Hydraulic cylinder help

mj1angier

mj1angier

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Back in '78-79 my dad started to use wood to heat our house and got a wood splitter. It has been a work horse- 3 motors, a new hose or 2- but it keeps on working. My uncle used for a few year after my father died and I would just use it ever now and then. It has come home to stay and I was just checking it out and the cylinder was leaking bad. So I thought I would rebuild/ replace it. After working on it for about 3-4 hours I got the oil out, hoses off and, on day 2, the cylinder off. There are not any info stamped on it that is still readable other than"CMI 1407 11(maybe 14)/?? (maybe 83).

Other info:
It's a pin end style, 1 inch pin holes
Outside barrel dia. is 4"
Shaft is 2"
Pin hole to pin hole= 62 extended, 36 retracted

After google fu-ing I can find this kind of what I need, maybe: https://www.magisterhyd.com/product/3-5inch-bore-x-24inch-stroke-pin-eye-hydraulic-cylinder/

or

https://www.magisterhyd.com/product/3-5inch-bore-x-30inch-stroke-pin-eye-hydraulic-cylinder/

Rod is smaller and I think stroke (?) is either short or longer.

Any thoughts?
 
I would just rebuild the cylinder you have on it. Unless something is physically wrong with it or you know of a reason to replace it. You can get new seals and packing kits for them. A good hydraulic shop will do it as well but obviously they charge for the service. Its not to bad getting the ends off them to do it if you have the tools
 
Jp8819 said:
I would just rebuild the cylinder you have on it. Unless something is physically wrong with it or you know of a reason to replace it. You can get new seals and packing kits for them. A good hydraulic shop will do it as well but obviously they charge for the service. Its not to bad getting the ends off them to do it if you have the tools
Click to expand...

I guess the had part is going to be finding seal kit for it. Maybe a shop could do it. It does have some rust on the end of shaft which might be why the seals failed?
 
mj1angier said:
View attachment 208156

Back in '78-79 my dad started to use wood to heat our house and got a wood splitter. It has been a work horse- 3 motors, a new hose or 2- but it keeps on working. My uncle used for a few year after my father died and I would just use it ever now and then. It has come home to stay and I was just checking it out and the cylinder was leaking bad. So I thought I would rebuild/ replace it. After working on it for about 3-4 hours I got the oil out, hoses off and, on day 2, the cylinder off. There are not any info stamped on it that is still readable other than"CMI 1407 11(maybe 14)/?? (maybe 83).

Other info:
It's a pin end style, 1 inch pin holes
Outside barrel dia. is 4"
Shaft is 2"
Pin hole to pin hole= 62 extended, 36 retracted

After google fu-ing I can find this kind of what I need, maybe: https://www.magisterhyd.com/product/3-5inch-bore-x-24inch-stroke-pin-eye-hydraulic-cylinder/

or

https://www.magisterhyd.com/product/3-5inch-bore-x-30inch-stroke-pin-eye-hydraulic-cylinder/

Rod is smaller and I think stroke (?) is either short or longer.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
If you take your time and keep everything CLEAN you should be able to rebuild it for less than $50

A come along really helps getting them apart.
 
If the chrome part of the cylinder is rusted or pitted bad that will take seals out. Depending how bad we have had some luck cleaning them back up making sure no burns and the seals last but again its a guessing game. Brother just got seals for one probably about same vintage from hyd shop in kernersville. If you need the name I can get it but we pulled it apart and he took it by and they matched it up for him.
 
If the chrome has flaked off, the edges will cut new seals. I’ve been working on heavy equip and forklifts for ~30 years, of the ram’s in good shape I’d rebuild it. You may be able to get a cheap functional cyl from Northern or on line.
There are several hyd shops around. There’s one by the fairgrounds, Stone Heavy equipment used to keep A LOT of seals on hand, there’s another shop near Pittsboro (I’ve never done business with them).
If you pack it feel free to contact me, I’ve got some tools and tricks to protect the seals.
 
The hydraulic shop over on moncure/Pittsboro rd behind Carolina Forest products will probably be able to get what you need fairly reasonably. I've done business with them in the past and the are nice folks. I can't remember the name of the shop but there is a little dirt road just past CFP going toward pboro on the left. They're down there at the end.
 
Hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like the cap on the end of the cylinder screws onto the cylinder. If you intend to pack it make sure it doesn't have a set screw in it and if it does remove it before attempting to remove the cap. Once you get it packed and back in use always remember to retract the rod fully inside the cylinder when not in use. This will prevent it rusting.
 
If you want to try to replace it with a new one

Www.surpluscenter.com

Has cylinders at a decent price.
 
Schattenreiter said:
Hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like the cap on the end of the cylinder screws onto the cylinder. If you intend to pack it make sure it doesn't have a set screw in it and if it does remove it before attempting to remove the cap. Once you get it packed and back in use always remember to retract the rod fully inside the cylinder when not in use. This will prevent it rusting.
Click to expand...


That set screw can be a expensive mistake if it has one and you miss it. Dad missed one on a excavator cylinder he was redoing and just thought it was really tight coming off. Until he and another guy rotated it a few rounds and discovered it but it was to late by that point and had messed up threads. It was only a $900 cylinder to replace
 
Jp8819 said:
That set screw can be a expensive mistake if it has one and you miss it. Dad missed one on a excavator cylinder he was redoing and just thought it was really tight coming off. Until he and another guy rotated it a few rounds and discovered it but it was to late by that point and had messed up threads. It was only a $900 cylinder to replace
Click to expand...


Yes it can be. He probably could have taken it to a machine shop and had the treads fixed.

I have replaced just the barrel on some cylinders over the years that cost $5000 for the barrel alone. Seen about everything there is to see happen to one. From splitting the side out to bending the rod like a pretzel. It is costly.
 
So I took it over to a shop in Benson, Arnett Hydraulics. Nice guy, came out to truck to look at it. Knew who made it before he touched it, lol.

Said that to replace the seals and clean up the shaft would be $160. If the shaft would not polish up enough to not cut the new seals, it would cost $400 for new shaft and seals. He said for what its used for, a new one would be around $250 online or at Northern Hydraulics would be the best route. Gave me the correct size and stroke that I need. I would not hesitate to have him do work or send someone to him.

So I have one on order online. Still have to get the new lines but he said they can be picked up in-store pretty easy.

So we will see how it goes from here

Here are photos of shaft and seals:
IMG_1465.jpg IMG_1466.jpg
 
If he didn't charge you to tell you that you did good and good on him for being honest. If you were closer I could have helped you pack it for just whatever the seals cost you.

When you get the new one installed just remember a couple of things.

First before you run it make sure the tank is full of oil but not over full. Check after you move the cylinder some as lines will have to fill also.
Second when you hook up the pins do the rear one first and then slid the push block to it. Do not attempt to start the eng and use the hydraulics to line it up and never put your finger in the hole to see if it is lined up.
Third once it is installed and ready to run cycle the cylinder out then check the oil level. Make sure you didn't use all the oil pushing it out or you will run the pump dry. Pump dry =bad thing.
Don't fill the tank full with the cylinder out. When you retract it the oil used to push it out will return to the tank but it will be a larger volume that needed to push it back in. Tank should only be on the full mark with the cylinder and all the lines full and the cylinder retracted. If it is full when extended then it can over fill when you retract and spill on the ground.
Finally always remember to fully retract the cylinder when not in use. This keeps the rod inside and away from rust.
 
GoWolfpack said:
I would clean up the shaft and deal with a little leakage if I were you, unless you intend to use it very frequently.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Truth is, I zero money in it. So I will give it some love and get the new one for it, lol. Plus I am too old to want to move it a round to tear it apart!
 
Schattenreiter said:
If he didn't charge you to tell you that you did good and good on him for being honest. If you were closer I could have helped you pack it for just whatever the seals cost you.

When you get the new one installed just remember a couple of things.

First before you run it make sure the tank is full of oil but not over full. Check after you move the cylinder some as lines will have to fill also.
Second when you hook up the pins do the rear one first and then slid the push block to it. Do not attempt to start the eng and use the hydraulics to line it up and never put your finger in the hole to see if it is lined up.
Third once it is installed and ready to run cycle the cylinder out then check the oil level. Make sure you didn't use all the oil pushing it out or you will run the pump dry. Pump dry =bad thing.
Don't fill the tank full with the cylinder out. When you retract it the oil used to push it out will return to the tank but it will be a larger volume that needed to push it back in. Tank should only be on the full mark with the cylinder and all the lines full and the cylinder retracted. If it is full when extended then it can over fill when you retract and spill on the ground.
Finally always remember to fully retract the cylinder when not in use. This keeps the rod inside and away from rust.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I am going to print it out, lol.

One question- the hoses had what looks like tefflon tape on the treads. Is it just normal plumbers tefflon tape?
 
Probably but if they are what I suspect they are you won't need any. Take a picture of the end of the hose so I can see just inside of the fitting and also the inside of the fitting it goes to. They look like pipe fittings but with the swivel fitting they should not need the tape. These type fittings seal on a tapered surface in the inside and not on the threads.


Amended to correct an error on my part.

I didn't think about having to move the fittings to a new cylinder. You will need the tape on the threads that are on the fitting were it screws into the cylinder but you should not need it on the hose fitting where it attaches to the fitting.

The threads are a pipe fitting where they go into the cylinder and will require the tape there. The threads on the hose are pipe also but if you look in the end of the hose you will see a concave surface and in the swivel part of the fitting you will see a matching convex surface. That is were the seal occurs on that part.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Schattenreiter said:
Probably but if they are what I suspect they are you won't need any. Take a picture of the end of the hose so I can see just inside of the fitting and also the inside of the fitting it goes to. They look like pipe fittings but with the swivel fitting they should not need the tape. These type fittings seal on a tapered surface in the inside and not on the threads.
Click to expand...

Ok it does look like a flare fitting to a bit.
IMG_1467.jpg IMG_1468.jpg

I think I am going to pick up the fittings when I get the hoses. My luck the old one will fail taking off or putting on new cylinder
 
You can use teflon tape but just becareful not to get it over end of fitting where pieces will come off as bits can get in valves your benefit is wood splitter all ports and hoses are pretty big so it should pass and not hang up in anything. The newer thing most recommend for hyd is the teflon paste. Loctite makes some but its pricey.

Those look to all be npt fittings that one is just a swivel.
 
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We have success! New cylinder and hoses on, filled with new fluid and splitting like a champ.

IMG_1476.jpg

I do have 1 question. The tube that is used to fill the tank has always had a rag with a tin can over it. Dose it need to be that way to breath or can I just screw a plug in it.
IMG_1477.jpg
 
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mj1angier said:
We have success! New cylinder and hoses on, filled with new fluid and splitting like a champ.

View attachment 210831

I do have 1 question. The tube that is used to fill the tank has always had a rag with a tin can over it. Dose it need to that way to breath or can I just screw a plug in it.
View attachment 210832
Click to expand...
It needs a breather. They make then that screw in the same hole
 
Button Pusher said:
Looks like you already have the breather installed. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200640320_200640320
Click to expand...


Negative. That fitting in the pipe is just a fitting. The thing you linked to is a vent but there would not be a hole in the end of it. It only has the hole in the side. It allows air in while keeping rain out.
mj1angier said:
We have success! New cylinder and hoses on, filled with new fluid and splitting like a champ.

View attachment 210831

I do have 1 question. The tube that is used to fill the tank has always had a rag with a tin can over it. Dose it need to be that way to breath or can I just screw a plug in it.
View attachment 210832
Click to expand...


Yes it does need to vent. If you create a vacuum on the tank (which would happen with the cooling of the hyd fluid after use) it will starve the pump for oil and destroy it. The thing @Button Pusher linked to will work or you can make your own simply by drilling a hole in the side of the fitting that is there now and putting a plug in it. Drill the hole under the edge of the fitting in a slightly upward direction so rain water can't get in.

If it was me I would go for something like this.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200675163_200675163

It vents and also filters to keep dirt out. You spent a good bit on it. No need to cheapen out now.
 
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Sweet, it needs some chrome bling to go with that black Ukrainian cylinder! I will put it on order.

Thanks for all the help with this. I am sure it will last as long as I will every want to cut wood!
 
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