Los Angeles sheriff's deputies shooting at dog kill teen

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PALMDALE, Calif. – Authorities say sheriff's deputies killed a 17-year-old boy while shooting at a dog outside a home early Thursday morning, reports CBS Los Angeles.

The station reports that according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, the teen, who was identified by family as Armando Garcia, was likely struck by a bullet that ricocheted off the driveway.

Deputies were checking on a house party at about 3:47 a.m. when they were reportedly confronted by a pit bull. At some point, Garcia came outside to check on the dog, which had bitten a deputy on the leg, LASD said. Deputies opened fire on the dog, and one of the bullets struck the boy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angeles-sheriffs-deputies-shooting-at-dog-kill-teen/
 
Guess you had to be there, no thanks. Sounds like there was a good bit of lead flying around with little regard to personal (Garcia's' actions) safety and others (deputie's actions) safety.
"The deputy who was bitten by the dog was also struck by a ricocheting bullet and was taken to a hospital for treatment, Bergner said.

The dog was shot three or four times, L.A. County animal control confirmed. It was taken to a veterinary hospital to undergo surgery, but had to be euthanized."
 
Wait... They said it was "extremely, extremely unfortunate". I think two extremelys should get 'em off the hook.

F'in idiot. Hit the dog, kick the dog, taze the dog, pepper spray the dog, or use any number of your more evolved facilities to subdue the animal. Nah, just randomly fire at it in a dark, crowded metropolitan area...
 
"My nephew was trying to save the dog because the cops started shooting at the dog," the victim's aunt, Amber Alcantar, told CBS Los Angeles. "He put his life on the line for an animal that wasn't even his."

So he ran toward the gunfire and caught a bullet.
 
Cowboy said:
"My nephew was trying to save the dog because the cops started shooting at the dog," the victim's aunt, Amber Alcantar, told CBS Los Angeles. "He put his life on the line for an animal that wasn't even his."

So he ran toward the gunfire and caught a bullet.
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Uh.......... dog? Not yours? No get shotty! The guy thought like a teenager.
 
Cases like this are why I desire to make my (rural) property into fortress. I don't care if you're from the government or even if you're there to help, unless I grant permission you're not setting foot in my space. Forced entry will be dealt with accordingly.
 
Cops likely responding to noise complaint, maybe underage drinking etc, didn't shoot the dog until after it attacks, kid comes around the corner down range. It's an urban environment, there is no safe backstop in any direction. Chalk it up to the cost of having a dangerous dog that attacked a cop and throwing a party that irritated the neighbors.

Onviously would have been better to beat the dog into submission or strangle it, but that forces the officer to focus 100% on the dog leaving him open to an attack from a nearby person. How many of you have said you'd attack someone that was hurting your dog?

Anyway, can't find an S or an F to give for this one.
 
spittinfire said:
So if I go for a walk tonight and my neighbors dog comes out and bites me, can I shoot it, shoot his kid in the hailstorm of bullets and have zero repercussions?
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Only if you have one of these two stickers on your rear window. :p

IMG_9374.JPG IMG_9375.JPG
 
premise said:
Wait... They said it was "extremely, extremely unfortunate". I think two extremelys should get 'em off the hook.

F'in idiot. Hit the dog, kick the dog, taze the dog, pepper spray the dog, or use any number of your more evolved facilities to subdue the animal. Nah, just randomly fire at it in a dark, crowded metropolitan area...
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1.3% Frontline Defense OC spray is very effective on a pit bull. I sprayed one that was after a guy on a bike just down from a house. Guy had to get off, and was keeping the bike between him and the dog. I went out to the road, and the dog started running toward me. I hit him with a stream and he turned the other direction and ran.
 
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Cowboy said:
"My nephew was trying to save the dog because the cops started shooting at the dog," the victim's aunt, Amber Alcantar, told CBS Los Angeles. "He put his life on the line for an animal that wasn't even his."

So he ran toward the gunfire and caught a bullet.
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Story I read said there were two different shootings. First time, dog attacked, and they shot at the dog. The boy cam out, got the dog away behind a building. Dog came back around the building, they shot again, kid was hit by a ricochet on the other side of the building.

At least that's how I read it.

Here's another article, seems to support your understanding:
http://abc7news.com/news/teen-dog-killed-in-deputy-involved-shooting-in-palmdale/2132183/
The dog was restrained by its owner, but as the investigation continued the animal got loose again and charged at the deputies, authorities said. The deputies then opened fire on the pit bull.
Amid the shooting, the dog's owner allegedly raced around a corner in an effort to apprehend the animal. Caught in the crossfire, the teen was struck at least once in the upper torso, sheriff's deputies said.
Click to expand...
 
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spittinfire said:
So if I go for a walk tonight and my neighbors dog comes out and bites me, can I shoot it, shoot his kid in the hailstorm of bullets and have zero repercussions?
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They haven't said no repercussions, but otherwise I think you're fine to shoot a pit that's chomping on you.
 
spittinfire said:
So if I go for a walk tonight and my neighbors dog comes out and bites me, can I shoot it, shoot his kid in the hailstorm of bullets and have zero repercussions?
Click to expand...

If you have a dangerous dog attack you or a family member and you don't shoot it who is to blame if it kills/seriously injures you or your kid? The world is not always perfect, but I don't think you would be convicted maybe not even charged for defending yourself. As for the zero repercussions that is just foolish talk. Those cops will live with the incident for the rest of their life no matter if they don't lose their jobs or get charged.
 
Cowboy said:
If you have a dangerous dog attack you or a family member and you don't shoot it who is to blame if it kills/seriously injures you or your kid? The world is not always perfect, but I don't think you would be convicted maybe not even charged for defending yourself. As for the zero repercussions that is just foolish talk. Those cops will live with the incident for the rest of their life no matter if they don't lose their jobs or get charged.
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I don’t disagree that they will have to live with their actions and the outcome, we all do. Maybe I jumped the gun with my comment because we don’t know what will happen to the LEOs involved but, I am fairly certain that if I were to do the same thing I would be charged at least manslaughter.
 
First, I will say that I am NOT a fan of people having "bully" type dogs in urban residences because it's asking for trouble.

Second, the reporting in this case is confusing. The guy, Garcia, came out to check on the dog, it says, but then says it wasn't his? Whose dog was it, whose property was it, was it in s fenced location, etc. Undoubtedly, this is a hot button topic because of the number of cases of cops shooting people's dogs.

Third, I'm sorry, you may be an agent of the state but you do not have Carte Blanche authority to go onto someone's property, inside of a privatized / fenced / protected / curtilage / etc zone and shoot people's animals for defending their territory which they will do by their very nature. I specifically say privatized / fenced, etc to distinguish this from a front door that is publicly accessible and normal. In those cases, any citizen would have grounds to defend themselves against grave bodily harm from an aggressive animal.

Which case was it?

Edit to add, I think the end consequences need to be the same for the cops as they would be for any other citizen.
 
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More excuses, justifications and "what if this happened even though it didn't it might've so they can't be held responsible because heroes" nonsense.

And yet in the same breath the argument goes that the Citizenry has no need to fear for their lives when State muscle shows up to "help."
 
SPM said:
More excuses, justifications and "what if this happened even though it didn't it might've so they can't be held responsible because heroes" nonsense.

And yet in the same breath the argument goes that the Citizenry has no need to fear for their lives when State muscle shows up to "help."
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First use of "can't be held responsible" goes to SPM.

First use of "heros" goes to SPM.

First use of "Citizenry" goes to SPM.

I guess Friday is troll day.
 
JimB said:
First use of "can't be held responsible" goes to SPM.

First use of "heros" goes to SPM.

First use of "Citizenry" goes to SPM.

I guess Friday is troll day.
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lol. Whatever you say, Jim.
 
JimB said:
Everyone plays their part, not faulting you for the one you've chosen.
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For every Patriot standing on individual Rights and Liberty there are 10 more unprincipled Tories playing the patsy of the State. No different in 1775 than it is today.

Then it was the defenders of the Thin Red Line, today it's the Blue.

As you say, we each have a role to play.
 
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spittinfire said:
I don’t disagree that they will have to live with their actions and the outcome, we all do. Maybe I jumped the gun with my comment because we don’t know what will happen to the LEOs involved but, I am fairly certain that if I were to do the same thing I would be charged at least manslaughter.
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Okay that is fair. Betty Shelby, Randle Kerrick, Jeronimo Yanez, Sean Groubert, Michael T. Slager. All charged so tell me again how it is any different.
 
spittinfire said:
I don’t disagree that they will have to live with their actions and the outcome, we all do. Maybe I jumped the gun with my comment because we don’t know what will happen to the LEOs involved but, I am fairly certain that if I were to do the same thing I would be charged at least manslaughter.
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This is what irks me sometimes, There is always the guy that comes out and says "if I did that they would..." I call BS.

Let me say this one time. You have the same rights to self defense as any cop out there and as long as you are not the aggressor you are most likely going to get a fair shake.
 
Cowboy said:
Okay that is fair. Betty Shelby, Randle Kerrick, Jeronimo Yanez, Sean Groubert, Michael T. Slager. All charged so tell me again how it is any different.
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Honestly, I think we've gone past the point of reasonableness in this direction too. Hell, under Obozo anytime a white cop shot a black, regardless of the circumstances it became a "gosh darn" federal investigation. That's not right either.

I would say that most people want the standards to be equitable for all citizens and right or wrong, there is a perception that they're not.
 
J R Green said:
This is what irks me sometimes, There is always the guy that comes out and says "if I did that they would..." I call BS.

Let me say this one time. You have the same rights to self defense as any cop out there and as long as you are not the aggressor you are most likely going to get a fair shake.
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To be fair, it does seem that they are slower to charge a LEO. I've always assumed that's because they generally know where he or she will be, so less need to detain them during the investigation. My perception of this could be wrong, as could my explanation for it, but it's what I think.
 
SPM said:
For every Patriot standing on individual Rights and Liberty there are 10 more unprincipled Tories playing the patsy of the State. No different in 1775 than it is today.

Then it was the defenders of the Thin Red Line, today it's the Blue.

As you say, we each have a role to play.
Click to expand...

Yes, "patriots" on the internet, as effective today as they were in in 1775.
 
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JimB said:
To be fair, it does seem that they are slower to charge a LEO. I've always assumed that's because they generally know where he or she will be, so less need to detain them during the investigation. My perception of this could be wrong, as could my explanation for it, but it's what I think.
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For every case they seemingly lag on the investigation there is another where they went and knee jerk charged the officer too. Kerrick and a few others that I don't remember the names of spring to mind.
 
J R Green said:
For every case they seemingly lag on the investigation there is another where they went and knee jerk charged the officer too. Kerrick and a few others that I don't remember the names of spring to mind.
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Just a little info on the kerric case. So I inside knowledge of why the second grand jury charged. For those that don't remember the first grand jury did not indict the officer finding not enough evidence. They called a second grand jury that did indict because unlike the first they did NOT show them the video of the guy running at the officer.
 
http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/armando-garcia-palmdale-shooting-dog-photo-police-california/

"Detectives have learned, Palmdale Station deputies responded to a call for service of ‘loud music.’ When deputies arrived and walked up the driveway, a 60-65 pound pit bull aggressively charged at the deputies and attacked one of them, biting the deputy on his left knee.

At that time, a male Hispanic juvenile came from behind the apartment complex and restrained the pit bull and took the dog to the rear of the apartment complex. Deputies then retreated back onto the street for safety and rendered aid to the injured deputy.

As the deputies were awaiting the arrival of paramedics, the pit bull came from the rear of the apartment and again charged at deputy personnel. At that point, two deputies shot at the pit bull from a five to seven feet distance, at which time, the pit bull retreated back to the rear of the apartment complex into the carport area. Deputies returned to the rear of the complex in an attempt to corral the dog to prevent additional victims.

As deputies walked to the rear carport area, they found a juvenile on the ground suffering from what appeared to be a gunshot wound to the chest. Deputies provided medical aide pending the arrival of paramedics. The juvenile was transported to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.

Preliminary investigation indicated the first six to eight feet where the shooting occurred with the pit bull, there was evidence of skip rounds on the driveway area. Detectives believe when the juvenile came out from behind the building, which was approximately 40 feet away from where the shooting occurred with the dog, the juvenile may have been struck by one of the skip rounds.
The deputy who was bitten by the pit bull, also was hit by a bullet fragment to his right leg. The injured deputy was transported to a local hospital to be treated for his injuries and is listed in stable condition.

Based on the pit bull’s condition, it will be euthanized.

A check of call for service for this location reveals deputies responded at least four times for loud music and gang activity in the past two months.

According to The Los Angeles Times, the pit bull “was a full grown male that weighed 60- to 65-pounds and was 5- to 7-feet away when the deputies opened fire.”
 
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3ought2 said:
http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/armando-garcia-palmdale-shooting-dog-photo-police-california/

"Detectives have learned, Palmdale Station deputies responded to a call for service of ‘loud music.’ When deputies arrived and walked up the driveway, a 60-65 pound pit bull aggressively charged at the deputies and attacked one of them, biting the deputy on his left knee.

At that time, a male Hispanic juvenile came from behind the apartment complex and restrained the pit bull and took the dog to the rear of the apartment complex. Deputies then retreated back onto the street for safety and rendered aid to the injured deputy.

As the deputies were awaiting the arrival of paramedics, the pit bull came from the rear of the apartment and again charged at deputy personnel. At that point, two deputies shot at the pit bull from a five to seven feet distance, at which time, the pit bull retreated back to the rear of the apartment complex into the carport area. Deputies returned to the rear of the complex in an attempt to corral the dog to prevent additional victims.

As deputies walked to the rear carport area, they found a juvenile on the ground suffering from what appeared to be a gunshot wound to the chest. Deputies provided medical aide pending the arrival of paramedics. The juvenile was transported to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.

Preliminary investigation indicated the first six to eight feet where the shooting occurred with the pit bull, there was evidence of skip rounds on the driveway area. Detectives believe when the juvenile came out from behind the building, which was approximately 40 feet away from where the shooting occurred with the dog, the juvenile may have been struck by one of the skip rounds.
The deputy who was bitten by the pit bull, also was hit by a bullet fragment to his right leg. The injured deputy was transported to a local hospital to be treated for his injuries and is listed in stable condition.

Based on the pit bull’s condition, it will be euthanized.

A check of call for service for this location reveals deputies responded at least four times for loud music and gang activity in the past two months.

According to The Los Angeles Times, the pit bull “was a full grown male that weighed 60- to 65-pounds and was 5- to 7-feet away when the deputies opened fire.”
Click to expand...

One less gangbanger for them to deal with now.
 
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Cowboy said:
Okay that is fair. Betty Shelby, Randle Kerrick, Jeronimo Yanez, Sean Groubert, Michael T. Slager. All charged so tell me again how it is any different.
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I googled their names and see where they are all LEOs that were charged, that's as far as I've had time to look into them today. It's not a dead set rule that LEOs don't get charged with something but it does appear that they are slower to be charged with things. Now, I'm all for LEOs having a little bit of wiggle room, they're human too and we all make mistakes. My point here is, if I did the exact same thing, I would be arrested that night. Play this out in your head....

My neighbor is having a party and it's getting late so I walk over to ask him to tone it down a bit. His dog comes out and bites me, won't back off so I defend myself by shooting at the dog. Neighbor walks out and gets hit by a stray round....I've just killed my neighbor, completely by mistake, but it still happened.

I have 2 problems with this story.
One, part of the reason I own a dog is because they're an alarm and a guard. LEO or not, when a strange person walks into a dog's territory they are going to defend it. Because the animal attacks you in that situation, I don't think gives you the right to kill it. Now, if it runs into your yard and attacks you...kill away, but not when you enter its yard. If I have a dog show aggressive behavior towards me and I don't want the fight, I've yet to have one follow me too far if I back off. They were checking on a house party, it wasn't life or death.

Two, the guy wasn't smart to run into gunfire but honestly, if you heard shooting in front of your house wouldn't you at least poke your head out to see what was going on? Also, when you discharge a firearm you are responsible for that bullet until it stops. You started it's travel and you own it until the travel stops. So they're shooting at a dog that appears to be defending its territory and while doing so they kill a person who was coming out to see what the fuss was about. Nothing about this situation describes responsibility.

Now, as I mentioned before, we don't have all the details so maybe I jumped the gun and honestly I hope I did(I'll try to be a little more reserved in the future), I hope details will come out the clarify things and show that the LEOs responded reasonably.

I've thought about entering law enforcement, you and I have talked about that, so I'm not anti LEO. I am however, against LEOs not being held to the same standards as everyone else. I'm also against everyone else not being held to the same standards as LEOs. Everyone should be the same, everyone should be equal and if everyone withheld the same standard there would be a lot less issues to deal with. In order for that to happen, personal responsibility needs to be upheld and right now in our country that isn't happening.


J R Green said:
This is what irks me sometimes, There is always the guy that comes out and says "if I did that they would..." I call BS.

Let me say this one time. You have the same rights to self defense as any cop out there and as long as you are not the aggressor you are most likely going to get a fair shake.
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I'm sorry, sir but I must respectfully disagree. If I were entitled to the same right of self defense I would not be subject to the laws of the land on concealed carry. I cannot carry in a number of places that an LEO can take his weapon.
Also, in a pure, clear cut self defense situation I would agree. I get attacked by a person and I kill him...LEO gets attacked by a person and he kills him...that's cut and dry. When you extend things beyond those terms it appears that the situation changes and it's in that situation that I have an issue. If a man breaks through my door right now and I kill him, LEOs will arrive and likely take my weapon...will they want all my weapons? What if they do?
If an LEO kills a person, do they take his weapon? Just his issued weapon or all his personal weapons too?
I haven't been in that situation so I honestly don't know. Hopefully I will never be in that situation but I do question it.
 
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I suspect that the officer will be involved in a wrongful death suit brought by the family. The department will settle it so he won't be personally on the hook for it, but that's right since he was actually at work. It'll ruin his life for a while.

About limits on concealed carry, anyone know of a case where a self defense argument was nullified because the shooter was improperly carrying concealed in a prohibited place? Heck expand that all the way to nullification because possession of a firearm was clearly prohibited by the individual. I don't think it exists, although I imagine that there are cases where the shooter was charged for unlawful possession. My point is that you have a right to defend yourself, and although there are statutory limits on certain tools for doing so, I think it unlikely that any prosecutor would be excited about testing the constitutionality of those limits in a case where a bad guy was killed in self defense.

If I am forced to shoot someone I expect the police to take that gun. I assume that whenever an officer shoots someone, and maybe every time he discharges his weapon, the same happens. If the circumstances are questionable I might be detained or even arrested. I don't imagine that they would take any other guns unless they didn't believe that the gun I offered was in fact the gun used in the shooting, and even then they would need to get a warrant. If I shoot someone at the gas station, they'd have a tough time arguing that they should have access to any guns at home or the office; they wouldn't even know about them.

I think lots of folks get worked up because they read the news on this sort of thing and image that the situation might apply to them. It was a loud party, you're thinking the kids have the music up and are jumping in the pool, there might be a little drinking and maybe a little smoke, Timmy might even be getting a bj in the shadows. This loud party could be anything from that to a pile of tires burning in the backyard, lots of drugs, obvious gang activity and organized dog fighting, we just don't know and yet we assume that it applies to us.

Guys, sorry for being testy, I've been up for several days and am finally headed to bed.
 
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