the human factor as much as possible. Just because you can't shoot MOA doesn't mean the rifle can't.
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This is what the manufacturer would do to test I'd think.
 
Variable said:
Well, I thought this was a little disingenuous. To test the rifle put it in a vice. Take out the human factor as much as possible. Just because you can't shoot MOA doesn't mean the rifle can't.
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His $50 challenge? Maybe but he didn’t say you couldn’t either. The
Point that your rifle isn’t as good as the “accuracy grantee” I think was well presented.
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
His $50 challenge? Maybe but he didn’t say you couldn’t either. The
Point that your rifle isn’t as good as the “accuracy grantee” I think was well presented.
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Well presented and he does have a point.
It seems like there should be guardrails on this kind of claim. Using a vise and selecting Federal Gold Medal Match ammo specifically (or similar). Hunting ammo isn't the same as a Sierra BTHP.
 
I like what he’s trying to demonstrate and the point about industry standards. The the archery industry used to have this problem. Bow manufactures claimed all kinds of crazy bow speeds but no one was testing using the same standards. Finally the International Bowhunting Organization (IBO) developed a standard so bow speeds were a more apples to apples comparison.

It would be nice to see the gun industry develop an across board standards that every manufacture making MOA guarantees must use. I think he went wrong not putting the rifles in a vice. There is now way you can have an apples to apples comparison with a human component pulling the trigger.

What I would love to see is him put several rifles in a vise and show MOA groups, then take the average shooter at the range see how well they perform with the rifle. I think that would be more valuable for shooters to really know it’s more about the Indian than the arrow.
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
what about the fouling shot? allow or not? i can see reasons for allowing it but also see reasons not to.
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I think it depends. If they are going to shoot one round in the vise and let it completely cool back to the beginning temps. Then I would say no. But that would take forever, so I would say fouling shot should be allowed. Would be neat to see the difference with it done both ways.
 
The video has been removed but I saw it a few weeks back. At one time Weatherby had a 1 1/2 inch 3 shot group guarantee at 100 yards with high quality ammo (theirs!) and they would put the paper target in the box with the rifle. I still have a few of them. I never had a "Bee" that wouldn't hold that standard with their ammo. But the 1 moa group is nothing but smoke and mirrors and simply bogus for your standard off the shelf rifle. I've never seen one anyway. I have seen factory rifles shoot 1 moa, or even a bit less, but they cannot do it consistently. And that is the key. Whether the rifle will do it in a vise is a good question but then again one must find the ammo that the rifle "likes". And with different lots of ammo you are right back to where you started. I mentioned in another thread that one of my rifles "averages" 0.8 moa with 5 shot groups. But the range is 0.4 (on a good day) up to 1.2 moa. That's from me recording groups over many days under various conditions. But it is not a factory rifle. If you want a 1 moa or less rifle it will cost you and you won't find it at Academy or BPS. And most likely it will not be something that you want to drag around the woods or climb a tree with.
 
Just as a fun fact - Anschutz includes their factory 5 shot test groups at 50m with every one of their match rifles.

IMG_1304.jpeg
 
Those were some wonky setups I saw those guys using. They're not testing the accuracy of the rifle. They're testing the accuracy of the rifle/shooter/ammo combination. The probable lack of a developed load and the soft mushy part dick with the results.
That said, most factory rifles still won't shoot MOA with any regularity.
To actually test the rifle, you'd need a proper bench, heavy pedestal rest/rear bag combo with correct bags for the stock, all the extraneous crap taken off the rifle and a developed load. Plus a proper scope so you can actually see the exact point of aim for repeatability. And I don't mean "I-can-see-the-bullseye" scope. I mean the "I'm-aiming-at-2-o'clock-on-that-bullet-hole" type mag/res.. You can't aim at what you can't see.
..We used to setup at the GSO show with varmint and BR rifles. Some had test targets. We'd get that crap from some passerby's about they could do that all day with their "Tacticool Shnaufer-Hauzen Sooper Sniper Rifle with an Of-ficial NC Star tactical-plex LPVO".
Ok, Francis.. We're just doing these things cause we really like the "recycled bowling ball" look on a rifle. :rolleyes: 🤣
 
Ha,
Finally the truth for some of these brands.

When I did accuracy testing it was 50 rounds, on ten 2" dots at 100yds.

Here is the procedure if you want a real test.

Setup at 100yds a target with 2" dots with two rows of 5 dots, and label each target #1, #2, #3, etc. clearly.

Procedure:
- String 1: Each target you shoot 1-round, aimed center, for a total of a 10-round string of fire starting the first shot on target #1, you have 5min's to shoot the 10 rounds.
- At the end, each target has 1 shot in or near it. (if semi-auto, the last round will be a bold hold open shot)
- Take a 5 min cool-down break.
- String two shift to the target to the right and shoot target #2 first, and number 1 last.
- Repeat for 8 more cycles.

At the end you have a very unique grouping and a true test of the firearms stable accuracy. IF you are under 1.2 MOA (1.256 inch) for eight of the 10 groups, you got a rock star. If you are under 2.0 MOA (2.094 inches) its average. (we would move these barrels to non-free floated firearms)

John
 
HawgBonz said:
Those were some wonky setups I saw those guys using. They're not testing the accuracy of the rifle. They're testing the accuracy of the rifle/shooter/ammo combination. The probable lack of a developed load and the soft mushy part dick with the results.
That said, most factory rifles still won't shoot MOA with any regularity.
To actually test the rifle, you'd need a proper bench, heavy pedestal rest/rear bag combo with correct bags for the stock, all the extraneous crap taken off the rifle and a developed load. Plus a proper scope so you can actually see the exact point of aim for repeatability. And I don't mean "I-can-see-the-bullseye" scope. I mean the "I'm-aiming-at-2-o'clock-on-that-bullet-hole" type mag/res.. You can't aim at what you can't see.
..We used to setup at the GSO show with varmint and BR rifles. Some had test targets. We'd get that crap from some passerby's about they could do that all day with their "Tacticool Shnaufer-Hauzen Sooper Sniper Rifle with an Of-ficial NC Star tactical-plex LPVO".
Ok, Francis.. We're just doing these things cause we really like the "recycled bowling ball" look on a rifle. :rolleyes: 🤣
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When one of my guns was lot tested at Eley, they don't even keep the gun in the stock. They have a fixed vice with various jaws profiled to the action being tested. It's gripped by the action so the barrel is free floated. At that point, you know what the barreled action is capable of, and if you see spread when shooting, you know that you need to play with your action torque to tighten things back up.
 
Uh.. what is the purpose of all this. If the first shot of a “hunting “ rifle is dead on and I mean right there where you aimed, a second follow up shot should not be required….and I know some game is hard to put down, but we are talking about regular hunting rifles.

For me when I pull the trigger on and game I am hunting one shot should be all I need. Am I a super sniper…..no, just an average shooter who knows his weapons and what they are capable of doing. But my rifle is tuned to me, with my hand loads, me doing my part I will see the results I want…
 
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