Kieth #5 on a Blackhawk, Kinda.

cold1

cold1

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This project started out as an effort to copy some of Sharps40 work by installing a colt 1860 army grip frame on a blackhawk. So I ordered the parts and as usual, i ordered the wrong back strap. It was an 1860 Navy. When I went back and ordered the right backstrap, I was told it was on backorder. Not wanting to waste a learning experience, I figured what the hell lets try making a bisley backstrap.

The first attempt was to try to modify the Brass navy back strap. I silver brazed on a new lower front lug to the backstrap, milled out the slot, and cut off the upper ears. I quickly discovered that cast brass is very fragile when heated to bending temp. Dont drop hot cast brass. After about the 3rd brake i stopped trying.

Here are a few pics of that attempt.

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After that "learning experience", I moved on to trying it in steel. I found that NC Ordinance (repro grips) has some grip templates that you could print out. I printed out the Colt early Bisley, Colt Bisley, and Ruger Bisley grip shapes to use as templates for the bends.

Not having a steel supplier nearby i had to resort to the big box store rack O steel. I picked up some 3/16 X 1 (5mm X 25mm) hot rolled. I got it home and started heating and bending. I did not want to reduce the with until after the bends since one end would be 1 inch wide (25mm). I have found that for me, i would never be able to get all the bends the way I wanted if the piece isnt full size.

After I got the bends to line up with the template, I milled down the width to close to where it needs to be. Then I needed to mil in the flats on the upper section. I am not showing my milling setups because they are sketchy as Frig.

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Making progress but I ain't happy with it.

I tig welded a piece of 3/8 onto the 3/16 to make the "ears" where the screws go to hold the backstrap to the frame. This of course screwed up the flats that is had previously milled into the 3/16. So i had to add weld to them, which changed the size and squareness of the entire piece. Also, I did not realize that I needed to angle the 3/8 instead of square to the backstrap. So once that screw up was noticed, I had to mill in the face angle. Owning an old combo lathe/mill and only a few endmills and a vice, that was sketchy as hell.

There are only two holes that needed to be drilled and I screwed that up. They did like up with the holes in the frame but they where shifted about .025 to one side. This caused the backstrap to not be centered with the trigger guard. I had to open the holes up with the files. Then I had to open up the counter bores. The back strap is able to be tightened up and it feels solid but I don't want to trust it not to shift.

I am already thinking about how to make the next one. I think the screw holes will be the first thing I do and build back from there.

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Wow! Awesome project. I always wanted to try one this way...from scratch. What a great challenge and effort. Looking forward to seeing it completed
 
Well I have been thinking on this all day. It did not take me too long to decide to scrap the previous piece of steel I had been working on. It just had too many mistakes and I would have been chasing my tail trying to get it square and lined up the way it needed to be.

I spent the rest of the time figuring out the next attempt. I am going a different route this time, I am going to start with two holes and work backwards from there. At least it sounds good in my head

I had a little time this evening so I found a piece of 1/2 inch plate in my scrap pile and I cut out a section about 1 inch by 2 inch. I started getting it squared up. I hope to get it layed out tomorrow and my new endmills come in on wednesday.
 
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Son of a, I am on my 3rd try at this. I have figured out how to put the holes where they need to go and get them drilled correctly. I can do that repeatedly now! That's a plus.

My second try was to take a solid piece of 1/2 x1x2 and mill it to look like the front part of the backstrap that attaches to the frame, then weld on a piece of 3/16x1/2 to make the rest of the backstrap. I got about 75% and thought that there has to be an easier way.

Next try was to take the 3/16 x1 and cut the Center section that is 1/2 wide while the top end 1 wide and 1 long. I then welded on a 3/8 block to make the mounting ears. Well, that one screwed up when I tried to make the bends. The bends near the mounting block just did not look right and there was nothing I could do to fix it.

Well I'm on my 4th try today and we will see how that works out.
 
Having held an EXACT copy of the Keith #5 the first word that comes to mind is "perfect", at least for me. I have in my possession 2 Colt Bisleys. Both are historically significant. One having been in Arizona all it's life until this past September. The other is a Full King Conversion.
My plan is to take the King Conversion, which gives me the Keith barrel band and adjustable sights, and install a front strap from a Colt SAA. When the SAA front strap and the Bisley backstrap are mated the result is the Keith #5. I talked to the man from Louisiana who won the Award of Excellence at the Colt Collectors Association in October who had done the EXACT copy of the Keith #5. He had a notebook file of his work that included many pictures of the Original, with him making measurements and taking close up pictures. He might could be talked into helping me with this. I intend to see. These, when done like the original on Colt frames are almost delicate feeling in the hand. The 2 pin Ruger attempt was close but too big. I admire and envy your skill and determination.
 
I hag started this morning on try number 4 by welding on another block of 3/8 to another strip of 3/16X1 to start on another one. I got it cleaned up and squared. Then I layed out the measurements for the holes. Then it was time to head out hunting a Christmas tree.

While out and about I decided to step back and reexamine what I had been doing. None of the iterations looked as good as the first one when it came to the bends and shape. So I decided to take a look at it again. I didn't like it because I had drilled the holes off by about 0.050. With all the small parts that I had been TIG welding putting the other together, my welding has improved quite a bit. So I filled in the holes and cleaned off the welds from the mating surfaces. I layed out the measurements and refilled the holes. They lined up right this time. Everything was looking better now! I cut the lower piece and welded it on too. Things are looking up! A little file work and it squared up. One last hole needed to be drilled and that went ok.

It certainly ain't perfect or even close. It needs some more minor work and fitting. Once that's done, I will move onto the trigger guard and the work that needs to be done to that.

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Just a teaser photo. I will write up more later.

Im finally making time to write up more on this.

Previously i stated that I would be using the original that I started with. I didnt, this is a new backstrap that I obsessed over. Getting the angles where the upper block attaches to the frame was what was holding me up. I finally got the angles that i wanted but I ended up taking the majority of the mounting blocks width down. That got the proportions off but what the hey, right? I brazed in a block of steel for the trigger return spring legs. It aint pretty but it does work well. I used a 3/32 tig rod for the pin. I chucked it up and used some needle files to make the grooves for the spring legs.

As for the trigger guard, I followed Sharps40 mods and it wasnt too difficult. I even used the bear cat plunger for the cylinder stop. I did deviate a little, I made bushings for the two rear screws nad soldered them in. The shoulders on the bolts were too long and allowed the trigger guard to not tighten up. I also made a spacer (post pics later) for the front screw because the brass up front was too thin to let me countersink the screw.

I picked up a bisley hammer and trigger from brownells. I must say that I am pleasantly surprised at how well the sear and hammer feel. Its not a custom trigger job feel but it is definitely as good as factory new. I had to shorten the trigger to fit inside the trigger guard. I dont know what kind of stainless they use but its harder than woodpecker lips. It dulled the crap out of my file in just a few strokes. I switched to the grinder and got it ground down.

Thats all for now. I will break it down later and get pics of all the internals.
 
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Dayum!!!!! Looks good! I envy you the welding skills! I learned to weld on farm equipment. Gorilla style. 110v stick welder with coat hangers for rods. Lay a bead, grind, lay two more beads on top, grind, lay three beads on top of two.....beat the hell out of the part with a 16 oz carpenters hammer and if the weld don't break, bolt it back on the manure spreader or tractor or whatever and go back to the field.
 
My first attempt at making grips. I had some spalted maple on hand so I started with that. I'm pretty sure that these will not be the permanent grips. I have already made a few mistakes and will probably make a few more before I'm done. This pic is still in the process of roughing them in.
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Here is where I deviated from Sharps40 directions. I did not like how much metal I had left after countersinking the front screw so I soldered in a spacer to give me a little more thickness. One other thing I did was to make bushings for the two screws at the back of the trigger guard, the bushings were 0.050 thick and I put a drop of solder on each one.

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So after a few months and many headscratches I finally was able to get everything done and put together. I finished rust bluing the backstrap yesterday and polished the brass today. It's not perfect by any means and there are several things that can be done better. Some of the oops are the fit between the metal and wood, I made the eschustion too big, and the grip screw does cause a slight bit of interference with the mainspring at full cock.

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I like it! Appears you did all the work in the guard to fit the big wide long bisley trigger too. Having a mill prolly made it a snap to locate and drill the locking bolt plunger hole into the trigger guard....makes me jealous!!!!! Ya got the worlds only scratch made colt keith 5 two tone two piece grip frame on a blackhawk. Thats whats its about....doin it your way with your hands. Very awesome!
 
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I got a chance to test her out today, all I can say is WOW what a difference that grip makes. It handles like a totally different pistol.. I shot a few of the standard loads and a few of my hot loads. The standard loads felt "soft". The hot loads felt comfortable, very little snap, more of a roll in the hand.

My 11yo son even commented on how comfortable it was to shoot compared to another blackhawk.
 
Sharps40 said:
I like it! Appears you did all the work in the guard to fit the big wide long bisley trigger too. Having a mill prolly made it a snap to locate and drill the locking bolt plunger hole into the trigger guard....makes me jealous!!!!! Ya got the worlds only scratch made colt keith 5 two tone two piece grip frame on a blackhawk. Thats whats its about....doin it your way with your hands. Very awesome!
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Ha, is used one of those drill press vices that angle and a "stick" in the drill chuck to get my angles setup. I liked to had drilled it too deep and popped out the trigger guard. Luckily I stopped in time.
 
Yep. Its a hairy spot to drill a hole! Congrats on a good job! If an 11 year old notes a difference it must be significant.
 
cold1 said:
Thank you. If I get down that way, I will be sure to bring it with me. I'm not comparing it to the real Kieth#5 but I hope you like it.
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Outstanding is what it is. We'
re having a mini gathering on the 26th for Millie. Would love for you to come. I am always amazed at the talent on CFF. UDAMAN!!!
 
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