How can we learn to shoot like Jack Wilson?

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I’m referring to that lethal moving head shot at what appears to be about 10 yards, right after two 12 ga shotgun blasts right in front of him, and in his general direction. Many of us have watched the video. Over and over.

I’ve shot at moving targets while the shot timer is running. I can land body shots on paper, sometimes even a down zero, or two, if I’m lucky. But a head shot like that? I shoot every week and I don’t think I could make that head shot on the move up the aisle, even with a full size 1911 with a good trigger, and good sights. Much less with my striker fired EDC.

I know we post drills in here a lot. I wonder if there is some more dedicated training/drills devoted to taking this kind of shot in a room full of screaming, moving people, where a BG is shooting back.

My normal carry philosophy is that I carry to defend myself, and my family, which means I am going to un-ass the area first if I can. A sheepdog in church doesn’t have that option.
 
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Ikarus1 said:
Dude was an FBI agent, then became a firearms instructor and owned a range for 20+ years. I'm sure that helps.
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He was a reserve deputy sheriff for about six years, forty years ago, till his regular job got in the way of that part time gig. He did own the range and training enterprise. I think the early reports of him being retired FBI are incorrect as best I can tell.
 
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The great NYPD Stakeout Unit shooter Jim Cirrillo shot 3 men on his first stake out. All he had to shoot at was their heads and them Running down an aisle in a drug store. He was using a S&W Model 10. He got them All. He said in his book that he had set that up on a range dozens of times since and had Never been able to duplicate it. He didn't HAVE to. When he HAD to he delivered. He was a lifetime shooter and trainer.
Ole Jack has probably shot a Bunch of ammo in his time. There are those that say training is a waste of time because it isn't Real. Take every opportunity you can to train. You will come closer to being able to deliver than if you don't.
 
You need a setup and a training environment like this.

 
wvsig said:
You need a setup and a training environment like this.

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We’ve got that gear at H20, but the our mover like that one is not automated. Might need to look into that.
 
fieldgrade said:
We’ve got that gear at H20, but the our mover like that one is not automated. Might need to look into that.
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It might be RC control vs a program action. With some of the RC gear I've got laying around, could make one heck of a mover.

A mover that would flick you the bird when you missed, imagine Johnny 5 talking crap to ya. LOL
 
Djstorm100 said:
It might be RC control vs a program action. With some of the RC gear I've got laying around, could make one heck of a mover.

A mover that would flick you the bird when you missed, imagine Johnny 5 talking crap to ya. LOL
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RC controlled would work great for training. It would also work great for a defensive match stage, although if it wasn’t “random”, i.e. automated, I expect certain competitors would feel like they got unfairly “gamed” since the SO’s who would be running it are also shooting the same stage for score.

I think @Amp Mangum told me that they would tie a cord to the mover, and the other end to the shooter so when the shooter moves, so does the target stand. We’ve not used it in the four years I’ve been shooting there. Might be time to lube the wheels and dust it off.
 
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fieldgrade said:
RC controlled would work great for training. It would also work great for a defensive match stage, although if it wasn’t “random”, i.e. automated, I expect certain competitors would feel like they got unfairly “gamed” since the SO’s who would be running it are also shooting the same stage for score.

I think @Amp Mangum told me that they would tie a cord to the mover, and the other end to the shooter so when the shooter moves, so does the target stand. We’ve not used it in the four years I’ve been shooting there. Might be time to lube the wheels and dust it off.
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In this sport and others, there is always one person to act like a child. One of the reason I got out of the PRS. Although I do miss shooting LR competition.
 
fieldgrade said:
I’ve shot at moving targets while the shot timer is running. I can land body shots on paper, sometimes even a down zero, or two, if I’m lucky. But a head shot like that? I shoot every week and I don’t think I could make that head shot on the move up the aisle, even with a full size 1911 with a good trigger, and good sights. Much less with my striker fired EDC.

I know we post drills in here a lot. I wonder if there is some more dedicated training/drills devoted to taking this kind of shot in a room full of screaming, moving people, where a BG is shooting back.
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A couple of quick thoughts FYI: Ernest Langdon is teaching a course in Franklinville this October that includes some movement drills, where both shooter and target are moving (plus, obviously, a lot of other stuff. It's Ernest Langdon). Also, Apex is having their two day Active Shooter class in March. I haven't taken that class yet, and once again I can't make it for the March version. So I can't testify much about the content, but I'm pretty sure they'll have you do a fair bit of work on shooting in crowds and such, and I think it includes force on force stuff in that context.

As far as what I'm trying to do to increase my ability to shoot like Jack Wilson: from what I've read in various places, like Dave Grossman's book On Combat, the best way to prepare yourself for the stress of combat--as well as you can, which of course isn't necessarily all that well, but beats nothing--is to do simunitions based force on force. I've done airsoft based force on force a couple of times, and I'm planning to do I think maybe four more days of it this winter and spring, but never simunitions. I'd like to change that. They were doing sims at Forcetec in Cleveland last summer, but when I wrote to inquire about it in early September I didn't get a reply. I'm not sure whether the facility is still open. Also, people say that shooting in competitions can do some degree of stress inoculation for you. I'm going to try to step up my competitive shooting this year. Also, I'm planning to finally make it to the simulator at the Sportsmans Lodge.

I've started making sure to actually practice 15 yard head shots, too. I did I think just about 6 of them at the end of practice last week. Fired a good group, but they were shot slow fire with no timer. Now I need to start practicing to a time standard. I'll try to add movement someday. I'm not there yet.

These guys were in Raleigh teaching this class earlier this year. https://strategosintl.com/event/tactics-and-firearms-handling-4-hours-ocala-fl-2/ No disrespect to the people in the Texas church intended, but it looks like most of them could really have used a class like this. I'm keeping my eye on Strategos's schedule to see if they'll offer anything I can get to.

I've got a long training list for this coming year! :) If someone would buy the 10-22 I've got posted, it would help pay for my January and February classes at Apex.
 
Spent the morning running timed drills shooting head shots at 10, then 15 yards with the G48 which I probably haven’t put 200 rounds through before today. Technically, it’s my “wife’s Glock”. :oops:

Timed my draws from my leather "EDC holster” versus the kydex for matches.
Also timed my shots from “low ready” to see just how long a holster draw ads to the equation and to see where I need work.

I have an Apex trigger ordered, and need to scare up some more mags. The shelf was bare at FG&G for these particular mags.

Oh, and we’ll have a Jack Wilson Kills Evil stage set up on the moving target at the next H20 match this month.
 
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Ya'll are talking all kinds high tech stuff.... balloons inflated to "head size" on strings at human height. A little breeze and they move and sway.
Maybe I'll get cheap RC car and have the wife drive it around the yard....
 
The most certain way I know of is shoot NRA precision bullseye pistol matches. When and if you reach master class status you can place shots with confidence.
 
Personal observation of people shooting moving targets, in a match/practice setting, they know it is coming and they mentally f themselves.

Personal method that has worked pretty dang well on swingers, stars, polish plate racks, whatever, don't think about it look at the target not the sights and shoot it. Paintball in my youth was good, no sights, slow projectiles, tons of movement, cover, and friendlies to think about.

I imagine the second scenario will be a whole lot closer to how things would unfold in reality.
 
For all who use timers.....Please do this once and remember THIS time is usually constant.....

Hold your blaster in a safe direction
Close your eyes
Press the trigger when you hear the BEEP!
This is your RAW reaction to the Beeper. It won't go away, unless you try to "cheat the beeper".
We have seen times here from .53 to .17 and all in between.
Times are better with your eyes closed...."system" not open to distractions.

Please. post some of your Raw Reaction times...all here are curious.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
For all who use timers.....Please do this once and remember THIS time is usually constant.....

Hold your blaster in a safe direction
Close your eyes
Press the trigger when you hear the BEEP!
This is your RAW reaction to the Beeper. It won't go away, unless you try to "cheat the beeper".
We have seen times here from .53 to .17 and all in between.
Times are better with your eyes closed...."system" not open to distractions.

Please. post some of your Raw Reaction times...all here are curious.
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We did this in a class, and I was shocked at how slow my reaction time is.
A point for all to remember, at least with regards to shot timers. You go when the beep starts. Not when it stops.
 
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BatteryOaksBilly said:
For all who use timers.....Please do this once and remember THIS time is usually constant.....

Hold your blaster in a safe direction
Close your eyes
Press the trigger when you hear the BEEP!
This is your RAW reaction to the Beeper. It won't go away, unless you try to "cheat the beeper".
We have seen times here from .53 to .17 and all in between.
Times are better with your eyes closed...."system" not open to distractions.

Please. post some of your Raw Reaction times...all here are curious.
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THAT is a fantastic drill! And you are correct, closing your eyes helps the shooter to get out of their own way and allows them to see what they are physical limits and capabilities are. I actually incorporate that into high performance development of the draw, for my clients, with tremendous success.
 
That's a great idea. I just did a reaction time drill with Ryan at Apex the other day and I forget what I got. I want to say it was something like .3? Can't remember. But that was eyes open, aimed at a target. I'll do this version next time I hit the range.
 
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jlw said:
The skillset needed to make that shot is not that difficult to achieve. The steely nerve to do it with "He just shot Charlie!!" as your start signal rather than a beep is quite another.
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^ This.

First and foremost, you have to believe you are capable of achieving it. After that, putting the work in will lead you to results. In my experience, once you have developed the physical skill of being about to hit the desired target, under pressure, the best training methodology to develop the steely nerve is Force On Force and visualization. If you want to perform better at being in a gunfight, you need to put yourself IN a lot of gunfights (so to speak).

FOF open enrollment courses is for sure something we will be developing and having a focus on for 2020!
 
So let me say there are MANY awesome instructors on here. GET TRAINING! In response to this thread I will say there are many factors that go into this. We do teach a 2-Day Active Shooter Response Course that includes many aspects of Force on Force, precision handgun shooting, shooting in crowds, active shooter methodologies, etc. We also teach an awesome Pistol Marksmanship Clinic and other classes such as Force on Force scenarios and things like that. I have also taught church security teams and run them in scenarios often. I wish I could say it is as easy as shooting a pie plate on the range or shooting competitions, but its not. It takes multi-discipline and methodical training. It wont be a one class fix or a one stop shop. I believe it will take a culmination of training practices from varying instructors to say, yep, I would feel comfortable and confident to take that shot in that situation. With marksmanship, it is all about a sights on target and a proper trigger squeeze to make that hit. That is honestly it. Now, factor in draw time, reaction time (mine is roughy .11 on the range), mental training, reactionary training to assess the target, background, foreground. target ID, shot placement, and shot angle all within 5 seconds or less rather than a 5 second fright delay to the shots then another 5 seconds looking for the threat, then another 5 seconds to assess, then another 5 seconds to draw and aim, all while the target, foreground, background, and shot angle are changing. More than anything it is about mindset and mental training under such conditions honing fundamentals while also honing the body's response as well as the ocular and neural feedback and decision making. Long and short, train, train often, and train in different aspects/disciplines. -Ryan
 
We had an electronic game/tester for drag (bracket) racing, it came with a cord for the TV and a throttle. When the light turned green, dump the throttle. In my 20's I was around 0.35, a friend that won a lot was a consistent 0.32.
Billy, I want to try that test now.
Is there a decent shot timer APP that gives a random start? SureFire had a nice one a decade ago.
 
With a normal heart rate, Mr. Jack's heart would have beat approximately 7-8 times in the time he had from start to Shoot. It has been my experience that folks are Way more upset after the shooting is Over. In that first 5 seconds Ole Jack went to Full Auto Pilot in past training. If the prior engagement had taken longer to get going he may have had a higher heart rate, respiration rate, adrenalin dump, auditory exclusion, tunnel vision and pee dribble. In that first 5 seconds when he heard that shotgun-JUMPED- then went Directly to work.
 
Sir Walter uses lots of swingers and stuff at their USPSA matches. They also sometimes use a track mover. They are set to move when you knock over a steel popper.
But they move a lot faster, so headshots are difficult.
Seen many long headshots too.
 
NKD said:
Sir Walter uses lots of swingers and stuff at their USPSA matches. They also sometimes use a track mover. They are set to move when you knock over a steel popper.
But they move a lot faster, so headshots are difficult.
Seen many long headshots too.
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Our mover is activated by a steel popper, but we can set the mover to move slower, which we’ll likely do for the next match.
Don’t want to make anybody’s head explode.
Like that do-bad in the church in TX

Too soon?

:eek:
 
NKD said:
Sir Walter uses lots of swingers and stuff at their USPSA matches. They also sometimes use a track mover. They are set to move when you knock over a steel popper.
But they move a lot faster, so headshots are difficult.
Seen many long headshots too.
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Swingers eh Dave? sounds like your kind of place. wink wink, nudge nudge.
 
You all practicing your head shots need to let me stand behind you with a 140 db air horn, and on the sound of the horn draw and shoot. That's the level of sound from a shotgun blast, +/-. Actually, more like reality of the Texas Church Shooting would be to sound the timer beep, and then blow the air horn as you start your draw. I wonder how close to someone's head you'd have to hold an air horn to simulate a short-barrel shotgun blast inside a sanctuary?
 
dmarbell said:
You all practicing your head shots need to let me stand behind you with a 140 db air horn, and on the sound of the horn draw and shoot. That's the level of sound from a shotgun blast, +/-. Actually, more like reality of the Texas Church Shooting would be to sound the timer beep, and then blow the air horn as you start your draw. I wonder how close to someone's head you'd have to hold an air horn to simulate a short-barrel shotgun blast inside a sanctuary?
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Next Month's Drill!
 
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dmarbell said:
You all practicing your head shots need to let me stand behind you with a 140 db air horn, and on the sound of the horn draw and shoot. That's the level of sound from a shotgun blast, +/-. Actually, more like reality of the Texas Church Shooting would be to sound the timer beep, and then blow the air horn as you start your draw. I wonder how close to someone's head you'd have to hold an air horn to simulate a short-barrel shotgun blast inside a sanctuary?
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train horn
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
With a normal heart rate, Mr. Jack's heart would have beat approximately 7-8 times in the time he had from start to Shoot. It has been my experience that folks are Way more upset after the shooting is Over. In that first 5 seconds Ole Jack went to Full Auto Pilot in past training. If the prior engagement had taken longer to get going he may have had a higher heart rate, respiration rate, adrenalin dump, auditory exclusion, tunnel vision and pee dribble. In that first 5 seconds when he heard that shotgun-JUMPED- then went Directly to work.
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I agree with Billy. I think it happening so fast it was all reaction. No thinking involved. No time for it... The shooter was focused away from him, so no boom stick pointed in Jack's direction to work on his subconscious. No worry about whether he should or should not shoot. Just time to go to work.
 
You guys over think this stuff.

Step 1. Live a life worth protecting.
Step 2. Quit assuming you will rise up to meet the challenge.
Step 3. Learn what right feels like
Step 4. There are no short cuts
Step 5. You have the rest of your life to get it right.
 
Anybody know whether Jack’s SIG P229 was DA/SA, or SA only?
 
fieldgrade said:
Anybody know whether Jack’s SIG P229 was DA/SA, or SA only?
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I’ll answer my own post. It was pointed out to me elsewhere that the P229 is typically only available as “SA only” in the 9mm and 45acp variants of the P229.
 
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