Is there a new dishwasher currently manufactured that will....

Water spraying on dishes isn't going to get them clean, man!!

Get a scrubby and hand wash those things!

It's relaxing, and it's good for muscle aches in the hands from taking guns apart, and gets the dishes real clean!

You then put them in a dish drainer, and they dry pretty fast if you rinse them in really hot water!
 
Millie said:
Water spraying on dishes isn't going to get them clean, man!!

Get a scrubby and hand wash those things!

It's relaxing, and it's good for muscle aches in the hands from taking guns apart, and gets the dishes real clean!

You then put them in a dish drainer, and they dry pretty fast if you rinse them in really hot water!
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That’s pretty much what we do now.

I just need a real dishwasher so I can clean my Glocks.
 
We have had 3 in 15 years. There are just 2 of us and we use a lot of paper plates. RS is complaining now about dishes not being dry.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
We have had 3 in 15 years. There are just 2 of us and we use a lot of paper plates. RS is complaining now about dishes not being dry.
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We have our malevolent overlords to thank.

For that, and for new gas can spouts.
 
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My 18 y/o Whirlpool finally gave up (on Thanksgiving day, of course). I have been shopping and saving since.

Looks like I will need to save another month.
 
Miss Lily said:
My 18 y/o Whirlpool finally gave up (on Thanksgiving day, of course). I have been shopping and saving since.

Looks like I will need to save another month.
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I’m trying to talk the missus into that Kitchenaid.
She keeps saying, “NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS??!!”
 
Ours was so bad that we started doing dishes by hand. If you washed the dishes and didn't take them out almost immediately they would grow mold.
 
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bigfelipe said:
Ummm... Don't you have kids and a wife..?
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Having kids requires WAY more fast food than you could tolerate. No dishes required.
They ain’t nearly as interested in what we can fix for them.
 
I'm trying to remember but my buddy worked for Bosch that made several other name brands (Kenmore and others) at the New Bern plant. From what I can remember the engineer I met on a tour said candidly to steer clear of the "energy efficient" models as they rely on hot water to heat the dishes hot enough to dry off. I can somewhat attest to this as we got a high end energy efficient Bosch "test" unit and it only dries if you "crack" the door to let the vapor escape. It cleans well but we have to prop the door open just slightly to get the excess vapor to escape while the dishes are hot. For what we paid I'm ok with it but for the retail price I would be livid.
 
tod0987 said:
I'm trying to remember but my buddy worked for Bosch that made several other name brands (Kenmore and others) at the New Bern plant. From what I can remember the engineer I met on a tour said candidly to steer clear of the "energy efficient" models as they rely on hot water to heat the dishes hot enough to dry off. I can somewhat attest to this as we got a high end energy efficient Bosch "test" unit and it only dries if you "crack" the door to let the vapor escape. It cleans well but we have to prop the door open just slightly to get the excess vapor to escape while the dishes are hot. For what we paid I'm ok with it but for the retail price I would be livid.
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Bosch makes Thermador, Gaggenau, Bosch, historical Kenmore, and a few others not sold in the USA
 
Nobody needs a dishwasher except a restaurant. Nobody needs a garbage disposal for that matter. By the time you rinse the dishes you could have washed them. A dishwasher of 10 years ago was expensive to run.

1. Rinse dishes before putting them in washer. Wasted water, sewer charge, hot water energy.
2. Dishwasher uses hot water. Then super heats water. Runs pump. ENERGY.
3. Dry cycle. ENERGY.

I washed by hand with ownership of a dishwasher for years. We are back to using it again since the daughter, husband, and grand baby moved in a month ago. I don’t need it. I can wash and hand towel dry twice a day in the time I rinse, load, and unload a washer. By the way there is no reason for $25,000 in cabinets either when a pantry can be made for a couple grand. We are spoiled as heck in this country. I have cabinets 8 feet up that are useless unless you are an NBA center. It’s furniture to impress.
 
BlackGun said:
Nobody needs a dishwasher except a restaurant. Nobody needs a garbage disposal for that matter. By the time you rinse the dishes you could have washed them. A dishwasher of 10 years ago was expensive to run.

1. Rinse dishes before putting them in washer. Wasted water, sewer charge, hot water energy.
2. Dishwasher uses hot water. Then super heats water. Runs pump. ENERGY.
3. Dry cycle. ENERGY.

I washed by hand with ownership of a dishwasher for years. We are back to using it again since the daughter, husband, and grand baby moved in a month ago. I don’t need it. I can wash and hand towel dry twice a day in the time I rinse, load, and unload a washer. By the way there is no reason for $25,000 in cabinets either when a pantry can be made for a couple grand. We are spoiled as heck in this country. I have cabinets 8 feet up that are useless unless you are an NBA center. It’s furniture to impress.
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All due respect and this is said as light-hearted ribbing...who pooped in your oatmeal? :)
 
fieldgrade said:
wash the dishes, AND DRY THE DISHES?

When we built our house last year we accepted the builder's choice of dishwasher because we figured most new ones are fairly useless anyway, and we didn’t really have time to fully research dishwashers.

This one leaks after 18 months so I am going to yank it out.
The last three "builder grade" dishwashers I have experience with in the past ten years at our house, a rental, and one I installed for my MIL all did three things very poorly.

-Didn’t clean very well
-Didn’t dry the contents of the washer at all because apparently the government assigned the same task force to ruin dishwashers as they did to ruin nozzles for gas cans
-Didn’t fully drain so if you didn’t use it for a few weeks it would start to stink due to water standing deep in the bowels of the beast, or something.

I’d be happiest if I can buy it at Lowes or Home Depot, and if it’s GE that’s just a bonus because GE is more predictable in their delivery times if I have to order.

Discuss.
And thanks in advance.
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Bought a new GE at home depot with top silver ware rack so total of 3 racks. Washes and drys well. All that is programmable/selectable. Cant recommend GE tough cuz our last one lasted about 2 years. Bought a 5 years warranty this time. They all suck, are unreliable and mostly made in China (GE/Haier claims their appliances are made in Louisville, KY) so you pays your money and takes your chances. GE microwaves suck so bad, an extra years warranty is half the price of a new one.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
Bought a new GE at home depot with top silver ware rack so total of 3 racks. Washes and drys well. All that is programmable/selectable. Cant recommend GE tough cuz our last one lasted about 2 years. Bought a 5 years warranty this time. They all suck, are unreliable and mostly made in China (GE/Haier claims their appliances are made in Louisville, KY) so you pays your money and takes your chances. GE microwaves suck so bad, an extra years warranty is half the price of a new one.
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Not made in KY, built in KY. Global parts sources...code for 99% Chinese parts.
GE countertop microwaves are so bad that appliance dealers scrap them for credit when they die during the warranty period.

For what it's worth, GE isn't the worst thing out there. We sell a ton of GE to Builders and the dead/return rate is less than 2%.
 
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fieldgrade said:
Having kids requires WAY more fast food than you could tolerate. No dishes required.
They ain’t nearly as interested in what we can fix for them.
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A brilliant way to get her to OK the $800 Bosch!

Folks, this man is a professional convincer.

EDIT: OOPS! Wrong quote !

I’m trying to talk the missus into that Kitchenaid.
She keeps saying, “NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS??!!”

I am not a professional convincer, btw.


Carry on.
 
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A better idea is to plan a huge dinner party. It's going to be her problem to cook and do dishes with no dishwasher.
 
BlackGun said:
Nobody needs a dishwasher except a restaurant. Nobody needs a garbage disposal for that matter. By the time you rinse the dishes you could have washed them. A dishwasher of 10 years ago was expensive to run.

1. Rinse dishes before putting them in washer. Wasted water, sewer charge, hot water energy.
2. Dishwasher uses hot water. Then super heats water. Runs pump. ENERGY.
3. Dry cycle. ENERGY.

I washed by hand with ownership of a dishwasher for years. We are back to using it again since the daughter, husband, and grand baby moved in a month ago. I don’t need it. I can wash and hand towel dry twice a day in the time I rinse, load, and unload a washer. By the way there is no reason for $25,000 in cabinets either when a pantry can be made for a couple grand. We are spoiled as heck in this country. I have cabinets 8 feet up that are useless unless you are an NBA center. It’s furniture to impress.
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This has been the practice at our new house these past 18 months, and at the rental house for the 18 months we were in it prior to that waiting on our house to be built.

So now the plot thickens. Went to Lowes and Home Depot and found the specific Bosch 500 series and Kitchenaid 404 model that I was eyeballing. The Bosch unit’s stainless steel front is a decidedly different color, sorta pewter look, than the others and won’t look right next to the current fridge, and the handle to the Kitchenaid won’t go with anything. ruby red inserts on the end of the handle and the handle itself is jeweled or something like off a custom 34 Ford. Weird.

This is the current beast, and fridge next to it. Guess I got lucky when I bought the fridge before we even moved into the house because it matches the DW by just dumb luck as well as it needs to, as well as the range not in the pic.

36B7CAD9-20B2-4A29-969C-39E19B025509.jpeg

Here’ is the Kitchenaid with the red inserts in the ends of the handle, and then the Kitchenaid and Bosch side by side. That particular Bosch has a different handle than the model I want, but you can see the difference in the color of the SS. I suspect I am going to figure out how to repair the current leak in the existing dishwasher and just live with it. I suspect it’s a problem with the supply line connection, and I can hopefully remedy that.

C344FD58-F4D0-4834-9038-81909632498B.jpeg
ECCB8CC5-9062-42B9-A59C-8F28A39C52FA.jpeg
 
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fieldgrade said:
This has been the practice at our new house these past 18 months, and at the rental house for the 18 months we were in it prior to that waiting on our house to be built.

So now the plot thickens. Went to Lowes and Home Depot and found the specific Bosch 500 series and Kitchenaid 404 model that I was eyeballing. The Bosch unit’s stainless steel front is a decidedly different color, sorta pewter look, than the others and won’t look right next to the current fridge, and the handle to the Kitchenaid won’t go with anything. ruby red inserts on the end of the handle and the handle itself is jeweled or something like off a custom 34 Ford. Weird.

This is the current beast, and fridge next to it. Guess I got lucky when I bought the fridge before we even moved into the house because it matches the DW by just dumb luck as well as it needs to, as well as the range not in the pic.

View attachment 209839

Here’ is the Kitchenaid with the red inserts in the ends of the handle, and then the Kitchenaid and Bosch side by side. That particular Bosch has a different handle than the model I want, but you can see the difference in the color of the SS. I suspect I am going to figure out how to repair the current leak in the existing dishwasher and just live with it. I suspect it’s a problem with the supply line connection, and I can hopefully remedy that.

View attachment 209846
View attachment 209850
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I doubt the leak is a major repair. Matching shades of stainless is tough. You have to get the light perfect on a picture when you take it to a store. Even then it’s tough.

Dishwashers are a problem to troubleshoot. Being recessed into a cabinet doesn’t allow you to run it and test without it in the middle of the kitchen which means you need to still be able to drain and fill the appliance.
 
BlackGun said:
I doubt the leak is a major repair. Matching shades of stainless is tough. You have to get the light perfect on a picture when you take it to a store. Even then it’s tough.

Dishwashers are a problem to troubleshoot. Being recessed into a cabinet doesn’t allow you to run it and test without it in the middle of the kitchen which means you need to still be able to drain and fill the appliance.
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I think the problem boils down to the rigid pex or plastic supply line from under the sink terminates with the female hose fitting at 45 degrees when it needs to be 90 degrees, so I have to twist it by force to connect it. The installers had pipe dope slathered all over it, and I discovered why. They had tightened the female connection so tight it cut the rubber hose washer in half. So I put a new washer in there, connected it, tested it and thought everything was fine. Watched it for a day. Buttoned it all up underneath.

Ran some dishes a few days later, and damn if my wood floors weren’t wet three feet in every direction.
Again.
So I shut off the water under the sink, and decided if I was going to yank this thing out to replace the supply line, I’d get a new DW that we liked better.
 
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Wait, wait, wait...

After all this, you just fixed the one you had & you're gonna keep it?! :rolleyes:

[sigh]

Ok.






What're you gonna spend the $900 on?
 
@fieldgrade
Is that a Frigidaire or a Samsung? Stainless steel tub or plastic?
Is there a water level float in the front left corner on the bottom?
I've seen Samsung leak from the stainless steel tub "welds" /seams.
I've seen Frigidaire leak from the float. I've seen every brand leak from the drain hose from pin size hole.

If the water was leaking from the inlet side/supply side of the valve you're house would be flooded already. A leak like that has constant water pressure and running the dishwasher has no bearing on the leak.
That tells me the leak is either the door seal has crap in it, the tub is leaking, or the drain hose.

edit...came back to add another possibility...Frigidaire has a water tube...plastic...that runs up the back side to feed water to the upper rack and top sprayer. Because the tube is exposed it can get bumped /cracked in shipping. I've seen leaks from there as well.

To help you diagnose the issue I leave you this link. https://www.automaticappliance.com/lookup
Put your model number in there and you'll find parts blow-ups so you can visualize how the machine works.
 
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Millie said:
Water spraying on dishes isn't going to get them clean, man!!

Get a scrubby and hand wash those things!

It's relaxing, and it's good for muscle aches in the hands from taking guns apart, and gets the dishes real clean!

You then put them in a dish drainer, and they dry pretty fast if you rinse them in really hot water!
Click to expand...

My wife has always said that dishwasher are useless.
 
Timfoilhat said:
@fieldgrade
Is that a Frigidaire or a Samsung? Stainless steel tub or plastic?
Is there a water level float in the front left corner on the bottom?
I've seen Samsung leak from the stainless steel tub "welds" /seams.
I've seen Frigidaire leak from the float. I've seen every brand leak from the drain hose from pin size hole.

If the water was leaking from the inlet side/supply side of the valve you're house would be flooded already. A leak like that has constant water pressure and running the dishwasher has no bearing on the leak.
That tells me the leak is either the door seal has crap in it, the tub is leaking, or the drain hose.

edit...came back to add another possibility...Frigidaire has a water tube...plastic...that runs up the back side to feed water to the upper rack and top sprayer. Because the tube is exposed it can get bumped /cracked in shipping. I've seen leaks from there as well.

To help you diagnose the issue I leave you this link. https://www.automaticappliance.com/lookup
Put your model number in there and you'll find parts blow-ups so you can visualize how the machine works.
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Frigidaire, plastic tub.
Edit: and it does have a float level in the left front corner.
more edit: It was just dripping very slowly, even when not running.

It was leaking right at the supply line connection. pic below
I shut it down maybe two weeks ago, and happened to open it up and it’s still wet inside like we just ran it last night. Wife won’t ever use this one again even if it’s a supply line leak so it’s staying shut off till we replace.

Before:

D34FCAFB-9890-463A-9EEC-54C4ECF91B5E_1_201_a.jpeg
 
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So, is Bosch the only one with the pan underneath?

Because if they leak all the ways that have been described...

My wood floors are already messed up but they’ve dried out (twice) and it’s only noticeable if you really look for it,
 
Should you decide to fix that I'd recommend a new water valve, new fitting, and a stainless steel braided line (easy) or copper tube (more complex, need tubing cutter) from source to dishwasher. Plumbing with plastic is nothing but trouble in my experience. It looks to me like the installer cross threaded the fitting, then tried to salvage it with pipe dope.
No promises, but I might be able to get a new inlet valve for you from industry contacts. PM me model and serial if interested.
 
fieldgrade said:
So, is Bosch the only one with the pan underneath?

Because if they leak all the ways that have been described...

My wood floors are already messed up but they’ve dried out (twice) and it’s only noticeable if you really look for it,
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Yep. But the leak you have now would still be dripping on the floor. The pan on the bosch is good for tub leaks.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the medalions on the KA handle come out. There's a T10/T15 (guessing size) torx screw on the side of the handle standoffs holding it on from the look of it.
 
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Also, I'd send that picture to the builder of your home and raise hell. His installer, either the plumber or the appliance company really should be eating that and paying you for the floor damage.
 
Sorry was offline for a while there. KitchenAid does sell the 404 series in a model with a pocket handle kdfm404 is your model number.

They also sell replacement medallions for the towel bar models for ~$14 a pair silver black or red

KitchenAid has 2 stainless options. Models that end with a SS color code are “normal” stainless steel models that end with a PS or Z (older models) are fingerprint resistant or “Printshield” these tend to be a more matte finish to reduce printing.

Frigidaire does the same thing. I think you had references matching with a Frigidaire. The gallery series (FG models) uses a matte fingerprint resistant finish where core Frigidaire (FF models) will typically be untreated.

The Aquastop encompasses the fill line/pump as well and will stop water from entering the device once a leak is detected. The water is drained into the drain pan molded into the base of of the dishwasher. Don’t honestly know how much water it holds or what it’s rare of saving floors actually is. I do know that I haven’t had any clients that have mentioned damage to their floor when using a Bosch with aquastop.

As far as repairing your current unit. I’m no help there. I sell ‘em, don’t fix ‘em. I’m not even mechanically inclined enough to keep a Lee loadmaster running. Had to buy a blue monster from Butter.
 
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Thanks guys. This is all very helpful.
I’m going to digest some of these choices, then sally forth with a decision.
 
Inlet and drain run through this box on side and drain into the pan underneath. To give an idea of how it works.
92023767bb8ea44ef43b2d591b885e0a.jpg
 
I think I’m homed in on Kitcheaid, if for no other reason than the Bosch stainless is so much of a different color that will be sitting right next to the GE fridge, that looks to be much more the color of the Kitchenaid.

That said, I’m seeing this feature in the 604 model Kitchenaid that has my attention
  • Fan-Enabled ProDry™ System combines a heating element and fan for optimal performance
https://www.lowes.com/pl/Kitchenaid...nt=706158916,4246986555,4294796421,4294965636

Poor drying is probably my worst complaint, other than the leak, in my current Frigidaire that’s going to the dump.
 
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That’s a good price on that model as well. Cool thing about that one is spray jets built into the top rack that help clean up there. A lot of other 3rd rack models don’t have more than a tiny spinner jet directed to them.
 
Metalliman27055 said:
That’s a good price on that model as well. Cool thing about that one is spray jets built into the top rack that help clean up there. A lot of other 3rd rack models don’t have more than a tiny spinner jet directed to them.
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The price looks to be set at the Kitchenaid website, then I can pick where I want to buy. Garner Appliance, Lowes, Home Depot...
I’d buy it from one of you guys if it wasn’t for distance.
 
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fieldgrade said:
The price looks to be set at the Kitchenaid website, then I can pick where I want to buy. Garner Appliance, Lowes, Home Depot...
I’d buy it from one of you guys if it wasn’t for distance.
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Always go to the appliance dealers when you can. Support after the sale is on another level from the dealer.
 
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