Is shooting a perishable skill?

Millie

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I'm being told that a 20 year special forces person has no need to train once he/she is out of the service. Is this true? (This is a guy on a dating site who hit me up today.)

I guess if you don't carry a gun, or don't like to shoot, or don't shoot....you have no need to "train"? But it's sounding like he thinks his skills are just going to stay like they were, so he has no need to shoot every now and then.

** And before we get all nuts like on another of my training threads, let's just keep to the actual topic and not go astray. You military guys/girls, tell me what your experience is in all this. You can answer "for a friend" if you want to.

So: Perishable skill, or once you got the skill you keep it, and have no need to train?
*EDIT:
Thanks to all you military people for past and present service. Forgot to add that before!
 
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Thanks for the response.

I think the guy got a tad defensive when I asked if he shoots regularly. (I invited him to the range, as I do a lot of guys.)
He gave me a whole thing about his service training, and asked if I understand how highly trained he is.....which of course I do not, never having been in the military, and I said so!

Asked all sorts of questions about my training and how long I've had my permit, and how many "clips" I carry....and do I know he can keep my 1911 from shooting?
Wow, I hit a nerve, clearly.
 
absolutely a perishable skill. its a 'meta skill' and anything as such is perishable without continued training as opposed to say, walking, or balancing. Anyone who says otherwise, especially 'special forces' (most likely poser/stolen valor type of comment) has either no clue or is trying to sound cool. There is a biological basis for this. In line with this biological rationale, militaries, special operations in particular, dont spend hundreds of millions of dollars even during peace time to maintain a 'non-perishable' skill. he sounds like a turd.


lets just make a dating site for you "tacticalMingle dot com". any web developers on here?
 
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probably "perishable" in some sense, but there are also some folks that seem to be naturally adept.

There are some people that are good shots no matter what weapon you put in their hands and these folks will always have "inherent" abilities. Will they be even better when they train sure, but the won't revert to suck even if they don't shoot for 5 years.

without practice you will probably revert closer to your baseline, which will be different for everyone.
 
probably "perishable" in some sense, but there are also some folks that seem to be naturally adept.

There are some people that are good shots no matter what weapon you put in their hands and these folks will always have "inherent" abilities. Will they be even better when they train sure, but the won't revert to suck even if they don't shoot for 5 years.

without practice you will probably revert closer to your baseline, which will be different for everyone.

I am not one of those people. I am naturally inept. I shoot all the time but my targets verify my assessment.
 
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As I have found out, you do not rise to the occasion you fall to your strongest skilled abilities. Same is true with no practice. I am not as good as I once was, but my foundation is still stronger then most developed shooters. I would say I am at 50% pack now, when I was 80% at my best.
 
I shoot a better match if I practice the week before. My score suffers incrementally if I don’t.
 
sounds like a d-bag trying to steal some valor
they say you never forget how to ride a bike... but get back on one for the first time in 20 years and see how wobbly you are or if you can still pop up and ride backwards, standing on the cross beam, etc like kids sometimes do.
I think it took me a good 10 minutes before i felt comfortable again. I don't want to spend 10 minutes in a gunfight to feel like i might have a chance of winning it.
 
Thanks for the response.

I think the guy got a tad defensive when I asked if he shoots regularly. (I invited him to the range, as I do a lot of guys.)
He gave me a whole thing about his service training, and asked if I understand how highly trained he is.....which of course I do not, never having been in the military, and I said so!

Asked all sorts of questions about my training and how long I've had my permit, and how many "clips" I carry....and do I know he can keep my 1911 from shooting?
Wow, I hit a nerve, clearly.

You may be dealing with a bullsh*t artist.
 
Won't be the first, and probably not the last, either. LOL.
Even if he is what he says he is, it sounds like he doesn’t share your enthusiasm for range time, so I’d kick him to the curb.

*Next?*
 
Even if he is what he says he is, it sounds like he doesn’t share your enthusiasm for range time, so I’d kick him to the curb.

*Next?*
Yeah, he wasn't even tempted by my offer of a range day with not one, but two 1911s....What the heck kinda guy is this?!?! He obviously has no taste!
 
...

without practice you will probably revert closer to your baseline, which will be different for everyone.

This is basically the definition of a perishable skill.

the neuroscience for this is well understood.
https://pcl.sitehost.iu.edu/rgoldsto/courses/cogscilearning/willinghamskilllearning.pdf

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0959438895800255

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1385/MN:32:3:205

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959438802003070

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959438811001218

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2000-07520-001

[URL]https://lirias.kuleuven.be/1686729?limo=0
[/URL]

There’s terabytes of literature on research underlying mechanisms of skill development. At this point, the fundamentals are taught in middle and high school level coursework. “Cells that wire together fire together”, plasticity, neuromuscular signaling pathways with CNs, etc etc.
 
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There are some people that are good shots no matter what weapon you put in their hands and these folks will always have "inherent" abilities.
I've seen a few of these "natural shooters," and wish I was one.....(sigh)
 
Maybe mildly applicable...There was a famous pianist who once said if he missed rehearsal one day, he noticed. If he missed two days his wife noticed, and if he missed three days his audience noticed.
 
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If it isn't perishable, why does the military drill and practice so much? Why not just teach them at the beginning?
Seems odd for ex-mil to say practice isn't necessary. I am not and never was in, but I'd be curious whether a vet thinks another vet would really think that way.
 
If it isn't perishable, why does the military drill and practice so much? Why not just teach them at the beginning?
Seems odd for ex-mil to say practice isn't necessary. I am not and never was in, but I'd be curious whether a vet thinks another vet would really think that way.
Me too....I'm sure I'll find out eventually.
Edit: and he called it "rehearsal"....very weird.
 
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Yeah, he wasn't even tempted by my offer of a range day with not one, but two 1911s....What the heck kinda guy is this?!?! He obviously has no taste!

maybe he’s just not a shallow guy. Like me. I’m not impressed by the large silicon breasted, makeup caked, blond Barbie doll 1911s. Their sex appeal is lazy and cheap. At beauty pageants, the 1911 answers with “I want world peace”. The product of a marketing driven world covered in advertisements of what we should but never will look like...

NO! NOOO! Maybe like me, he sees the true inner beauty. Perhaps, in that regard, you could have successfully wooed him instead with the invitation of a ménage à trois involving two Glocks.

fat and ugly yes. Sure, glock trades the hour glass figure for a sack of potato build, but it has soul. It listens when I talk and isn’t always trying to be the center of attention. It puts its suppressor on and whispers sweet little nothings down range with me...

maybe THATs the kinda guy he is Millie, geez.
 
I can answer in a couple different ways. Hell yes, it's a perishable skill. It takes you a hot minute to blow the dust off the neurons If you have not done it in a while. Also in a medical capacity, if you don't practice the skills, after a while not only can you not do the skills, but new and better skills come along that you will never hear of or may not hear of.

As for "rehearsal", when we trained for specific operations that's what we would call it.
 
fat and ugly yes. Sure, glock trades the hour glass figure for a sack of potato build, but it has soul. It listens when I talk and isn’t always trying to be the center of attention. It puts its suppressor on and whispers sweet little nothings down range with me...
Yeah, you need help, dude! LOL.
I love my Glock, but not as much as my other guns....
 
It is, but there are degrees of what is “lost” will vary.

If you got to be pretty competent with draw-shoot-move, etc. Then stepped away for 20 years and grabbed a gun, I’d expect you to be MUCH closer to your previous performance than something like cycling or typing.

Maybe typing is a better example. If you were a 100 wpm typist 20 years ago, and hadn’t seen a keyboard since, I’ll bet you could type 50 wpm today, without looking at the keys.

Typing would be more like shooting, in that it doesn’t involve conditioned muscle or cardio (like cycling).


I haven’t crocheted AT ALL in 40 years. I’ll bet I could make you a scarf today.


I’ve gone shooting with a former state trooper (who was also into shooting for sport). He hadn’t fired a shot in 15 years when I went out with him. His speed and accuracy shocked me. I was all set to “show up the old man”. That was not happening for me on that day.


As much as some people would not want to believe it.... I do think you could take 20-40 years off from going to the range and handle a gun just fine.

you would be safe maybe even still pretty good. But as you say, proficiency decreases, even if still retained at a higher level than after initial learning period.

This gets into what is meant by meta skill. Shooting is an extremely complex biological orchestra involving nearly every motor skill—sensori, perceptual, Visuo, gross, fine etc. some of these are more “plastic” than others and all have different degeneration rates.

so many involved sub skills can survive a very long time others short. The average will be higher than initial but lower than peak repetition. I think “diminish” would be better term than “perish” as that’s where most folks seem to think complete obliteration of skill
 
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He was just looking for a date for Friday night. Talking a big game. ;)
He better be able to shoot, and he better have tattoos, then. Take that any way you want to! LOL.
 
40 for practice, 40 for score. All in one day in Basic Training. I never touched a rifle again during my years of service.

Got to shoot a pistol once, a few years later.
Wow!
But I guess you're making up for all that no-shooting stuff now, right?
 
i also think we are talking about a few different things here.

the person with naturally good hand eye coordination and fine motor control will probably still shoot the center out of it if they focus and are not under pressure

that doesn’t mean they will shoot that well under stress when you seem to be operating primarily with coarse motor control

training will probably raise your baseline for the second scenario but pure talent will make the shooter in the first scenario turn little holes into big ones year after year with no training
 
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