I've Got Nothing To Hide

JohnnyTyler

JohnnyTyler

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Warning: This is probably going to be long and rambling.



Last night the wife, daughter and I were watching the evening news and an interesting story came up. Seems NC wants to start teaching kids how they should react to a traffic stop and teach it as part of their drivers ed. Doesn't seem like too bad of an idea. But what the news piece was about is there is some debate on which government agency should be tasked with setting the guidelines for the instruction and it seems that NC Highway Patrol will be given the job. Upon hearing this I half jokingly said that a police organization should not be in charge of this to which my wife replied “Why not?”. My response was that they would obviously right the guidelines from their point of view and in their favor. Of course they're going to tell you to comply with all commands and if they ask to look in your vehicle you should just let them. At this point there's still a heavy dose of sarcasm in my voice as I'm halfway making a joke while trying to point out how this could be abused by the police but what came next nearly made my head explode. My wife says “If I'm not doing anything wrong what do I care if they search my car, I've got nothing to hide”. WHAT? Then for the real killer; my daughter says the exact same thing! BOOM! Head explodes. WTF! Apparently I have failed as a father for my daughter to say such a thing. She's 12 so maybe I have time to reverse the socialist indoctrination she's being fed everyday. Well fast forward about an hour of me giving examples and scenarios where such a seemingly innocent statement could go horribly wrong and a long discussion on the 4th amendment I think I finally swayed their opinion. It was a good learning opportunity for my daughter and it reminded me I need to remain vigilant about making sure she is not being blinded by the leftist/socialist beliefs she hears daily in school. The other scary thing is while discussing this with some coworkers today I was shocked to hear how many had the “I have nothing to hide” attitude also. But then again, maybe it's just me.



If you made it this far thanks for listening. Rant off. Gotta run, I hear the helicopters getting closer and the tin foil is getting tight.
 
No, you're exactly right. And excellent job reminding us that teaching our kids how to tie shoes, hit a ball, and shoot a rifle, and how to treat a lady (or opposite sex) aren't the only life lessons. This is a huge one. Individual liberties and personal freedoms should be at the top of the list, also. Thanks for the post.
 
I think the flip side of this is that the cops shouldn't be trying to go on fishing expeditions and asking to allow searches, etc. it should be a case of shit or get off the pot. Once the business is done that prompted any sort of official interaction - that's it - over.

I really wish we could go back to having "police" instead of "law enforcement".
 
noway2 said:
I think the flip side of this is that the cops shouldn't be trying to go on fishing expeditions and asking to allow searches, etc. it should be a case of shit or get off the pot. Once the business is done that prompted any sort of official interaction - that's it - over.

I really wish we could go back to having "police" instead of "law enforcement".
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Got to pimp that war on drugs and keep the prison industrial complex happy.
 
I've been stopped lots of times in my 40 years of driving. Several of them for more than 20 over the limit. Only 1 ticket the entire time and not once have I ever been asked if they could search my vehicle.
 
JohnnyTyler said:
But what the news piece was about is there is some debate on which government agency should be tasked with setting the guidelines for the instruction and it seems that NC Highway Patrol will be given the job.
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There are 2 rules;
Rule #1-Obey all rules.
Rule #2-Do whatever we tell you.
 
Sounds like you need to be doing more "Kid Checks" and include your wife in the session. Since they don't have a BS meter you can check it would be a good idea to pull the dipstick once in a while. Ya'll send your kids to be with the enemy all day, 5 days a week and you get such little time to counteract the BS their fed every day.....
 
SPST said:
I've been stopped lots of times in my 40 years of driving. Several of them for more than 20 over the limit. Only 1 ticket the entire time and not once have I ever been asked if they could search my vehicle.
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Sounds like you need to check your privilege!!!!


/sarcasm off
 
SPST said:
I've been stopped lots of times in my 40 years of driving. Several of them for more than 20 over the limit. Only 1 ticket the entire time and not once have I ever been asked if they could search my vehicle.
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I haven't been stopped very often, and I've never been asked if they could search my vehicle either, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that they should be asking in the first place.
 
i dont have anything to hide - i just dont want to be bothered. am i breaking the law? no? we're done.

and the brainiac that arrested someone for meth that turned out to be donut glaze always comes to mind as well.
 
I have nothing to hide, but I still put my mail in a sealed envelope.

Just saying ....
 
My CHP instructor, during the part of the course related to laws and procedures, told about an episode he had. As he explained it, he was stopped, disclosed he was carrying and presented his DL & CHP. The LEO asked to see the firearm and he refused saying something like, "You have no right to see it and I have no obligation to do more than disclose I am carrying and present my DL and CHP."
 
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As far as the HP writing up the lesson plan I would loosen my chin strap a bit. No matter who writes it up it will have to pass muster through the gauntlet of defense and ACLU lawyers before it is approved and will be the definitive guide on what you can and can not do.
 
There are some jerks among the law enforcement community, but most of them are decent, well meaning individuals doing a job for which they are way under-compensated. I have a great deal of respect for most of those who put their lives on the line daily, protecting a largely ungrateful society. I have had maybe two dozen negative interactions with police officers over the years and, in all but one of them, I was in the wrong. In all but one of them, the police officer was polite and professional. In that one instance, I did nothing wrong, and the cop was a serious jerk. I reported his conduct to his superiors, and moved on.

I absolutely support defending our constitutional rights. They are sacred. The place to defend those rights though, is in court; and that is what I try to teach my children. You fight the police in the courts, not on the side of the road. You are going to lose, and sometimes in a fatal manner, on the side of the road. I would tell my kids that you can decline a voluntary vehicle search. That's fine; but when the cop's request turns into a command, you shut your face and comply. If he's in the wrong, tell it to a judge. I would hate for one of my children to die on the side of the road because they were "in the right." It would be little consolation, as they were lowered into the ground, that they stood up for their rights.
 
We're all sinners, we all have something to hide. We are all imperfect. To deny this is to deny Christ.
If we come under scrutiny of the law, there will always be something that you are guilty of. That is why sacrifices were made under the old law. (Old testament)
Following man's law is similar. There's a always something someone can find you guilty of. So, should we be subjected to the random inspection of someone looking for your error?
 
In further discussions at work today it amazes me the number of people willing to give up their rights just by simply being asked to do so. Funny when I ask these same people if the police show up at their doorstep wanting to come in and take a look around they say that's different. How? As I explained to my daughter last night a right not exercised is a right forfeited, i.e. if you roll over every time someone asks to search your car, house or person eventually they'll stop asking and do it anyway.
 
SPST said:
I've been stopped lots of times in my 40 years of driving. Several of them for more than 20 over the limit. Only 1 ticket the entire time and not once have I ever been asked if they could search my vehicle.
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you must be white!

lol
 
CZfool68 said:
I didn't say I had anything illegal. But maybe I'm just embarassed by my dirty floor mats or smallmouth bass porn collection.
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This is true. But when you say no, they WILL find something to stick on you.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
This is true. But when you say no, they WILL find something to stick on you.
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I'm thinking if asked to randomly search my vehicle I'd do them like I do my kids.

"Why, officer?"

"I'm sorry, explain that to me again?"
 
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Actually...I was taught how to handle a police stop nearly 40 years ago in the drivers ed course I took.

The gist of which was to pull over, roll the window down, and keep both hands on the wheel. Be polite. Beyond that, there was the usual driver's license, registration, insurance credentials.

Any more? You're headed into lawyer territory.

This isn't rocket science.
 
The problem with "why not, I've done nothing wrong" argument is that it's not you that gets to decide what's right and what's wrong anymore. I got into this big time with some family members over the domestic surveillance crap in the name of stopping "terrorism". It's like nobody remembers that we have a Constitution that's supposed to protect us from government gone wild.
 
dmatting said:
You need to have your wife and daughter watch the classic "Don't Talk To The Cops" videos...

Part 1:


Part 2:
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Amen!

These should be required viewing for every American every year. It would do a lot more good than the annual sensitivity, diversity, etc... training that many companies push on their employees annually.
 
I learned that lesson when I was a new driver. Got pulled over and had nothing to hide, but a cop wanted to search the car. I let him and he frikin trashed it like an asshole, was pissed that he didnt find anything and left it a mess. Never again.
 
Sorry but this made me laugh

Daleo8803 said:
Never been asked if they could look through my car but if they did they would be told a flat no. No way in hell are they ever going to search my car without a warranty.
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"Look here Fuzzy! You come back with a 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty and then you can look through the car. Till then buzz off."
 
dmatting said:
You need to have your wife and daughter watch the classic "Don't Talk To The Cops" videos...

Part 1:


Part 2:
Click to expand...


Absolutely watch these videos. If you've seen them before, watch them again!

To OPs original question, if he had a warrant, even the flimsiest of probable cause or articulable suspicion (I love that nebulous term, sort of like trying to grab a fistful of water, but since the Fourth Amendment says probable cause, we'll use that instead.), he wouldn't be standing there, hat in hand, asking for your consent. Ask him if he has a warrant. If he says he doesn't, ask to see his fishing license.

I had a conversation with a colleague shortly after 9/11 when the Patriot Act was being debated. He said he was OK if they listened to every phone call and searched every house in the country, sans warrant. "After all," he said, " if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about."

I then asked him where he lived, and he asked why I wanted to know. I told him, "If the law shows up at my house wanting to search without a warrant, I'm sending them to your house." He just did not understand my objection, even when I pointed out that I cannot waive his rights, only mine.

And to those that would invent PC or fudge a warrant affidavit, if violating the highest law of the land is not a moral barrier, what would possibly dissuade them from planting a little evidence?
 
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