In light of the recent FL shooting

Dave951

Dave951

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I've been looking at this for some time and the MSM truly and completely ignores the glaring common thread in all these, drugs. And I don't mean the illegal kind, but the ones prescribed by a shrink or doctor. The class that seems to be really bad are the SSRI, Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. Look at the potential for psychotic results, yeah it's a fraction of a percent, but then take that fraction of a percent of all the people on this stuff and the number of potential psychos is really scary. Couple that with contamination of the food supply with drugs and hormones and additives with unknown long term effects and it's getting worse by leaps and bounds. To that devil's brew I'll add poor parenting and all the other things folks like to point to and it's no wonder we have this stuff happening. Back when I was in school, kids had rifles and shotguns in the car or truck and were headed out to the woods hunting after school. Nobody shot up the school. We had the occasional bully, but that guy usually got dealt with by the little guy who knew how to box.

So upshot- eat as healthy as you can, stay as far away from big pharma as you can and when somebody starts throwing around stats to support gun control, remember that it really isn't about the guns, it's about control. Who has it, who wants it, and for what purpose.
 
Last night on the ham radio, one of the locals who is a nurse raised this concern too. I think that there is certainly more than a coincidence and that it really warrants investigation, however that doesn't fit the narrative and it doesn't bode well for the pocket books of big pharma. If it were to get linked to a drug I could see the manufacturers getting sued out of business, or worse.
 
Last night I heard that almost 70% are on some type of drug or opioid for psychiatric, depression or other emotional issues.

This is really bad.
 
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Bailey Boat said:
Was the FL shooter on any of these devil drugs?? OR...... Are we just looking for another excuse other than bad behavior??
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One of the more recent articles I read (without going back to find a link) said the shooter and his brother were diagnosed with ADHD and OCD, for which they were medicated (no specifics).

@Dave951 : SSRIs are approved by the FDA to treat OCD
 
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Bailey Boat said:
Was the FL shooter on any of these devil drugs?? OR...... Are we just looking for another excuse other than bad behavior??
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I've heard he was diagnosed with depression. He was receiving mental health help and had quit going in the last year. And had lost both parents, his mom as recently as Nov. A friends parents had let him stay with them. I usually don't feel too bad for these kids. And I'm not excusing what he did. But it does look like the world just caved in on this guy. Sucks that he refused the help he was getting. That's usually a really bad sign.
 
Geezer said:
Looks like he was well known in the community.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...fbi-cops-school-but-warning-signs-missed.html
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Wow, I know we don't like the direction these ideas sometimes go. But this kid is the poster child for a mental health issue slipping between the cracks.

Apparently he lived with dad and adoptive step mom.
Dad dies.
Adopted mom apparently can't control either of the boys. And without all the internet BS, that is an incredibly difficult position to be in after the biological parent has passed. Kids, especially kids having problems, have a hard time dealign with a non biological parent as an authority figure. And without dad around to prop up her authority it sounds like it got really bad.
Depending on the school for behavioral issues, well some are just breeding grounds for worse behavior.
Involved with mental health enough to get medicated but apparently not enough to help the behavior. Behavior is not really an issue that drugs solve. Drugs can be useful in some cases, but usually behavior modification is the most useful avenue. And a struggling parent is the least likely person to be able to pull that off.
As much as he probably didn't respect his step mom as his mother, then she passes. You take out your anger on those closest to you, but that does not mean they don't mean something to you.

I've worked with kids that could have headed in this direction. So I've got a bit of a soft spot because I know some of them can be turned around and become successful. But it takes a lot of work. And I just can't wrap my head around why this kid didn't get more intensive help. Some of it is cost prohibitive. But FL has one of the premier wilderness programs in the country and they offer financial aid for low income families. It's like the mental health agency didn't take them seriously, or does not really know what kind of help is available.
 
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I work daily with 20 to 30 year olds as helpers in the Dental profession. Most of these young adults are a product of having been "medicated" since they were 6 year olds. I read in a previous post that the % was 70. I must be unlucky because most all of mine seem lost. Truly the best word I can think of..just lost. Lost to Dr and Pharma for the all mighty dollar.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
I work daily with 20 to 30 year olds as helpers in the Dental profession. Most of these young adults are a product of having been "medicated" since they were 6 year olds. I read in a previous post that the % was 70. I must be unlucky because most all of mine seem lost. Truly the best word I can think of..just lost. Lost to Dr and Pharma for the all mighty dollar.
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My kids are not medicated because I worked in the field. I told my wife I would move heaven and earth to fight the school if they ever suggested meds. And I was almost convinced it was getting ready to come to that a few times. I was strict with my kids in ways the make most parents today cringe. But I've seen the consequences of not being strict, and they are just too high. My kids will not suffer as adults because I was too timid to be a parent. Although they did suffer a bit because of my work as a counselor. lol

And I do have one that is incredibly bright and bored to death in school. But she is well enough behaved to not draw negative attention in class. She both knows better because of us, and it's just not in her nature. My kids have a hard time even dealing with their own peers a lot of times. And it makes me wonder if the meds has something to do with that. Well, parenting has something to do with it too. Disrespectful kids being stupid just drive them up the wall. I guess I raised a couple of old ladies.
 
chiefjason said:
Wow, I know we don't like the direction these ideas sometimes go. But this kid is the poster child for a mental health issue slipping between the cracks.

Apparently he lived with dad and adoptive step mom.
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From a Washington Post article:
Cruz was adopted at age 2 along with his 2-month-old brother, Zachary, by Lynda and Roger Cruz, friends and relatives said. Relatives said Nikolas and Zachary shared a biological mother but have different fathers.
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chiefjason said:
I guess I raised a couple of old ladies.
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I have to disagree on this point. They may appear to be "old ladies" but I know both of your kids and they are well behaved young ladies that are a pleasure to be around. And that's coming from someone that isn't all that keen on kids......
 
chiefjason said:
Where was adoption services? Adopted kids have a laundry list of services available to them and their parents. WTH happened there?
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I think a big part of this puzzle is that both of his adoptive parents were dead. The one died a few months ago. No idea what sort of relationship he had with them.
 
noway2 said:
I think a big part of this puzzle is that both of his adoptive parents were dead. The one died a few months ago. No idea what sort of relationship he had with them.
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It certainly complicates any issues that are already there. But they have had trouble with them for years. That's where the services would have easiest to get.

Unfortunately, once both parents are deceased and he is no longer a minor there is nearly nothing that can legally be done until he actually breaks the law. And then it's too late. Way too late in this case.
 
There is more than meets the eye here. Many, many visits by LE to the home. Why? Kid kicked out of multiple schools. Why? Were any meds prescribed or taken? I don't buy the mommy and daddy are dead so he went psycho story. It's happened to others, this is hardly the first time. Kids at the schools he attended prior to his mom dying said he was dangerous. What did the kids say at the other schools where he was expelled?

I've worked with kids in sports and Boy Scouts and here's a news flash for the uninformed, some kids, even at an early age, are evil. While background can play a role, there are those who are just plain evil. That type is pretty rare and I've only seen two. Now let's couple a dose of Ritalyn, Prozac or some SSRI and you have the shake and bake recipie for something really bad.

Don't get me wrong here. Some drugs do have a beneficial effect and have a place but far too often a kid is medicated because a parent isn't willing to do their job or if they are, society has gotten far too soft to allow them to keep the little miscreant in line. We now have an epidemic of opioid abuse. Why?
 
Dave951 said:
I've been looking at this for some time and the MSM truly and completely ignores the glaring common thread in all these, drugs. And I don't mean the illegal kind, but the ones prescribed by a shrink or doctor. The class that seems to be really bad are the SSRI, Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. Look at the potential for psychotic results, yeah it's a fraction of a percent, but then take that fraction of a percent of all the people on this stuff and the number of potential psychos is really scary.
Click to expand...
Yep, the media and the politicians won't talk about the elephant in the room - psychoactive meds. All this MSM talk of the big bad "gun lobby" is a joke when you compare the tiny NRA to the orders of magnitude larger pharmaceutical lobby.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_lobby

The largest pharmaceutical companies and their two trade groups, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) and Biotechnology Innovation Organization, lobbied on at least 1,600 pieces of legislation between 1998 and 2004. According to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, pharmaceutical companies spent $900 million on lobbying between 1998 and 2005, more than any other industry. During the same period, they donated $89.9 million to federal candidates and political parties, giving approximately three times as much to Republicans as to Democrats. According to the Center for Public Integrity, from January 2005 through June 2006 alone, the pharmaceutical industry spent approximately $182 million on Federal lobbying. The industry has 1,274 registered lobbyists in Washington D.C.
 
Lots of times these kids have no positive adult figures around, and maybe they get involved in sports, where they finally find one. A coach that offers discipline and praise, and the kid sees that he's not the only one getting his ass chewed, but it's everyone else too. Sports can be a real eye opener. The kid sees that he's not being singled out as many of them want to think (poor me), and also sees that his actions alone are in direct correlation to advancement or failure.

When I ran the dive shop in the Keys I'd need help in the summer when we got real busy. Especially during lobster season. I always went to the coach of the local HS football team and asked him who ya got?
I never got a bad kid. Always showed up on time, polite with customers, respectful of authority. Sometimes they might need help with the math part of it or some other detail. I can teach that, but the character and integrity gained from participating in a team environment with peers can only come from being on a team with peers.

Now they want to take this away. Football bad. Coaches cannot be alone with students. Participation trophy's regardless of merit.

I get parents that want my help because their kid shows an interest in firearms. Several reasons. I'm into it, I'm all about safety, I have my own range away from the world.
But just as much, I'm not the parent. These folks understand that their kids won't buck and bitch with someone like me as they would with them.

They don't need the drugs. Get your kid involved in some kind of extra-curricular activity...away from the family.. that they show interest in. Sports, cheer-leading, band, ROTC, cooking class, whatever...and demand they commit. Disregard the irrational snowflake arguments that are bound to surface.
Team, success, failure, adapt, overcome. It's a miracle for positive development and can turn even the most troubled kid around. I've seen it. It works.

And I'll give 'em a job at the dive shop, which might be the coolest summer job ever. :cool:
 
spsmith713 said:
More than 42k people killed by opioids in 2016:

https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/index.html

33K gun deaths which includes 21K suicides:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm
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I've seen some of the gun violence stats and when you break them down, they just don't support the grabbers conclusions. Often included in the "gun violence" figures are suicides, accidents, legit self defense shootings. Take out those and the whole category falls flat. Couple that with if you take out all the killings of any type committed with handguns leaving only those with rifles (all types, murder, suicide, etc) and handguns comprise a vast amount of the deaths from firearms (again, for any reason, murder, suicide, self def, etc).

Far more people are being killed by opioids and illegal drugs. But hey, illegal drugs are already illegal. Can we make them "more" illegal?

Kinda circuitous way to arrive at another point, as a society, we've seriously gone astray from the society that envisioned and founded our nation.
 
Friday said:
Lots of times these kids have no positive adult figures around, and maybe they get involved in sports, where they finally find one. A coach that offers discipline and praise, and the kid sees that he's not the only one getting his ass chewed, but it's everyone else too. Sports can be a real eye opener. The kid sees that he's not being singled out as many of them want to think (poor me), and also sees that his actions alone are in direct correlation to advancement or failure.

When I ran the dive shop in the Keys I'd need help in the summer when we got real busy. Especially during lobster season. I always went to the coach of the local HS football team and asked him who ya got?
I never got a bad kid. Always showed up on time, polite with customers, respectful of authority. Sometimes they might need help with the math part of it or some other detail. I can teach that, but the character and integrity gained from participating in a team environment with peers can only come from being on a team with peers.

Now they want to take this away. Football bad. Coaches cannot be alone with students. Participation trophy's regardless of merit.

I get parents that want my help because their kid shows an interest in firearms. Several reasons. I'm into it, I'm all about safety, I have my own range away from the world.
But just as much, I'm not the parent. These folks understand that their kids won't buck and bitch with someone like me as they would with them.

They don't need the drugs. Get your kid involved in some kind of extra-curricular activity...away from the family.. that they show interest in. Sports, cheer-leading, band, ROTC, cooking class, whatever...and demand they commit. Disregard the irrational snowflake arguments that are bound to surface.
Team, success, failure, adapt, overcome. It's a miracle for positive development and can turn even the most troubled kid around. I've seen it. It works.

And I'll give 'em a job at the dive shop, which might be the coolest summer job ever. :cool:
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Well stated Friday, a proactive solution rather than the normal finger pointing and play of statistics. Today I see few chances for a kid like the Florida shooter to become grounded in a world that thinks government is the answer....certainly more killings to come.
 
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New story reports the younger brother was removed from the home and will be evaluated,
hope he turns out to be OK.
 
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