Low T

How often do you have to take it? As described on the website? I definitely want to get away from omeprazole (generic prilosec)

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I eat 3-4 after every meal. They taste pretty good actually.
 
I administer a lot of testosterone shots at work. 1 cc every two weeks for most of them. Some feel better, one guy swears by it, and has been taking it for years. Some say they cant tell a difference. I think it really matters what else you are doing. Diet plays a big part in it. I can look at these guys body habitus, and you can tell the ones that it doesn't seem to do the trick are also pudgy, and have higher body BMI (which is not a good measure) or at least over weight.

I need to look at that Papaya... if I can eat that and be a stud like @Chdamn .
 
I administer a lot of testosterone shots at work. 1 cc every two weeks for most of them. Some feel better, one guy swears by it, and has been taking it for years. Some say they cant tell a difference. I think it really matters what else you are doing. Diet plays a big part in it. I can look at these guys body habitus, and you can tell the ones that it doesn't seem to do the trick are also pudgy, and have higher body BMI (which is not a good measure) or at least over weight.

I need to look at that Papaya... if I can eat that and be a stud like @Chdamn .

I can definitely see that. Everyone wants a magic pill but there just isn’t one. There is no substitute for working out when it comes to feeling good. Take test and sit around the house and you’ll just be a fat guy that doesn’t feel good but with a raging boner.

Working out, whether cardio or weight lifting gets your entire endocrine system functioning. As you get older and test levels drop, replacing them helps ensure you can recover like you use to and aids the function of a lot of aspects in your body. It even promotes a healthier sleep cycle.

But it’s like any other supplement. You’re not going to get in shape and feel good by sitting around the house and taking xxxxxx whatever the latest fad drug is at gnc.

Edit to add, I have always worked out but have had periods in my life as long as 3 years where I would make excuses. The last one was when my son was born. Took a year off.

But I was back in the gym working out at least 3 days a week from 37-40. Felt good but sleep cycle was off, recovery sucked and fat burning was non existent. Made plenty of muscle just couldn’t ditch the fat no matter what diet I tried or how much cardio I added.

At that point I was doing 2 cycles of the 30 minute circuit trainer back to back, 3 days a week. Let me tell you that’s a killer.

Started test 4 years ago and after a month everything changed for the better.
 
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At 53 I have not been tested, have no specific performance issues in the bedroom, but have all the other issues you guys describe. I’ve spent too much time with doctors, so avoid them f I can, would just taking one of the OTC supplements discussed cause problems if I don’t have a T shortage?
 
At 53 I have not been tested, have no specific performance issues in the bedroom, but have all the other issues you guys describe. I’ve spent too much time with doctors, so avoid them f I can, would just taking one of the OTC supplements discussed cause problems if I don’t have a T shortage?

Best bet is to just suck it up and schedule a physical with blood work. T will be one of the things tested for. Not sure if it would cause problems, but if you boost it too high it gets......interesting. lol Or you could try what I'm doing and take a half dose. Maybe do that with one of the already lower dose versions and see how it goes. I went full dose on the max strength and was stunned at the difference.
 
At 53 I have not been tested, have no specific performance issues in the bedroom, but have all the other issues you guys describe. I’ve spent too much time with doctors, so avoid them f I can, would just taking one of the OTC supplements discussed cause problems if I don’t have a T shortage?

No it won’t cause any problems. I agree with Jason it’s better to know where you are and a simple blood test will do that. But you don’t have to.

Taking the supplements available today that increase your test output will increase your test output.

So even if you aren’t in the clinical realm of being low it will increase it and you will feel the effects of that. And they are all good effects.

Usually, for most people, the effects of supplements will decrease over time. As you age your body produces less test. Most people’s bodies will adjust to the supplements effects and bring your level back down to where it was.

At that point using actual test will be the only viable solution.
 
Best bet is to just suck it up and schedule a physical with blood work. T will be one of the things tested for. Not sure if it would cause problems, but if you boost it too high it gets......interesting. lol Or you could try what I'm doing and take a half dose. Maybe do that with one of the already lower dose versions and see how it goes. I went full dose on the max strength and was stunned at the difference.

It’ll make you think you’re 15 and afraid to wear sweat pants anywhere. Lol.
 
Oh, and this should go without saying, but any supplement you decide to take, do as much research on the ingredients as you can. Weigh any potential negative side effects against the benefits. Know exactly what those negative side effects are and how to spot them and counteract them if possible.

I’m of the opinion to never put anything in my body I don’t first research.
 
Thanks guys, off to do some additional research.
 
At 53 I have not been tested, have no specific performance issues in the bedroom, but have all the other issues you guys describe. I’ve spent too much time with doctors, so avoid them f I can, would just taking one of the OTC supplements discussed cause problems if I don’t have a T shortage?

Mines a little disinterested in it, but it still works. But I’m not breaking my neck looking at everything that moves like I once did.
 
At 53 I have not been tested, have no specific performance issues in the bedroom, but have all the other issues you guys describe. I’ve spent too much time with doctors, so avoid them f I can, would just taking one of the OTC supplements discussed cause problems if I don’t have a T shortage?

Just out of curiosity, you aren't on any other meds are you? The reason I ask is I also see alot of people like you, whose favorite thing to do ISN'T going to the doctor ( what's wrong with these people?) :). They occasionally are on thyroid medicine and potassium and other meds that regulate hormones, etc in their body. When they don't get levels checked, they do have other issues. Potassium and thyroid are the two I see the most. And elevated potassium ( or low for that matter) is very dangerous. Hypo/ hyperthyroidism makes you feel awful.

So not directed specifically at you, but just anyone.... If you are on these meds... " set and forget" is a poor and dangerous way to manage them. Again, for clarity Jim... Not aimed at you. You just brought a good point.

We need a men's health section :)
 
Will Brink has a lot of good knowledge about Testosterone.
He had a pretty good blog but also has a pretty long forum thread on M4Carbine about it.

I've been doing injections for several years now. I went through all the tests, MRI, etc. I started doing 200mg every two weeks and saw ok results. I played around with my dosing and tried many different dosing schedules..200mg once a week seems to be my "spot" where I see the best benefits.

My main symptoms started with insomnia, restlessness at night, night sweats, irritatibility. I've noticed that my weight loss is much better when I dose myself regularly, testosterone is a potent adipose fat burner, which is helping get rid of the belly fat. When I started on the shots I was around 316 lbs, I've managed to stay down around 240ish and still have a ways to go, the biggest thing I've noticed is that when my levels are up, I want to move, be active, doing things.

The other thing I've added recently is ZMA and 5HTP, which both help with T levels in addition to Zinc and Magnesium levels, which were low for me, most likely attributed to shift work.

And the Payaya Enzmes are no joke either, I stopped my Protonix and am just fine as long as I stick to what I should be eating. The thing that gives me the worst heartburn now is bread.
 
you aren't on any other meds are you?
Good question, in all things health related it is important to take a holistic view of things.

I try to remember to take a multi vitamin and a fish oil every day, and I occasionally take naproxen or an opioid for my herniated disc, but otherwise I don’t take anything. Should probably take an aspirin since heart issues run in the family.
 
Good question, in all things health related it is important to take a holistic view of things.

I try to remember to take a multi vitamin and a fish oil every day, and I occasionally take naproxen or an opioid for my herniated disc, but otherwise I don’t take anything. Should probably take an aspirin since heart issues run in the family.

Have you thought about stem cell injections for the disc?
 
Have you thought about stem cell injections for the disc?
No. My wife has a hip problem and we’ve talked about it for her but I never thought about it for me. You know anyone that has done it?
 
The blood work is a must to get a picture of whats going on if anything. The weighlifting is great at any age but should not be the majority of ones workout. Cardio vascular training is what may put you back up on your feet or at least will help in your overall health. It sounds like you need to burn some calories so beta oxidation is your friend; Longer bouts of aerobic activity with low to medium intensity. There is a THR(target heart rate) for every age group and you should be training in yours. Continue to bump this thread as Im in my 50's and may hit this issue one day; one can never have too much good information! Best of luck to you bro!

Rooster
 
I’ve personally never agreed with the targeted heart rate form of cardio.

I get it, studies indicate that you burn fat at a higher percentage in that range. But the truth is that if you work out in that range your calorie burning stops as soon as your heart rate returns.

Working out at a much higher intensity will burn just as much fat, albeit at a lower percentage of total calories burned, but you’re burning so much hotter it will equate to the same or close enough.

The added benefit of a higher intensity workout is that you continue to burn calories at a much higher rate for up to 8 hours after your heart rate stabilizes.

One shouldn’t jump right into high intensity if they’re overweight and out of shape. Work up to it over a period of months.

My target heart rate is around the 120 mark. I shoot for 150 and try to keep it there for at least 15 minutes. Then settle back to 120 for 5 minutes and then back up to that 15 minutes at 150.
 
The Coronary stuff(aerobic) basically helps your pump and blood plumbing. There are other systems that are dependent on healthy coronary artery function and they are many. Kcals(kilocalories, calories) are just a measurement of heat and fuel for energy expenditure and I mentioned beta oxidation to burn fats( triglycerides) instead of lean healthy tissue(proteins,muscles,organs). The reason for the longer time, is one needs to deplete glucose(think blood sugars and others sugar storage) before you can start rollin coal on the fats for energy. Aerobic(with oxygen) system use is mostly whats needed for endurance. Anaerobic(without oxygen) are our power and thrust fuels when we need some kick ass but these systems burn thru in minutes. After either activity, the BMR(basal metabolic rate, rate we burn energy asleep) is tweeked to stay elevated about a bout of excercise...usually for hours! All exercise should be based on the GPO(gradual progressive overload), aerobic or anaerobic. One increases reps, time, weight or other by the SAID(specific adaptation to imposed demands) principle.
As a former competitive bodybuilder I can tell you high intensity training is BS!! I have beat my body badly in a physical sense and now pay the piper for being the strongest guy(perceived) in the room. Whiskey, attitude and youth can be hard on everything brother...especially as you age.
I hope that your issues get corrected whether they be testosterone related or other. Exercise safely and often will only help!!

Rooster
 
Yessir....I was mostly referring to Strength and Conditioning activities(Anaerobic) and age. Weight lifting for example, most people( Like 95%) lift too much weight in their quest for size and or strength. Tears in the muscles, tears where the muscle tendon meet bone and trauma to the joint capsules occur when lifting heavy for long periods. The mechanisms that report joint angle, muscle length, etc reset and limited ROM(range of motion) occurs over time especially if not stretching properly. The best example is natural human posture. Did you ever notice old peeps tend to shuffle, are hunched forward and have no ass along with a head out in front of their bodies. This is a loss in the Postural muscles and eventually the bones fuse and there they are, usually in pain and limited in their mobility.
High Intensity training/lifting can help cause this shift in posture or at a minimum start to cause a pain condition and lost mobility, especially as we age. For example, someone can curl #100 for 10 reps using a 1-0-1 time. 1 second concentric(up) 0 seconds pause at top, 1 second eccentric(down). That person is curling to build biceps; who doesnt want "big guns"? The object is to build muscle, thats it! Unfortunately, ego plays its part and now we want to see our PB(personal best) so we pile on more weight and now we are building ego only but hurting our bodies. Building muscle requires GPO(gradual progressive overload) so how do we do it safely? Same example as above modified, curl #50 for 10 reps using 6-2-6 time. 6 seconds concentric(up), 2 second pause at top, 6 seconds eccentric(down). We are still building muscle but not using the body killing weight, whats different? TIME and less weight. We are still building muscle but we are not killing the joints. Most lifters that originally had #100 slinging through the air for 1 second struggle with half the weight controlled for 6 seconds.
In the aerobic(with oxygen) area higher intensities are almost impossible as our wind will give out and then thats it. You will stop or continue walking until your systems can metabolize the cellular waste and you regain natural respiration. SAID(specific adaptation to imposed demands)tells us to chart how far we got and try to get a lil more next bout....this works for both types of conditioning.
Lifting is ultra important especially as we age and it looks like the best non medication solution for the testosterone issue from what I have read recently.
Ill leave you with an example of Andora Quinby, RIP. No I didnt drop a barbell on her, she came to me in the 90's and wanted to be a powerlifter.....lol.....she was 84. I think she still holds the world record on the bench press at #65! Yes we trained "hard" but I respected her age and her abilities and we rarely pushed a 1repmax and she did great even on the world stage. Exercise is the best prescription!!

Rooster
 
Yessir....I was mostly referring to Strength and Conditioning activities(Anaerobic) and age. Weight lifting for example, most people( Like 95%) lift too much weight in their quest for size and or strength. Tears in the muscles, tears where the muscle tendon meet bone and trauma to the joint capsules occur when lifting heavy for long periods. The mechanisms that report joint angle, muscle length, etc reset and limited ROM(range of motion) occurs over time especially if not stretching properly. The best example is natural human posture. Did you ever notice old peeps tend to shuffle, are hunched forward and have no ass along with a head out in front of their bodies. This is a loss in the Postural muscles and eventually the bones fuse and there they are, usually in pain and limited in their mobility.
High Intensity training/lifting can help cause this shift in posture or at a minimum start to cause a pain condition and lost mobility, especially as we age. For example, someone can curl #100 for 10 reps using a 1-0-1 time. 1 second concentric(up) 0 seconds pause at top, 1 second eccentric(down). That person is curling to build biceps; who doesnt want "big guns"? The object is to build muscle, thats it! Unfortunately, ego plays its part and now we want to see our PB(personal best) so we pile on more weight and now we are building ego only but hurting our bodies. Building muscle requires GPO(gradual progressive overload) so how do we do it safely? Same example as above modified, curl #50 for 10 reps using 6-2-6 time. 6 seconds concentric(up), 2 second pause at top, 6 seconds eccentric(down). We are still building muscle but not using the body killing weight, whats different? TIME and less weight. We are still building muscle but we are not killing the joints. Most lifters that originally had #100 slinging through the air for 1 second struggle with half the weight controlled for 6 seconds.
In the aerobic(with oxygen) area higher intensities are almost impossible as our wind will give out and then thats it. You will stop or continue walking until your systems can metabolize the cellular waste and you regain natural respiration. SAID(specific adaptation to imposed demands)tells us to chart how far we got and try to get a lil more next bout....this works for both types of conditioning.
Lifting is ultra important especially as we age and it looks like the best non medication solution for the testosterone issue from what I have read recently.
Ill leave you with an example of Andora Quinby, RIP. No I didnt drop a barbell on her, she came to me in the 90's and wanted to be a powerlifter.....lol.....she was 84. I think she still holds the world record on the bench press at #65! Yes we trained "hard" but I respected her age and her abilities and we rarely pushed a 1repmax and she did great even on the world stage. Exercise is the best prescription!!

Rooster

This is spot on with regards to weight lifting, but I was talking about low impact, high intensity cardio. For me specifically an elliptical. On the subject of lifting and what you are discussing, form plays a huge part as well when it comes to gains vs damage or in most cases simply looking like an idiot in an attempt to prove how much you can lift. I constantly see people throwing their whole body into trying to sling large weight with curls and I just SMH.

However the exercise that really kills me with most people is squats. I constantly see people throwing 300 lbs or more on the bar and barely bending their knees or worse, the folks that bend forward and end up straining their backs. Drop it all the way in the hole with whatever weight you can manage and work up from there.

Stretching is also a key issue with most lifters that leads to irreparable damage. They skip stretching and jump right in.

High intensity and high impact are not the same thing. I have done massive amounts of damage to my body with low intensity, high impact thing such as humping a 100 pound ruck in the corps.

As to the price that people pay for high impact, it is true, but most of the price that I think body builders pay, at least at competition level, is the massive amounts of pharmaceutical stacking they do.
 
Yessir....I was mostly referring to Strength and Conditioning activities(Anaerobic) and age. Weight lifting for example, most people( Like 95%) lift too much weight in their quest for size and or strength. Tears in the muscles, tears where the muscle tendon meet bone and trauma to the joint capsules occur when lifting heavy for long periods. The mechanisms that report joint angle, muscle length, etc reset and limited ROM(range of motion) occurs over time especially if not stretching properly. The best example is natural human posture. Did you ever notice old peeps tend to shuffle, are hunched forward and have no ass along with a head out in front of their bodies. This is a loss in the Postural muscles and eventually the bones fuse and there they are, usually in pain and limited in their mobility.
High Intensity training/lifting can help cause this shift in posture or at a minimum start to cause a pain condition and lost mobility, especially as we age. For example, someone can curl #100 for 10 reps using a 1-0-1 time. 1 second concentric(up) 0 seconds pause at top, 1 second eccentric(down). That person is curling to build biceps; who doesnt want "big guns"? The object is to build muscle, thats it! Unfortunately, ego plays its part and now we want to see our PB(personal best) so we pile on more weight and now we are building ego only but hurting our bodies. Building muscle requires GPO(gradual progressive overload) so how do we do it safely? Same example as above modified, curl #50 for 10 reps using 6-2-6 time. 6 seconds concentric(up), 2 second pause at top, 6 seconds eccentric(down). We are still building muscle but not using the body killing weight, whats different? TIME and less weight. We are still building muscle but we are not killing the joints. Most lifters that originally had #100 slinging through the air for 1 second struggle with half the weight controlled for 6 seconds.
In the aerobic(with oxygen) area higher intensities are almost impossible as our wind will give out and then thats it. You will stop or continue walking until your systems can metabolize the cellular waste and you regain natural respiration. SAID(specific adaptation to imposed demands)tells us to chart how far we got and try to get a lil more next bout....this works for both types of conditioning.
Lifting is ultra important especially as we age and it looks like the best non medication solution for the testosterone issue from what I have read recently.
Ill leave you with an example of Andora Quinby, RIP. No I didnt drop a barbell on her, she came to me in the 90's and wanted to be a powerlifter.....lol.....she was 84. I think she still holds the world record on the bench press at #65! Yes we trained "hard" but I respected her age and her abilities and we rarely pushed a 1repmax and she did great even on the world stage. Exercise is the best prescription!!

Rooster
I don't think I have the resources to unpack all of this. Suffice it to say I disagree with several of your points. I linked to the Barbell Medicine YouTube channel earlier and I would recommend everyone check out what they have to say.

I think you and I have a lot of common ground but it isn't being explored properly here. I think you would fit in great at the Starting Strength forums.

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I will check that out Wolfpack, thank you. Proper moving and moving weight is an art for sure. There are lots of poor data out there and science is often disregarded. If anyone wants to chew on this more I will give my sources and those from whom I hold credentials and reference data.....
ACSM American College of Sports Medicine
NSCA National Strength and Conditioning Assc.
AAAI/ISMA American Aerobic Assc Intl/ International Sports Medicine Assc
YMCA
Some of these sites are behind a pay wall but there are tons of data on Exercise Physiology, Kinesiology, etc.
Most everything I have found on LowT points to positive results with structured, balanced exercise. Im curious what the MadMardigan blood profile says and the prognosis. MM if you need some help with an exercise prescription I would be honored to assist!

Rooster
 
I use Starting Strength as my guide on lifting.

My mother’s side has a history of thyroid problems, so it could be that.

Once I get something going, I will likely go to Kettlebell programs with Yoga and some running.
 
This is an interesting discussion. I just started hitting weighs at 49. I like how I am feeling. Literally everything is a little better. I think a lot of it is the positive and happy attitude that comes with getting off couch!

I am lucky as I have a friend who knows exactly what he is doing and its great because I am clueless. But the most focus has been on proper technique, and very little focus on weight itself. It has been an eye opener. Just starting to feel "different". Like, wearing a fav shirt: noticed its tighter in arms. Stuff like that. Really feels great to be making a dent on 20 years of lazy.
 
But the most focus has been on proper technique, and very little focus on weight itself.


The technique should be good, and the weight should be increasing. You'll need both.

I'll say something Mad should recognize: Strength is the production of force against an external resistance. Strength, thus defined, is the basis of our interaction with the physical world. To get stronger is to improve your ability to interact with the physical world.
 
The technique should be good, and the weight should be increasing. You'll need both.

I'll say something Mad should recognize: Strength is the production of force against an external resistance. Strength, thus defined, is the basis of our interaction with the physical world. To get stronger is to improve your ability to interact with the physical world.

Thanks!
 
High Intensity training/lifting can help cause this shift in posture or at a minimum start to cause a pain condition and lost mobility, especially as we age. For example, someone can curl #100 for 10 reps using a 1-0-1 time. 1 second concentric(up) 0 seconds pause at top, 1 second eccentric(down). That person is curling to build biceps; who doesnt want "big guns"? The object is to build muscle, thats it! Unfortunately, ego plays its part and now we want to see our PB(personal best) so we pile on more weight and now we are building ego only but hurting our bodies. Building muscle requires GPO(gradual progressive overload) so how do we do it safely? Same example as above modified, curl #50 for 10 reps using 6-2-6 time. 6 seconds concentric(up), 2 second pause at top, 6 seconds eccentric(down). We are still building muscle but not using the body killing weight, whats different? TIME and less weight. We are still building muscle but we are not killing the joints. Most lifters that originally had #100 slinging through the air for 1 second struggle with half the weight controlled for 6 seconds.
For hypertrophy, do you find that increasing the time under tension offsets the reduced load?

Is a 6-2-6 tempo what you would recommend or was that just an extreme example?
 
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Hypertrophy is "making bigger" instead of atrophy "shrinking". The increased time under tension allows for a complete ROM and is less ballistic on the joints and connective tissues. Strength training can be about "building muscle tissue" in an athlete or a person just looking to get off the john. Im trying to not get to wordy but I apologize if I do: GIC(graduated increments of contraction) tells me I recruit more individual muscle fibers when my load is increased. This is the first thing I aim for as a therapist. Building the fibers stronger is what happens when you continue the efforts and strength will fall away when you stop!
I use a 2-3second lift, 1second hold(isometric contracti0n), 2-3second return. Yes, the longer times were to push the point of control but could be utilized; With good form you can get $1 of result for every 1$ worth of effort...most dont see half that return from my 40 years.

Rooster
 
Well, I slowed down my deadlifts this morning. I was only using 50# for straight leg deadlift and the increased time to cycle through the lift could really be felt. Bumped to 70 for the rest and could really feel it. I don’t do high weights anyway so I’ll definitely start work with this. Thanks.


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Im glad you got some use from my ramblings, your very welcome! Chief are u doing a "good morning" weighted? If so, you may want to switch to standard deadlifts, heres why. With the legs locked at the knee you also lock the pelvis(lower pelvic anchor by hamstrings). This puts a tremendous strain on the lumbar spine, more importantly, the "jelly doughnuts" we call discs. You have created a hinge at the LumbarSacral region.....weighted to one side(front).
The "standard"deadlift will give you the same training benefits as the "straight leg" variety but take the excessive load off of the discs. Also, by bending the knees you bring in stronger, larger muscles(glutes or butt and upper leg muscles) therefore multiplying your training benefits by at least double for the same amount of time spent.
Like the squat, always keep the head slightly back under load; this fires the spinal stabilizing muscles from head to butt(spinal column).

Rooster
 
Im glad you got some use from my ramblings, your very welcome! Chief are u doing a "good morning" weighted? If so, you may want to switch to standard deadlifts, heres why. With the legs locked at the knee you also lock the pelvis(lower pelvic anchor by hamstrings). This puts a tremendous strain on the lumbar spine, more importantly, the "jelly doughnuts" we call discs. You have created a hinge at the LumbarSacral region.....weighted to one side(front).
The "standard"deadlift will give you the same training benefits as the "straight leg" variety but take the excessive load off of the discs. Also, by bending the knees you bring in stronger, larger muscles(glutes or butt and upper leg muscles) therefore multiplying your training benefits by at least double for the same amount of time spent.
Like the squat, always keep the head slightly back under load; this fires the spinal stabilizing muscles from head to butt(spinal column).

Rooster

Here's my reasoning, good or bad. My job requires me to pick product up off the floor regularly. 25-35 lbs at a time. I can't bend at the knees much because you can't get under this stuff and it's heavy to the front. You have to tip it up and just lift it. So it mimics what I have to do at work. With the straight leg deadlifts I don't intend to ever do a lot of weight, just slightly more than I have to do at work. I also do a standard dead lift, now using 20 lbs more than the straight leg. And I usually do the dead lift where you go just below the knees and back up at a quicker pace. So I do 3 different dead lifts at 2 sets of 10 each.

And even with these lighter loads I try to be very conscious of form. Head up, back not rounded, chest out. I pick a spot out front and look at it to keep my head up and back from rounding. And try to keep the weight close to my legs. And since I'm doing these at home in the mornings I'll never get to the big weights I might get to at a gym. Just don't have the room for it. And I'm not too interested in bulking up, just staying in good shape. I focus about as much on stretching as I do on weights. Stretching will probably be better for my longevity on the job. I do plenty of lifting at work. 2000+ trays of bread, tractor trailer and a quarter or so, a night is a lot to move.
 
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