Long Range Rimfire

Good idea @MadMardigan !

I am proficient in the sport of Precision Rimfire, but there is always more to learn.

This thread is not for the TSC Match, but a place to ask Long Range Rimfire questions on Equipment, Ballistics, Strategy, Positions and anything else. It is all relevant to Centerfire shooting. Remember, a 300 yard .22 LR shot is very similar to a 1100 yard .308 shot.

Just to give the guys here an idea, my club Catawba Valley Rifle Pistol Club, has a Tactical Steel Challenge (TSC) match that we have shot for over 7 years.

1. This match has 5 stages, 57, 112, 163, 212 and 295 Yards. You get 10 shots each stage with 12 targets... 6 Singles, 4 Aggressors (Hostage covering 66%+ Aggressor) and 2 Bonus (Smaller Aggressor Targets)
2. This invokes strategy into your overall score as Singles = 1 Point, Aggressor = 2 Points and Bonus = 3 Points. IF you hit a hostage, it is scored -1 Point.
3. This is not a belly match. The positions will incorporate: Rooftop Overwatch, 90 Degree Prone, Sniper Hole, DogHouse, Wailing Wall, Spider Web, Spools, 30 Degree Prone Incline, Offhand and maybe Prone.
4. Since we are a square range, there is no transition from yardage to yardage during a relay... that gives this match more precision focus -- you have to put the bullet where it is needed to go; but you have 10 at the same yardage.

There are tons of PRS Rimfire Matches that are now jumping up everywhere. I shoot PRS and DMM matches and I can tell you that this TSC Match will make you VERY proficient in long range. This match will make you a better shooter and introduce you to competition with folks that are fun and family friendly.

This is a good opportunity for CFF members to come up and at least try. And don't worry about not doing well or doing great, we are competitive but laid back. And our shooters will share tips, tricks and anything you ask them. Our goal is to increase proficiency in shooting rimfire and have fun doing it.

Plus... its just so daggone fun to shoot!
 
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Good idea @MadMardigan !

I am proficient in the sport of Precision Rimfire, but there is always more to learn.

This thread is not for the TSC Match, but a place to ask Long Range Rimfire questions on Equipment, Ballistics, Strategy, Positions and anything else. It is all relevant to Centerfire shooting. Remember, a 300 yard .22 LR shot is very similar to a 1100 yard .308 shot.

Just to give the guys here an idea, my club Catawba Valley Rifle Pistol Club, has a Tactical Steel Challenge (TSC) match that we have shot for over 7 years.

1. This match has 5 stages, 57, 112, 163, 212 and 295 Yards. You get 10 shots each stage with 12 targets... 6 Singles, 4 Aggressors (Hostage covering 66%+ Aggressor) and 2 Bonus (Smaller Aggressor Targets)
2. This invokes strategy into your overall score as Singles = 1 Point, Aggressor = 2 Points and Bonus = 3 Points. IF you hit a hostage, it is scored -1 Point.
3. This is not a belly match. The positions will incorporate: Rooftop Overwatch, 90 Degree Prone, Sniper Hole, DogHouse, Wailing Wall, Spider Web, Spools, 30 Degree Prone Incline, Offhand and maybe Prone.
4. Since we are a square range, there is no transition from yardage to yardage during a relay... that gives this match more precision focus -- you have to put the bullet where it is needed to go; but you have 10 at the same yardage.

There are tons of PRS Rimfire Matches that are now jumping up everywhere. I shoot PRS and DMM matches and I can tell you that this TSC Match will make you VERY proficient in long range. This match will make you a better shooter and introduce you to competition with folks that are fun and family friendly.

This is a good opportunity for CFF members to come up and at least try. And don't worry about not doing well or doing great, we are competitive but laid back. And our shooters will share tips, tricks and anything you ask them. Our goal is to increase proficiency in shooting rimfire and have fun doing it.

Plus... its just so daggone fun to shoot!
We (my boys and i) are in newton and would like to join on on this match. When, and what equipmet, ammo, etc?
 
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Also, @Bunsen has his match close to Mebane that is very similar.. he has some fun stuff going on as well...


If you are talking about the DPRC match, I do not think Tom is involved with it anymore. Jim P is running it.

Paul is also running some up at @Frontline Defense he puts on great 22 long range style match. Just like his regular long range style matches, multiple targets per stage at varying distances using various props to shoot from.
 
If you are talking about the DPRC match, I do not think Tom is involved with it anymore. Jim P is running it.

Paul is also running some up at @Frontline Defense he puts on great 22 long range style match. Just like his regular long range style matches, multiple targets per stage at varying distances using various props to shoot from.

Ah.. good info... I haven't heard from Tom in a while. I wonder if GSK moved him.
 
If you are talking about the DPRC match, I do not think Tom is involved with it anymore. Jim P is running it.

Paul is also running some up at @Frontline Defense he puts on great 22 long range style match. Just like his regular long range style matches, multiple targets per stage at varying distances using various props to shoot from.
Ah.. good info... I haven't heard from Tom in a while. I wonder if GSK moved him.


Shawn is correct that I'm no longer running the PRM matches at DPRC. I needed to completely step away from DPRC after serving as the club President for 16 months.

Thankfully, @JimP42 has stepped in and is now running the matches on the second Sunday of each month. They are now on the new rimfire range and shooting out to 150yds I believe. Multiple divisions and all falling steel targets. It should look something like the videos linked below. The young lady in the videos is still shooting the match AND still beating almost everybody. ;)



 
Following. I have been tossing around trying to do something like this with my cz. This past weekend I was shooting golf balls at 100 yds like it was nothing so I decided to shoot the tees they were sitting on... lol
 
Paul is also running some up at @Frontline Defense he puts on great 22 long range style match. Just like his regular long range style matches, multiple targets per stage at varying distances using various props to shoot from.
This sounds like fun, I got to meet Paul today, I spotted the Frontline Pickup & introduced meself.
 
@VA_GENTLEMAN

Let’s make an all purpose Long Range Rimfire knowledge / rule thread.

Recommended gear, ammo, etc..

A few things I've learned and opinions I've formed over the past 6 or 7 years slinging the little 40gr lead projectiles @1080fps as far as practical*:

  • headwinds and tailwinds will affect your POI at 100yds and greater
  • velocity variances from the ammo is typically your greatest variable affecting POI at extended ranges. (SD's of 30fps or greater fps are common with rimfire ammo.)
    • typically the higher priced ammo (Tenex, Midas Plus, Center-X) will have lower velocity SD's
  • ambient temperature and ammo temperature will effect velocity
  • rimfire ammo is nothing like centerfire, you need to find the brand and specific Lot# your rifle likes best
    • Once you find that Lot# buy as many cases (5k per case) as you can find
  • Wolf, SK Jagd, and Lapua are all made in the same factory in Germany.
    • Lapua is the premium brand, SK is more budget minded but still very good.
    • Wolf is a bit more sporadic than SK in my experience (looser quality specifications)
  • RWS also makes Norma and Geco rimfirem ammo
  • Lapua uses more of a silicone oil bullet lube (aka Lapua Snot), Ely uses more of a wax type lube. RWS is close to Lapua snot
    • Mixing the different types of lube typically results in accuracy degradation.
    • Seasoning your barrel with 10-20 shots when switching between brands is recommended.
    • Cleaning between brands is not typically needed YMMV
  • some rimfires shoot better clean, some shoot better filthy, some a little in between
  • Savage, CZ's, and Anschutz are the three rifle brands I recommend dependent on your budget
    • If you've got extra money to burn and want a Classic look at a Winchester 52D or 52C
  • Action screw torque in the range of 18-25 in-lbs is typically preferred
  • I define practical rimfire shooting as 300yds and in. Given the right conditions, rifle, and ammo you should be able to make hits on reasonably sized targets.

These are my targets for 100yds out to 300yds. The largest is 12" tall by 9" wide and the smallest is 2.25" by 1". They are from Magnum Target


As for rimfire target rifles I have a CZ452 Varmint, CZ 452 Scout, CZ455 Varmint, Anz 64 MPR, Anz 64R, Win 52B and a Win 52D.
 
@Bunsen

My 22s:

FVSR in a Boyd’s Pro Varmint with DIP bottom Metal

10/22 with a 18” Kidd barrel in a Boyd’s thumb hole stock.

22/45 Lite Mk4

I am thinking about taking the 10/22 and getting a new trigger pack, titan stock, and then using my 4-16x Viper PST
 
@Bunsen Any thoughts on the Vudoo V-22? Saw you make a quick reference to it in another thread here.
 
Didn't realize DPRC did a precision rimfire match. Very cool, as it's only a couple miles from the house.

Dang. Now I'm seriously regretting selling my .22lr CZ 452 American & .17hmr 452 Varmint. Hope nobody laughs if I show up with a Marlin model 60 with a little 2.5x7x28 on it.
 
Nobody will laugh. There are a wide range of skill and equipment levels. The former is more important. The smallest targets are more than 2 MOA, which is within reach of lots of rifles if you know what ammo it likes.
 
Shawn is correct that I'm no longer running the PRM matches at DPRC. I needed to completely step away from DPRC after serving as the club President for 16 months.

Thankfully, @JimP42 has stepped in and is now running the matches on the second Sunday of each month. They are now on the new rimfire range and shooting out to 150yds I believe. Multiple divisions and all falling steel targets. It should look something like the videos linked below. The young lady in the videos is still shooting the match AND still beating almost everybody. ;)






Looks like fun, but sounds like everybody and their uncle has a suppressor. I don't know if it's the camera angle or what but that berm looks about 10' too short.
 
Nobody will laugh. There are a wide range of skill and equipment levels. The former is more important. The smallest targets are more than 2 MOA, which is within reach of lots of rifles if you know what ammo it likes.

Oh, I know that. Just being a goof. I used to catch some good-natured ribbing for bringing a tube-feeder to rimfire steels matches. So I came out for a match with my Marlin 39A & Ruger Single Ten ;)
 
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@Bunsen Any thoughts on the Vudoo V-22? Saw you make a quick reference to it in another thread here.

I've not seen one in person yet so I can't attest to quality, accuracy, fit or finish.

The "Holy Grail" of rimfire trainers for some has been a Rem 700 clone that fits into any and all aftermarket stocks and accepts most after market triggers. Thus shooters could set up a trainer as near as possible to their match rifles.

Acquiring a Rem 40x and sending it off for a repeater conversion was about the closest you could get.

This past summer Vudoo Gun Works "emerges from nowhere" with the V-22 and it ticks a lot of those boxes. They even have a solution for using AI pattern sized mags that run rimfire rounds. It was getting a lot of HYPE in the Rimfire section on Snipers Hide and other forums from a few select individuals (paid promoters) that had access to prototype/first production run rifles and were likely offered a significant discount on their purchase of a V-22.

I'm sure it's a nice quality rifle However there is one huge caveat that a LOT of people either chose to overlook or are unaware of...the man behind Vudoo Rifles is Mike Bush. I don't know Mike personally and have never had any dealings with him. A little Googl-Fu though should yield you the names of his four previous now defunct custom rifle businesses. (Underground Skunkworks, WildCall Custom Rifles, BlackOps Precision, and BlackOps Tech). The V-22 is just a refined version of the Ravage rimfire BlackOps was peddling back in 2012. I'm not sure how much info has been lost or scrubbed from the Hide, but do your research before sending in a deposit.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/blackops-technologies-ravage-rimfire-repeater.127333/
 
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I have seen reference to your last point on a few forums. What I have not seen if is the bolt throw is the same as a centerfire short action. I think its pretty cool Ruger added that option to their RPR22 to make the bolt through ~3.5" like the centerfire version, or pop the cap back on and it goes to shorter bolt through like typical 22's.
 
Are the matching being discussed here open for non-members? I'd like to try one once my recent purchase shows up and I can get it sighted in.
 
Open to all. Check out Dprc.org and click on Precision Rimfire in the list of matches. All the matches at DPRC are open to non-members.
 
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I've not seen one in person yet so I can't attest to quality, accuracy, fit or finish.

The "Holy Grail" of rimfire trainers for some has been a Rem 700 clone that fits into any and all aftermarket stocks and accepts most after market triggers. Thus shooters could set up a trainer as near as possible to their match rifles.

Acquiring a Rem 40x and sending it off for a repeater conversion was about the closest you could get.

This past summer Vudoo Gun Works "emerges from nowhere" with the V-22 and it ticks a lot of those boxes. They even have a solution for using AI pattern sized mags that run rimfire rounds. It was getting a lot of HYPE in the Rimfire section on Snipers Hide and other forums from a few select individuals (paid promoters) that had access to prototype/first production run rifles and were likely offered a significant discount on their purchase of a V-22.

I'm sure it's a nice quality rifle However there is one huge caveat that a LOT of people either chose to overlook or are unaware of...the man behind Vudoo Rifles is Mike Bush. I don't know Mike personally and have never had any dealings with him. A little Googl-Fu though should yield you the names of his four previous now defunct custom rifle businesses. (Underground Skunkworks, WildCall Custom Rifles, BlackOps Precision, and BlackOps Tech). The V-22 is just a refined version of the Ravage rimfire BlackOps was peddling back in 2012. I'm not sure how much info has been lost or scrubbed from the Hide, but do your research before sending in a deposit.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/blackops-technologies-ravage-rimfire-repeater.127333/

Indeed, Mike has had his trials; but, it looks like he has come forward with what he sat out to accomplish. I think that new machining technologies, the growth of PRS style shooting and the oncoming growth of 22 PRS/NRL has set the market that Voodoo is going to be a winner going forward.

I do not think that I would purchase a fully barreled rifle. But you would bet I will be purchasing the Action and having my guy build what I want. I can definitely see this being a go-forward solution for the new type of enthusiasm of the precision .22 game.

Like @Bunsen, I do not know Mike and knew that he has been trying to get the magic that the 40x repeater still holds.

My contention is why in the hell did Remington NOT see this coming market and go into full production with their actions? This is the future of our industry. Not Voodoo, per se, but the Giants of old are now long gone from the knife's edge and the smaller nimble guys will be cutting the envelope from here.

As for me... I will stick to my Annie 64, FV-SR and will add the Voodoo when the time is right.
 
Remington had some really nice .22 rifles up until the mid to late 1990's. I have a friend who shot .22's to the point of obsession and he had a short row of 40x 22 rilfes along with a 40x Sporter lightweight. Those were great rifles. He had all the 580 series and all the 540 series of rimfires at that time also. A well set up 541x is a joy to shoot.

Remington put all of their eggs into the 504 basket which turned out to be less of a rifle than the the older 540/541 rifles and no where as good as the 40x rifles. Then replaced that dog with the custom shop 547. After the bean counters took over at Remington the only push in the .22 front they have made is to try to keep the price of the 597 on par or lower than the 10/22.

<>< Fish
 
Has this recent purchase been publicized yet? After your two threads curious minds want the scoop!
Nope. Was going to wait until it was all here and assembled. Bought rifle, scope, two sets of rings (will send back whatever height I don't need) and a bipod. Silencer was already bought, but it's months away from being approved. Good thing I already have six other rimfire cans here. :D

Pretty excited about the whole setup. Unfortunately the rifle will be the last to arrive...found a deal on it online (less than both Jerek & Scott said it cost them to buy one), and they advertise 7-10 days to ship.
 
Nope. Was going to wait until it was all here and assembled. Bought rifle, scope, two sets of rings (will send back whatever height I don't need) and a bipod. Silencer was already bought, but it's months away from being approved. Good thing I already have six other rimfire cans here. :D

Pretty excited about the whole setup. Unfortunately the rifle will be the last to arrive...found a deal on it online (less than both Jerek & Scott said it cost them to buy one), and they advertise 7-10 days to ship.

Well you certainly suck! :mad:

There better be lotsmof good pictures when the set up is in house and complete dammit.
 
Catawba Valley Rifle and Pistol Club TSC Matches are open as well! After shooting a season of TSC and DPRC... man you will be a gnat-tacker by Fall!

I’m waiting on the Victor Company stock to get delivered.

But here’s my final build out:
Kidd .920 18” barrel
Kidd 2lb Trigger
Victor Company Titan in FDE
Kidd Extended Mag Release
EGW 20MOW Base
Vortex Viper PST 4-16x With Vortex Rings
Harris Bipod (might get an atlas)
Rugged Oculus Suppressor
 
What do you all recommend for scopes?

I’m leaning towards my 4-16x Viper PST.

But I’m kind of thinking I want more power.
 
What do you all recommend for scopes?

I’m leaning towards my 4-16x Viper PST.

But I’m kind of thinking I want more power.

You should be able to run the 4-16X Viper with no problems. Or at least give it a try before dumping money into something else. I've run both a 8-32x52 Konuspro F30 and a 6-24x50 Athlon Helos on my CZ and I have found that I seldom, if ever, run either at more than 14-16X. It is nice to have the extra magnification available, but I just don't seem to use it very often. I will crank the scope up occasionally when I am playing around at 300-500 yards, but that is about it.
 
You should be able to run the 4-16X Viper with no problems. Or at least give it a try before dumping money into something else. I've run both a 8-32x52 Konuspro F30 and a 6-24x50 Athlon Helos on my CZ and I have found that I seldom, if ever, run either at more than 14-16X. It is nice to have the extra magnification available, but I just don't seem to use it very often. I will crank the scope up occasionally when I am playing around at 300-500 yards, but that is about it.

I was looking at the Argos BTR 8-36x56.
Then move the Viper to my AR10 since It’s naked
 
I was looking at the Argos BTR 8-36x56.
Then move the Viper to my AR10 since It’s naked

The Argos ticks a lot of boxes for me.

I'm all for having more magnification. However the only downside is that you do need some quality glass to support good image quality above 20x.

I've not looked through any Athlon's, but I'm not sure you're going to find that quality of glass in a $400 scope.

Also I see this scope only has 45MOA of total elevation travel. You might find yourself in need of a 30-40 MOA rail to reach 300yds; dependent on how the scope zero's on your rifle relative to midpoint of travel.
 
Also I see this scope only has 45MOA of total elevation travel. You might find yourself in need of a 30-40 MOA rail to reach 300yds; dependent on how the scope zero's on your rifle relative to midpoint of travel.
I used to use paper shims in the scope rings to do the same thing. It worked for me.
Everyone was holding 20ft over at 400y, I'm aiming at the target;) it gave me an advantage.
 
Also I see this scope only has 45MOA of total elevation travel. You might find yourself in need of a 30-40 MOA rail to reach 300yds; dependent on how the scope zero's on your rifle relative to midpoint of travel.
I used to use paper shims in the scope rings to do the same thing. It worked for me.
Everyone was holding 20ft over at 400y, I'm aiming at the target;) it gave me an advantage.
Burris makes rings with offset inserts...up to 40MOA if you put a +20 on one end and -20 on the other. I have a set of the rings and inserts here that I plan on installing in the next week or so to give it a try.
 
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