I have zero.. no..., less than zero, knowledge on scopes

tanstaafl72555

tanstaafl72555

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I dont' understand the theory of optics. I don't understand how to set them up. I don't know how to sight them in. I don't know what is good for what circumstance.

I clearly need to learn.

Can someone point me to a good simple website or pub where the basic physics of a scope, plus the mechanics of operating it, are spelled out so that an 8th grader can understand it?

I am looking for info on whether it would be better to mount a rail, rings, or screw in directly, a scope on a short barrel Savage 10.

I am looking for suggestions on a decent and reasonably priced scope for that rifle. I am 62 years old and am simply not going to be trying for 1000 yard + shots. I want to hit a deer at 300 yards within a 6 inch radius. That kind of stuff.

I really enjoy learning about new stuff, if I am not overwhelmed with technical terms I don't understand in the process. That is why I am asking for a simple, non technical site to introduce me to the mechanics/physics/basics of this. We can work up from there.

Any suggestions of why you like Nikon/Leupold/Zeiss/Vortex etc etc will also be appreciated. I can probably learn a lot just from the recommendations.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Stop by the house one evening. We'll drink coffee (or whisky) on the porch and talk about it. I can show you a few different models from Nikon, Vortex, Trijicon etc. with a few different reticles and explain the differences.
 
I used to buy 3-9 power scopes, but lately I've moved more to 2-7 range. In my experience, particularly here in the central part of the state where the woods are pretty thick and the fields a little smaller 7 power is plenty for longish shots and 2 power is good for deer moving through trees. Also typically makes for a bit more compact and light package. It's not a huge difference but when you get lucky and bag a deer you've got to then get it plus all your gear back to the truck. Every ounce saved.....
 
rantingredneck said:
I used to buy 3-9 power scopes, but lately I've moved more to 2-7 range. In my experience, particularly here in the central part of the state where the woods are pretty thick and the fields a little smaller 7 power is plenty for longish shots and 2 power is good for deer moving through trees. Also typically makes for a bit more compact and light package. It's not a huge difference but when you get lucky and bag a deer you've got to then get it plus all your gear back to the truck. Every ounce saved.....
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And that's precisely why I have those 2 with me each time. 3-9 on the 243, and a 1-6 on the 300blk. Now if we decide to set up and reach out and touch something then we have better options that would make for a good top of the ridge to the other side of the plot if nobody is out walking around of course.

Basics



 
concepthomes1 said:
@BurnedOutGeek

I'd take @rantingredneck up on his offer even if we only talked about the color of the sky.
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Always room on the porch for another. I always have a pot of coffee brewing and a couple bottles of whisky around. I may even have some bourbon for those who don't appreciate real whisky. :).
 
As far as mounts go, I think that's best left to individual tastes. Make sure to get something from a known, reputable brand though. On bolt action rifles, I often use Leopold bases and rings.

With scopes, its good to spend a little extra for quality. Especially for variable scopes. You can get a great fixed power scope for the price of an average quality variable power. I used to use variable power scopes often, but now I use fixed power almost exclusively. Weaver K4's and Bushnell Fixed 10's are my jam.

For hunting, I wouldn't want anything very high power. A 3-9x or 4-12x would do well for deer sized game out to 300 yards. Personally, I fee that 8-24x's and higher are best suited for groundhogs and paper targets.
 
RedneckFur said:
As far as mounts go, I think that's best left to individual tastes. Make sure to get something from a known, reputable brand though. On bolt action rifles, I often use Leopold bases and rings.

With scopes, its good to spend a little extra for quality. Especially for variable scopes. You can get a great fixed power scope for the price of an average quality variable power. I used to use variable power scopes often, but now I use fixed power almost exclusively. Weaver K4's and Bushnell Fixed 10's are my jam.

For hunting, I wouldn't want anything very high power. A 3-9x or 4-12x would do well for deer sized game out to 300 yards. Personally, I fee that 8-24x's and higher are best suited for groundhogs and paper targets.
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Agreed. My preference for mounts on a bolt action is to get the line of sight/line of bore as close as possible while maintaining proper eye relief and cheek weld. I don't want to have to gooseneck to get into the scope properly. Quality mounts are a must.
 
look at a scope's total magnification number to tell you the useful range.
Divide the objective size by the highest power and if you get less than 4, walk away. That's the pupil diameter and anything below 4 is a useless magnification power. Will not transmit enough light for your eyes, and will cause eyestrain. Of course this is limited by how big of an objective that will fit on your particular setup. I also like to get my optics on just about anything as low to the bore as possible for ergos and accuracy.
I tend to really like small compact scopes on small compact guns.
 
Just a few thoughts that I have experienced over my purchases during a period when optics have grown by leaps and bounds:

1. My first passion was Magnification. I wanted to see the gnat on the target. Then I learned that Magnification was nothing if the glass was terrible.
2. My next passion was Magnification and Glass. I wanted to clearly see the gnat on the target.
3. Then, I looked through a top of the line scope and realized, what good would it be if I can see the gnat on the target clearly, if I am looking through a keyhole. Field of View is important also. Important if you are having to follow targets or transition.
4. Adjustment and Reticle must match... takes a lot of thinking out of scoping. (Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA)
5. First Focal Plane is the only way to go.... it takes a lot of thinking out of scoping.
6. Tracking is very important.... spin them dials and have confidence that it will retain zero. If it doesn't, send it back.
7. I like all of my weapons in the safe ready for action.. grab one and go.. but you really only need one Great Scope... The great think about good mounts is that you can switch between rifles!

And Finally... Buy once, cry once. Do your research and find out which scope everyone is using and make sure they have Lifetime Warranty.
 
VA_GENTLEMAN said:
7. I like all of my weapons in the safe ready for action.. grab one and go.. but you really only need one Great Scope... The great think about good mounts is that you can switch between rifles!
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I like this idea, but wouldn't you have to re-zero every time?
 
VA_GENTLEMAN said:
Just a few thoughts that I have experienced over my purchases during a period when optics have grown by leaps and bounds:

1. My first passion was Magnification. I wanted to see the gnat on the target. Then I learned that Magnification was nothing if the glass was terrible.
2. My next passion was Magnification and Glass. I wanted to clearly see the gnat on the target.
3. Then, I looked through a top of the line scope and realized, what good would it be if I can see the gnat on the target clearly, if I am looking through a keyhole. Field of View is important also. Important if you are having to follow targets or transition.
4. Adjustment and Reticle must match... takes a lot of thinking out of scoping. (Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA)
5. First Focal Plane is the only way to go.... it takes a lot of thinking out of scoping.
6. Tracking is very important.... spin them dials and have confidence that it will retain zero. If it doesn't, send it back.
7. I like all of my weapons in the safe ready for action.. grab one and go.. but you really only need one Great Scope... The great think about good mounts is that you can switch between rifles!

And Finally... Buy once, cry once. Do your research and find out which scope everyone is using and make sure they have Lifetime Warranty.
Click to expand...
And the winner is?!?
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
I dont' understand the theory of optics. I don't understand how to set them up. I don't know how to sight them in. I don't know what is good for what circumstance.

I clearly need to learn.

Can someone point me to a good simple website or pub where the basic physics of a scope, plus the mechanics of operating it, are spelled out so that an 8th grader can understand it?
Click to expand...

An excellent and honest question, as I myself was in the same situation years ago. BTW, I still learning but have a solid basic understanding because of the series “Sniper 101.”




  1. Common oversights / mistakes by shooters,
  2. Make sure your rig shoots constantly at same POI, before blaming optics.

  3. The adjustable eye piece is to focus the “Reticle”, not the POI. Adjust this first.

  4. Using optics at MAX Magnification, don't. Why? 1st Max magnification will amplify any movement and the shooter (MOST) will chase the POI. So, if one wants to use 18x , suggest getting a 24x scope, etc. There are a few other reasons as well.

  5. A 30MM or 35MM tube lets more light in, NO it does not. Larger tubes lend themselves to a sturdier construction and Total MOA for (Mainly ) Elevation & Windage. So what lets more light in? Watch the series shared below.

  6. Seems to be a BIG thing over using a “First Focal Plane or Second Focal Plane.” Both have advantages and disadvantages. IMHO, for short ~ medium and 1,000yds SFP works. For very Precise shooting or competitive shooting a FFP may be in line.

  7. Big controversy on this one, whatever scope rings you use , do yourself a favor and at least check the ring alignment.

    In the series , Rex continuously hammers and is against “Second Focal Plane” scopes. This is mainly because he is an Extreme Long Range Shooter. Don't get lost in the FFP vs SFP debate right now.
There is one scope that has been reviewed that I would buy if I was not fully involved with what I currently run. The scope is Primary Arms 4-14x44 HUD and yes I believe it is a FFP and that is NOT why I like it.



Hope this helps and Safe Shooting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sniper 101 series, Part 14 to 22 talk about scopes





SWFA SS 10X42 vs Primary Arms 4-14x44 HUD ~ Rex Reviews ~ DM vs ELRP shooting



How to zero a rifle in 30 seconds
 
Exile_D said:
@VA_GENTLEMAN what was the one Great Scope you ended up going with?!
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Oh.. my bad... I really feel that it is different for each shooter and their need.

If I was to buy a new scope: S&B or US Optics; however, I am hearing the Vortex Razor 2's are very very good.

I went with the Steiner T5Xi as my "Great Scope"... mostly for the reticle, glass and warranty. Had some issues with first run, have a new gen2 that is working fine.

All of my scope rifles actually have Weaver Tacticals... okay glass, great tracking and good FOV. Good enough to pull out and do the job.
 
VA_GENTLEMAN said:
Oh.. my bad... I really feel that it is different for each shooter and their need.

If I was to buy a new scope: S&B or US Optics; however, I am hearing the Vortex Razor 2's are very very good.

I went with the Steiner T5Xi as my "Great Scope"... mostly for the reticle, glass and warranty. Had some issues with first run, have a new gen2 that is working fine.

All of my scope rifles actually have Weaver Tacticals... okay glass, great tracking and good FOV. Good enough to pull out and do the job.
Click to expand...
Now those are some very nice scopes! Unfortunately they have the price tag to match. One day maybe! ;) Which T5Xi did you go with? The higher magnification ones have a pretty impressive reticle!

Now if/when those Weaver Grand Slam Tacticals go on sale on Natchezss, then I might be able to get one.
I do know to stay away from the Kaspa models though. Actually any Weaver that isn't a Grand Slam, Super Slam or Classic V is supposedly not worth the time/money.
 
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Exile_D said:
Now those are some very nice scopes! Unfortunately they have the price tag to match. One day maybe! ;) Which T5Xi did you go with? The higher magnification ones have a pretty impressive reticle!

Now if/when those Weaver Grand Slam Tacticals go on sale on Natchezss, then I might be able to get one.
I do know to stay away from the Kaspa models though. Actually any Weaver that isn't a Grand Slam, Super Slam or Classic V is supposedly not worth the time/money.
Click to expand...

I went with the 5x25 on the T5Xi... awesome reticle. I can set zero for 300 and have holds up to 1200. I would stay away from the Kaspa...

I will tell you this, I had a Weaver go bad in a comp, sent it to them and they sent me a brand new scope. This was after 5 years of competition and it went through the ringer. I use the same guns as my hunting rigs and the Weavers really gather the light! I really like the EMDR reticle, it has simple mil dot with half-mil hash.

I agree.. Weaver Tactical, Grand/Super Slams are the only ones I would by. FFP's too..
 
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Scope guys, I have a question. Yesterday I sighted in a new Leupold rimfire VX-1 on a little break-open Rossi .22 single shot rifle. Once sighted in, I shot three quarter-sized groups at 30 yd, resting on a sandbag. Then my groups went to hell, spanning six inches or more. I did not change my shooting technique, and the later shots looked and felt the same as the good groups. All shooting from the same batch of CCI standard velocity.

It's a real simple gun, and I can't find anything that would cause this. The scope was carefully mounted on the factory-threaded barrel with Leupold rings and a Weaver base; everything is tight. Is it possible that opening and closing the break action caused the scope's zero to shift? I did not close it violently but I suppose there is some shock associated with closing the action. I cannot see anything wrong. What's going on?
 
Red Marley said:
Scope guys, I have a question. Yesterday I sighted in a new Leupold rimfire VX-1 on a little break-open Rossi .22 single shot rifle. Once sighted in, I shot three quarter-sized groups at 30 yd, resting on a sandbag. Then my groups went to hell, spanning six inches or more. I did not change my shooting technique, and the later shots looked and felt the same as the good groups. All shooting from the same batch of CCI standard velocity.

It's a real simple gun, and I can't find anything that would cause this. The scope was carefully mounted on the factory-threaded barrel with Leupold rings and a Weaver base; everything is tight. Is it possible that opening and closing the break action caused the scope's zero to shift? I did not close it violently but I suppose there is some shock associated with closing the action. I cannot see anything wrong. What's going on?
Click to expand...

Do a quick check on the mount and rings for tightness and rigidity. Breaking it open and closing would be a key difference versus a bolt or semi... (close to a semi in terms of torque or movement, but not quite).

Once you get it back in... try to break open and close softly (if possible) and see if you get the same results.

Then try it normal and see if you get the same results...

Logically eliminate all of the possible causes. Good luck!
 
I have really gotten to where I like DNZ mounts. It is a lightweight one piece mount that is designed to fit exact brands of rifles. Keeps the scope low to the bore and eliminates certain failures like rings becoming loose from mounts.

I am a fan of Nikon, Leupold, and for hunting Swarovski Z scopes. I think for the money it is hard to beat a Nikon Prostaff.

I agree that high magnification amplifies any mistakes or movement on behalf of the shooter. I usually dont like to go higher than 12x.

Good luck in your search. I really love optics. Clarity, repeatability, and weight are usually what I base my scopes on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Red Marley said:
Once sighted in, I shot three quarter-sized groups at 30 yd, resting on a sandbag. Then my groups went to hell, spanning six inches or more. I did not change my shooting technique, and the later shots looked and felt the same as the good groups.
Click to expand...

So,

Good groups then went to hell

OR

Good groups then went to hell, then good groups again?

Need to determine if scope or rifle is a fault, or sometimes ammo.

All fasteners on rifle tight?
Scope mounted securely?

Might want to try the following on the scope; look through it while someone taps on the scope tube with a wooden spoon, wooden pencil , etc. Tapping not enough to damage the finish or deform the tube, by far. While looking through it and the view changes while tapping, then scope is primary suspect. Another scope test, remove it , hold it firmly and shake the piss out of it. If you hear any noise from the inside, scope is suspect.

Rifle, clean chamber and barrel, check crown.
Can also shoot the rifle with open sights, or if no open sights are mounted you can look down the barrel with the rifle secured to see how it groups on its own, no scope.


Edit, one other scope consideration, when you zeroed your rig how far is the scope adjusted from the scope's mechanical zero to obtain zero mounted on your rifle? The closer a scope zeros to its mechanical zero the better.
 
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Thanks guys; I pretty much did all of that before posting. I can't come up with any other explanation for it so I think closing the action is jarring the scope, which overhangs the breech by a couple of inches. I've decided to return this little peashooter to open sights and try this scope (which is a brand new Leupold) on a different rifle - without a break-open action! Still interested in ideas, especially from anyone who has used a scope on a break-action rifle.
 
One thing that I did not know is that Air Rifle's are very hard on "normal scopes". I read an article about it a few months back that said that the action of the piston, air, etc.. of an Air Rifle will cause most scopes to fail. That just didn't ring true with me... but evidently it is...
 
Red Marley said:
and try this scope (which is a brand new Leupold) on a different rifle
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You may want to consider returning the scope.

Any scope that loses it lunch through normal use on a break action rimfire it not worth too much.

You fully realize that once the scope in question has been compromised it doesn't matter what it's mounted on.

If a VW Bug has a tire that will only hold 20 pounds of air the same tire won't hold 32 pounds of air just because it gets mounted on a Jaguar.

Good Luck , Safe Shooting
 
Red Marley said:
Thanks guys; I pretty much did all of that before posting. I can't come up with any other explanation for it so I think closing the action is jarring the scope, which overhangs the breech by a couple of inches. I've decided to return this little peashooter to open sights and try this scope (which is a brand new Leupold) on a different rifle - without a break-open action! Still interested in ideas, especially from anyone who has used a scope on a break-action rifle.
Click to expand...
If it is a Leupold, then you should contact their customer service, it is excellent. They have been helping me pick the correct scope and get the right parts for mounting it on my rifle. So far, I have been very impressed with them.
 
Red Marley said:
Scope guys, I have a question. Yesterday I sighted in a new Leupold rimfire VX-1 on a little break-open Rossi .22 single shot rifle. Once sighted in, I shot three quarter-sized groups at 30 yd, resting on a sandbag. Then my groups went to hell, spanning six inches or more. I did not change my shooting technique, and the later shots looked and felt the same as the good groups. All shooting from the same batch of CCI standard velocity.

It's a real simple gun, and I can't find anything that would cause this. The scope was carefully mounted on the factory-threaded barrel with Leupold rings and a Weaver base; everything is tight. Is it possible that opening and closing the break action caused the scope's zero to shift? I did not close it violently but I suppose there is some shock associated with closing the action. I cannot see anything wrong. What's going on?
Click to expand...
Old age.
 
I am not all that experienced, but I have learned that you can't cheat physics and you generally get what you pay for with optics. That $150 scope from China will likely not perform like the $750 scope from Japan or the US. And the German/Euro scopes are better. How much $$ that is worth is your call. Clarity and low light performance are the obvious signs to look for, but the sound/feel and repeatability of the turrets is huge too.
 
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