I'm so confused Min vs Max loads

PepNYC

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My head hurts.

What the heck is up with these manuals? I have 3. Hornady, Lee and Lyman. All give me totally different min/max loads for the same powder. Let's take Titegroup for instance. Here's the data.

Titegroup - Hornady 9mm Luger 115gr FMJ-RN

Lee - Min 4.5gr Max 4.8gr
Hornady - Min 3.7gr Max 4.1gr
Lyman Manual - (Doesn't have a 115gr FMJ-RN. Only 115gr JHP) Min 4.0gr Max 4.5gr
Hodgdon website matched Lee - Min 4.5gr Max 4.8gr

Need some advice here.
 
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Most people use reloading manual data to get in the ballpark of a safe reload. OAL lengths might vary based on magazine dimensions, barrel profiles and bullet profiles. I load all my 9mm to right around 1.125-1.30.

It all just depends on the firearm where in Saami specs you might fall with regard to OAL.

With regard to different powder weights, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish, I.e., plinking load vs mimicking a factory round, competition round, etc.


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Pressure. Pressure is what generally determines what is safe or not, and that is what MAX loads supposedly are based on. So that depends on the barrel length, OAL, etc etc.

In short, don't get into reloading if you don't understand how to experiment safely. With jacketed bullets, I've never seen a pistol load in a manual that worried me. I've loaded lead bullets so hot in .45 ACP that 1 mag of 8 rounds leaded my barrel and I could tell those loads were HOT! Still probably was safe, pressure-wise. I was 10% over book max but going by the MidwayUSA 'pressure based' load data instead of a manual.
 
Most people use reloading manual data to get in the ballpark of a safe reload. OAL lengths might vary based on magazine dimensions, barrel profiles and bullet profiles. I load all my 9mm to right around 1.125-1.30.

It all just depends on the firearm where in Saami specs you might fall with regard to OAL.

With regard to different powder weights, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish, I.e., plinking load vs mimicking a factory round, competition round, etc.


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It's very confusing when one says a Max load of 4.1gr and the other says a Min load at 4.5gr. Will I blow my gun up if I go above 4.1? Will I have a squib if I go below 4.5? Geez.
 
It's very confusing when one says a Max load of 4.1gr and the other says a Min load at 4.5gr. Will I blow my gun up if I go above 4.1? Will I have a squib if I go below 4.5? Geez.

No, you won’t blow up you gun.

When you look at those loads, pay attention to velocity and the pressure of the particular load. Read the intro that all manuals write regarding their load methodology. Some even tell what firearm they used in their testing. Don’t just refer to the load data, read the manual.


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Pressure. Pressure is what generally determines what is safe or not, and that is what MAX loads supposedly are based on. So that depends on the barrel length, OAL, etc etc.

In short, don't get into reloading if you don't understand how to experiment safely.

That's kinda like trying to get a credit card without credit. I want to reload (get a credit card) but how am I going to experiment (get credit) without reloading (without a credit card)? That's why I ask you guys. That being said, I will not shoot any reloads until I know they're safe. (Use the credit card responsibly). :)

I don't plan on using lead bullets any time soon so not worried about that. Thanks for the info. I'll read up on the pressure aspect a bit more.
 
It's very confusing when one says a Max load of 4.1gr and the other says a Min load at 4.5gr. Will I blow my gun up if I go above 4.1? Will I have a squib if I go below 4.5? Geez.

look at the charges. you're talking 10% powder difference. if it were me and I was worried, I'd split the difference and work my way up to 4.5
 
Different manuals and companies can have different data, depending on the methods they use, and even the firearm they're using for testing.

A general rule of thumb is to start on the low end when starting a new caliber or new powder/bullet combo, and work your way up. As you move up, look for high pressure signs. Overly flattened primers, cracked cases, difficult extraction, etc. Any of these can indicate that you're shooting too hot and you need to back down.

Its also never a bad idea to reference one or more manuals just to see how much difference you see between them. Always start low. I personally rarely go over the mid-point load in a manual. While some reloaders do it, I would't use any load not found in a published manual or manufacturer website.

I use mostly Hornady bullets, and mostly Hodgedon powder, so I have a Hornady book and I use Hodgedon's website to check my loads. I like Hornady's manual, because they tell which firearm they used for testing.
 
I've never loaded .41Mag to max levels & get pretty impressive numbers without beating myself up. I've loaded some warm 200gr .45ACP, but standard pressure 230gr are more pleasant to shoot in a 1911.

.357Max is a different story, however. I bought that beast with the intent of redlining it o_O Also loaded 1000s of rounds of .45 & .41, before I went there & did a bunch of research on the Max before I loaded a single round for it.

Read the ABCs, work up slowly & you'll be fine.
 
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Welcome to Reloading!

First off, Lee does not develop ANY load data, they simply publish whatever data the powder manufacturer has published. For instance, if a load in the Lee manual lists Bullseye powder, go to the Alliant website and you will find the same data, but often with more information than is shown in the Lee book.

Different bullet manufacturers will have different bullet profiles from one another, with slightly different materials, and may require different charges for similar pressures.

Shorter OALs will decrease case volumes, which increases pressure, which will require reducing the charge.

Always err on the side of caution, start low and work up. I really like having a chronograph as feedback during load testing. I rarely go for max charges, I usually find an accurate, soft shooting load that cycles my gun reliably and call it good. No point in beating up your gun or your hands.
 
You aren’t likely to blow up your gun unless you double charge, so don’t do that.

You’re unlikely to get a squib at the min charge, but if you do you just knock it out and try again.

When you first start just load a few rounds to test, if they are too soft to operate the slide then load a few more with .2g more powder. That’s not the fastest or best way, but it’ll get you started.

FWIW, if I check 3 or 4 sources and one is an outlier that I can’t explain I generally ignore it. I don’t use Lee data because it’s not a distinct source, more a compilation.
 
If you use plated bullets, the Speer data for their TMJ bullets are useful.
 
This
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You can safely start at the lowest minimum you can find at any reasonable OAL. Some semi-autos may not cycle, the bullet will leave the bore.

Load 5-10, so you aren't pulling or tossing a bunch.

Increase by 0.2gr or so until you get reliable cycling, and hopefully the accuracy you seek. Stay below the highest max charge for that weight. If you notice a sudden change in recoil or report, swelled brass, flattened primers STOP.

Suggest figuring out you OAL by using the "plunk test". Search the term.
 
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Dude.......dont over think it...... There will be slight variations in published data for various reasons. Pick one at a minimum charge....load about 10 rounds. Increase charge .2 grains , load 10 more and so on until you get close to the max. Try them out starting from the lowest charge and find what you like. Take some factory 115 grain ammo with you to have a comparison. Look up reloading pressure signs...
 
One suggestion, but it isn't very scientific. Look at how far factory ammo ejects from your gun (semi-auto). If you are using a slower burning powder (consult a burn-rate chart) then you can watch how far your brass is ejected and compare that to the results with factory ammo. I would only use this method with slow burning powders, though. The faster burning powders will reach a high peak pressure but have a lower recoil and therefore less energetic ejection (most semi-autos are short-recoil operated).

Pressure signs are different depending on the particular cartridge. Both 38spl and 45acp are low pressure rounds, and you won't see the same pressure signs you would see with other cartridges, like 40 S&W or even 9mm. But for just about any cartridge, if the fired cases look very dirty with lots of soot down the sides, then that is a sign of low-pressure - there isn't enough pressure to expand the brass and form a good gas seal.

But like @BowWow said, don't overthink it. When I first started loading, I picked the most conservative min load from the load data I had and tried it. If it did not cycle the gun, I upped the charge a little and tried again, but I never went past max published data. Once I found a load that shot well, I stopped there.

My standard procedure now is to load up either 5 or 10 rounds of each charge, from min to max, and take them all to the range. I start low, check each for pressure signs, and I also use a chrono. I stop when I see anything I don't like, such as pressure signs or a velocity that is higher than expected. I've come back from the range several times with rounds that I did not shoot, and end up pulling the bullets from those.
 
What are some other good manuals? I have Lyman, Hornady and Lee.

Sierra

The reason for disparate data is simple. Different testing equipment, different components being tested, different barrels, different powders and lots, different ambient conditions and most importantly, different lawyers.

Use some common sense. Know how to read a burn rate chart. Start low and work up carefully looking for pressure signs and stop at best accuracy point (hint- it's very often nowhere near a max load)
 
A lot of people are recommending soft shooting loads, just what is needed to reliably cycle. One thing to keep in mind is that some powders burn dirty and smokey at mid to low pressures but nice and clean at close to max. One example is Alliant Unique. So if you're getting a lot of unwanted smoke try bumping up the charge a bit.
 
For me, I take the average of the high and low charge and average published velocity and start from there. 99% of the time never going over the max load and that 1% of the time might be in a 6.5 CM rifle.
 
back to the OPs recipe.......

TG is a very fast pistol powder. I've settled on about 4.4gr for 115s and 4.2 for 124s. Think I got that data from the Hornady manual.
They cycle everything I have well, feel like factory ammo and similar speeds just over 1100fps. That one is a no-brainer.

I really don't do .2 gr increments for pistol anymore, just pick the midpoint and see what the Lee disc throws closest to it, and bam.
Not like I'm shooting 100 yd 5-shot groups with it. Shooting steel with a handgun doesn't require SDs in the low teens.
 
back to the OPs recipe.......

TG is a very fast pistol powder. I've settled on about 4.4gr for 115s and 4.2 for 124s. Think I got that data from the Hornady manual.
They cycle everything I have well, feel like factory ammo and similar speeds just over 1100fps. That one is a no-brainer.

I really don't do .2 gr increments for pistol anymore, just pick the midpoint and see what the Lee disc throws closest to it, and bam.
Not like I'm shooting 100 yd 5-shot groups with it. Shooting steel with a handgun doesn't require SDs in the low teens.

I also am using 4.2 Gr of TG for 124 Gr Precision Delta FMJ & HP. 1.125-1.13 OAL.


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If it helps, I decided to go check my logbook.

RMR 115 fmj, seated to 1.100". Winchester small pistol primers.
AA#7 - Shot from 16" AR carbine
7.5gn, 1435fps.
7.9gn, 1493fps. Best 10 round group, 1.35" @ 50 yards.
8.1gn, 1503fps.
8.3gn, 1551fps.
8.5gn, 1572fps.

RMR 115 fmj, Win small primer
Shot from 16" carbine, and 4.75" Witness Elite Match (EM)
5.9gn, Carbine 1440fps, EM 1208fps. Unburned powder in barrel.
6.1gn, Carbine 1491fps, EM 1241fps. Best carbine 10 shot group. 1.1" @ 50 (very consistent, does this every time I check).
6.3gn, Carbine (no data) EM 1244fps.
6.5gn, Carbine 1523fps, EM 1281fps.
6.6gn, Carbine 1534fps, EM 1274fps.

Xtreme 147 RN plated, Win small primer
4.5gn Carbine 1152fps, EM 962fps
4.6gn Carbine 1167fps, EM 965fps
4.7gn Carbine 1189fps, EM 979fps
4.8gn Carbine 1198fps, EM990fps
4.9gn Carbine 1229fps, EM 1009fps

The 115gn Power Pistol 6.1gn is my goto load for the carbine. Very consistent 10 shot groups @ 50 yards, every time I have checked it. Holds 2.2" groups @ 100 yards. Good groups out to 200 yards, can hit 8" steel every time, but significant spin drift. The best group with AA#7 was also about the same velocity of the best Power Pistol load. Probably not a coincidence.
 
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