LPVO options

Discussion in 'AR Pattern Rifles' started by Climberman, Sep 10, 2019.

?

Which LVPO

  1. Steiner

    5 vote(s)
    35.7%
  2. Trijicon

    5 vote(s)
    35.7%
  3. Vortex

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%
  1. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

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    I am beginning to consider LVPO options for an AR that currently wears a PA micro RDS. Which LPVO would you pick from the following options. Please give me your reasons also. My use is going to be 3gun/tactical competition mainly. I want clear glass and a reticle with holdovers for distance and daylight bright illumination. I think this is going to be zero'd for 50 yards and not messed with again so dialing turrets isn't an issue.


    1. Steiner P4xi 1-4x

    2. Trijicon Accupower 1-4x

    3. Vortex pst gen 2 1-6x
     
  2. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

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    none of those options at their price points. Burris RT6 all day long for your purpose.
     
  3. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Benefactor Kimberless Supporting Member

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    All good choices. I have the Steiner and Vortex, you should try them both out.
     
  4. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

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    The MSRP on that one is noticeably lower than the ones I posted. How's the glass in it? I wish there was a good way to compare that quality.
     
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  5. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

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    Very good. I have 2 of them after shopping the other 1-6x. It's also shorter than most and the Ballistic CQ reticle is the tits
    Glass is the same as the MTAC IIRC
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  6. JBoyette

    JBoyette Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Any LPVO is pointless with exposed turrets, get them capped.

    If you buy a 1-4x any brand. Do not buy it with a reticle that has a unit of measure. The FOV is too large in all the optic options.

    If you buy a 1-6x you are good to go, no issues like the 1-4x systems

    With all that, the 1-4x fov being too wide and kill a unit of measure reticle, I run a Trijicon 1-4x Accupoint in the green triangle. The tip is zeroed at 200yds, the body of the triangle is CQB 0-50 and a rough 300yd suppressive fire. with this optic, I have been known to dial dope past the zero to 600yds a few times last week.
     
  7. patina

    patina Active Member

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    Steiner will have the best glass clarity and brightest dot of the three.
     
  8. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

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    Thanks John. Can you explain a bit more on the issues with 1-4x systems and why the 1-6x doesn’t have them?
     
  9. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

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    Anybody else? Leaning Steiner currently.

    I don't get why a 1-4x with a reticle with a unit of measure is a bad idea. Does that apply to a ballistic drop reticle the same as if it was in mils? I guess it kind of makes sense that with a wide FOV, the tick marks on a mil scope would be really close together? But it seems like a 1-6x would have the same issues if it was set on 1x.

    [​IMG] vs [​IMG]
     
  10. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Benefactor Kimberless Supporting Member

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    Basic BDC is what you want, imo.
     
  11. Chuckman

    Chuckman Senior Member Sponsor

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    Steiner every day of the week and twice on Sunday, followed by the Burris.
     
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  12. th0m

    th0m 10MM is best MM

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    Steiner, hands down.

    excellent glass and day light bright dot good for 1x both eyes open. 4x is more than enough to get you out to typical 3gun distances. you will absolutely want a bdc type reticle for 3gun. steiner reticle + a good ballistic app like strelok and you're set with whatever load you want to run.

    bonus, one of the steiner 1-4x SKUs (search for it, dont recall which one) ships with a throw lever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  13. patina

    patina Active Member

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    I don't understand your reasoning here. The only time you are going to use the unit of measure in the reticle is at full power (4x). You're not using 200/300/400yd subtensions at 1-3x.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  14. JBoyette

    JBoyette Well-Known Member Vendor

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    NP,

    Riflescopes "all optics in this matter" reticles are presented to the shooter in relative terms. The relative is the FOV as demonstrated with first focal plane optics. With any UOM Reticle the subtend must span the distance as designed, if a first focal plane, no issue, second focal plane, typically in the highest magnification setting "4x". With that, at 4x the FOV is much wider than a 6x optic, but 4x more restricted then a RDS system. This leaves alot to be desired and also why the market is going away from UOM-Reticles in 4x. BDC reticles are more useful in this power range, this is also why I find it hard with any optic prices above $700 to not just buy a 3.5x ACOG and be done with it for life...

    To drive my point home, if you have access to a first focal plane optic that adjusts down to 4x, go use it past 400yds for holds and ranging. Then adjust the optic to 6x and see the diffrence for your self. Just looking through it is not the same as holding, ranging and using it.

    Two of the three optics you point out are BDC with 9", 18" range-finding ability, not a UOM-Reticle. So any of them are fine in this reguard. If it was up to me, I would run the Trijicon because I own one and have used it for the past 8 years. Vortex has a great warranty and the warranty gets used alot... Steiner never used it.

    John
     
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  15. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Benefactor Kimberless Supporting Member

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    Acog are a very poor choice for multigun or competition, imo.

    Actually couldn’t pick a worse optic for it.
     
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  16. patina

    patina Active Member

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    To simplify, your observations are that 4x has a wider FOV than 6x and less FOV than a RDS? And that 6x is stronger magnification than 4x?

    Most LPVO are SFP for a reason and that reason is cost. It is very expensive to produce a FFP reticle that works at 1x and this is the challenge for most FFP LPVO (dial your 6x/4x FFP down to 1x and see what I mean). WITHIN the SFP options most consumers purchase based on glass quality/clarity, eye relief, field of view and reticle (most importantly brightness of reticle). The whole point of an LPVO is to have a large eye box for dynamic speed at 1x like a rds with the ability to engage targets beyond 200yds with the throw of a lever.

    How many consumers are actually using 2-3x or 2-5x? I would assume very few. Are intermediate magnification settings used in combat for fast acquisition snap shots inside 200yds? Probably more likely. Are sub $1k budget SFP optics used in combat? No.

    I think it would be much more productive if everyone tried to keep these discussions within the scope of the original question instead of using them as an opportunity to spout counterproductive information and further muddy the waters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  17. 88Mustang

    88Mustang Every day above ground... Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    I have steiner and accupoint 1-4x24 side by side and each looks exactly the same.at 1x and 4x, The trijicon 1-6x24 I got from a forum member looks better than both of the 1-4s.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  18. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

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    I don’t think I have the cash for the Trijicon 1-6 unfortunately.
     
  19. 88Mustang

    88Mustang Every day above ground... Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    I only got it because it was a very good deal, not likely to get another. lockedandloaded.com had the Steiner for 479. otd IIRC.
     
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  20. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

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    got a link? That web address doesn't exist anymore.
     
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  21. 88Mustang

    88Mustang Every day above ground... Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    lockedloaded.com I paid, 494.01 OTD
    *Edit* add it to cart, then you have to provide first/last name and email and they will send you a quote with coupon code
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  22. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Benefactor Kimberless Supporting Member

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    Try and get the throw lever model if you can.
     
  23. 88Mustang

    88Mustang Every day above ground... Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    They have the throw lever SKU
     
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  24. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl seriously? Life Member

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    Got my P4Xi with the throw lever from DSG Arms for $539 OTD, though that's with their LE/Mil discount.
     
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