LT survival and meds.

tanstaafl72555

tanstaafl72555

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I don't take any medications. None. Never have. I go into the Dr. Office to have my cancer checked and they ask "what medications are you taking?" I respond "none" .... "NONE?????" "Yes ma'am. None" Sometimes they will roll their eyes or smile and say something like "That's very unusual for a 68 year old man" I usually just smile and say "I have always been a weird-O" or something like.

My principles (hear that?, they are "mine" ... doesn't mean you have to buy into them:

1) the medical profession has been 100% completely subverted by pharma, so that they are taught, trained, encouraged and compensated to seek a chemical solution to every ailment. I don't trust them. Even the good ones (and there are more than a few good ones)
2) I believe that losing weight, eating healthy, getting exercise, dumping stress will do FAR FAR more towards keeping one healthy than medications
3) I believe that even severe life threatening diseases that demand perpetual medication (thyroid diseases, which run in our family, and diabetes, which is quite terrifying, and cancer) can be "managed," if not eliminated, by bringing your body into a healthy state, and letting your own immune system fight the disease.

I want my life and my family to be one that a shutdown of deliverable drugs does not spell impending death for me or those I love. Therefore, I ain't taking your damned statins. I am not taking your blood pressure meds. When my mother in law died, she was taking maybe 23 medications daily, and I swear, if the Drs had told her to swallow a tablespoon of cyanide daily she would have nodded blankly and recited something like "well, I am not a doctor... I guess they know best."

It does bear thinking about that for those of us who think "what if" that one of the biggest blessings we would have in a crushing series of events is health. Crap, that is great even if there is no crushing series of events.

Finally, I will leave you with this. Carole mentioned seeing a guy in church who just went thru radiation/chemo. About my age. He is "cancer free" (a myth. everyone has cancer cells, they just sometimes go into hyperdrive and your body's natural defenses are suppressed and can't effectively fight them). I dunno if I am. I really thought last week I had a bowel blockage and I thought "oh well here it comes again." I no longer think that, but all this just makes me more aware of it all. Anyway, Carole said "I looked at you, and I looked at Tim and you just *LOOKED* overall healthier. Your hair, skin, eyes. You weren't pasty or drawn, though you are both thin." I know I feel better than I ever have, but I MUST stay on a strict diet (not of bill cosby's rice cakes, either... that was a hilarious episode if you saw that).

I dunno. I might die tomorrow, or next week. The cancer could come raging back and eat out my guts. If it does, I will starve the tumor to death. I might starve myself to death in the process, but at least I won't be throwing money at Upjohn. I am convinced of this. We are crazily over medicated and not at all prepared for a period of immediate supply chain drug provision. We need to break away from that.

YMMV
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
I don't take any medications. None. Never have. I go into the Dr. Office to have my cancer checked and they ask "what medications are you taking?" I respond "none" .... "NONE?????" "Yes ma'am. None" Sometimes they will roll their eyes or smile and say something like "That's very unusual for a 68 year old man" I usually just smile and say "I have always been a weird-O" or something like.

My principles (hear that?, they are "mine" ... doesn't mean you have to buy into them:

1) the medical profession has been 100% completely subverted by pharma, so that they are taught, trained, encouraged and compensated to seek a chemical solution to every ailment. I don't trust them. Even the good ones (and there are more than a few good ones)
2) I believe that losing weight, eating healthy, getting exercise, dumping stress will do FAR FAR more towards keeping one healthy than medications
3) I believe that even severe life threatening diseases that demand perpetual medication (thyroid diseases, which run in our family, and diabetes, which is quite terrifying, and cancer) can be "managed," if not eliminated, by bringing your body into a healthy state, and letting your own immune system fight the disease.

I want my life and my family to be one that a shutdown of deliverable drugs does not spell impending death for me or those I love. Therefore, I ain't taking your damned statins. I am not taking your blood pressure meds. When my mother in law died, she was taking maybe 23 medications daily, and I swear, if the Drs had told her to swallow a tablespoon of cyanide daily she would have nodded blankly and recited something like "well, I am not a doctor... I guess they know best."

It does bear thinking about that for those of us who think "what if" that one of the biggest blessings we would have in a crushing series of events is health. Crap, that is great even if there is no crushing series of events.

Finally, I will leave you with this. Carole mentioned seeing a guy in church who just went thru radiation/chemo. About my age. He is "cancer free" (a myth. everyone has cancer cells, they just sometimes go into hyperdrive and your body's natural defenses are suppressed and can't effectively fight them). I dunno if I am. I really thought last week I had a bowel blockage and I thought "oh well here it comes again." I no longer think that, but all this just makes me more aware of it all. Anyway, Carole said "I looked at you, and I looked at Tim and you just *LOOKED* overall healthier. Your hair, skin, eyes. You weren't pasty or drawn, though you are both thin." I know I feel better than I ever have, but I MUST stay on a strict diet (not of bill cosby's rice cakes, either... that was a hilarious episode if you saw that).

I dunno. I might die tomorrow, or next week. The cancer could come raging back and eat out my guts. If it does, I will starve the tumor to death. I might starve myself to death in the process, but at least I won't be throwing money at Upjohn. I am convinced of this. We are crazily over medicated and not at all prepared for a period of immediate supply chain drug provision. We need to break away from that.

YMMV
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I LOVE YOUR Mindset. You my friend are a GEM. I totally agree with all you shared. GOD Bless You !!!
 
I would say that you’re welcome to your opinion, but we’re eating worse, exercising less, getting more medical care, and living a little longer with each generation so have a different opinion.

(Yes, most of the longer average life is the reduction of mortality for infants and youth, but the old folks are making small advances)
 
I take daily allergy meds. and some motrin now and again
I'm a wreck without allergy meds. there's never any getting around that. I'd have to move to a place without all the allergens. The desert is about all that may work for me.
My PhD happens to be in pharmacology. I don't like medicine.
 
I generally never post anything online about what I do for work. ~30ish years in pharma manufacture. While I can be, and am, proud of the products I have been associated with, I do not trust this industry. Not one little bit. Whatever you imagine the depths of corruption in big pharma pales in comparison to the reality of it.
 
@tanstaafl72555 your commitment to that lifestyle is admirable. Please do not take this as a dig. I respect your opinion to live your life your way, and support you 100%. My question, with your choice of not using any modern medicines. Why go to the doctor?
 
Eddie while I applaud you for your stubbornness I can’t say I totally agree with you when it comes to number 3. Cancer can be “managed or eliminated” by brining your body into a healthy state. Does it help to be healthy and not an obese pig? Of course. Someone with an elementary education could tell you that. Is that actually going to prevent the cancer from spreading or eliminate it? No.

Prime example and one I HATE to share: My father in law is 69 years old and has been fighting lung cancer for 4 years. A “never smoker” He’s almost at the end of his fight. Probably weeks to a month left (hopefully so much longer but being real). Point is when he was diagnosed and up until last month he was probably the most healthy and fit looking man you’d have ever met. He would run circles around me and I’m half his age. He’s run a marathon up Pike’s peak and other crazy places - competitively. He was a beast and continued to be until the cancer spread to his brain which has caused numerous debilitating physical/mental issues.

Has his diligence to eat right work out and stay healthy prolonged his life? Absolutely. Has it “eliminated” his cancer? Absolutely not. That’s not how cancer cells work. You’re a smart guy and I know you know that.
 
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GymB said:
I would say that you’re welcome to your opinion, but we’re eating worse, exercising less, getting more medical care, and living a little longer with each generation so have a different opinion.

(Yes, most of the longer average life is the reduction of mortality for infants and youth, but the old folks are making small advances)
Click to expand...

Short term data so far, but some official did issue a statement a while back that we have a problem. Naturally his statement got little play.

Life Expectancy in the U.S. Dropped for the Second Year in a Row in 2021

National Center for Health Statistics
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
 
Modern medicines are the only thing giving me a reasonable quality of life and also prolonging this life. Everyone is responsible for their own health and the decisions made for it, but at this stage of my life I'm taking whatever modern medicine is offering, including every immunization. Pneumonia, RSV, Flu, Covid, Shingles,yes thanks.
 
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Average Joe said:
@tanstaafl72555 your commitment to that lifestyle is admirable. Please do not take this as a dig. I respect your opinion to live your life your way, and support you 100%. My question, with your choice of not using any modern medicines. Why go to the doctor?
Click to expand...
great question. family pressure. completely. and I do not mean my wife.
 
Average Joe said:
@tanstaafl72555 your commitment to that lifestyle is admirable. Please do not take this as a dig. I respect your opinion to live your life your way, and support you 100%. My question, with your choice of not using any modern medicines. Why go to the doctor?
Click to expand...
In reality, though. Some things DO need doctors. I would not go to a naturopath if I am bleeding out from a car wreck. I need a skilled tradesman to staunch the bleeding. I did have a (FANTASTIC) surgeon who cut out my tumor and removed a segment of my colon. If I am sitting there with a raging fever and my blood pressure is dropping, OF COURSE I will seek a physician.


The biggest thing I object to is 1) the presupposition that the primary path for treatment is a pharmaceutical one and 2) the development of so called "well care medicine". If I am well, I do not NEED medicine, and even when I am not well, I need a guide who believes there are other and better paths to health than synthesized drugs. Synthesized drugs are like raining down a hail of nuclear bombs to deter a group of 14 border hoppers. There are other, less dramatic paths which (I believe) are overall healthier for your body.

I realize -again- this is MY opinion and no one in here is obligated to agree.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
In reality, though. Some things DO need doctors. I would not go to a naturopath if I am bleeding out from a car wreck. I need a skilled tradesman to staunch the bleeding. I did have a (FANTASTIC) surgeon who cut out my tumor and removed a segment of my colon. If I am sitting there with a raging fever and my blood pressure is dropping, OF COURSE I will seek a physician.


The biggest thing I object to is 1) the presupposition that the primary path for treatment is a pharmaceutical one and 2) the development of so called "well care medicine". If I am well, I do not NEED medicine, and even when I am not well, I need a guide who believes there are other and better paths to health than synthesized drugs. Synthesized drugs are like raining down a hail of nuclear bombs to deter a group of 14 border hoppers. There are other, less dramatic paths which (I believe) are overall healthier for your body.

I realize -again- this is MY opinion and no one in here is obligated to agree.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response. It gives me a better understanding of your original post and your beliefs about modern medicine.
 
Unfortunately nearly every disease state is a combination of factors that we can control as well as factors that we can’t (most often genetics). If you smoke, eat poorly, have uncontrolled hypertension or diabetes, etc then you will absolutely experience negative health effects and shorten your life span. The sad reality is that you can also do everything correctly and still not optimize your health. If your grandfather, dad, and uncle all died of massive heart attacks in their 40s then you can rage against the evils of the pharmaceutical industry all you want, but just realize that taking a statin has a good chance of adding a few decades to your life.
 
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tanstaafl72555 said:
In reality, though. Some things DO need doctors. I would not go to a naturopath if I am bleeding out from a car wreck. I need a skilled tradesman to staunch the bleeding. I did have a (FANTASTIC) surgeon who cut out my tumor and removed a segment of my colon. If I am sitting there with a raging fever and my blood pressure is dropping, OF COURSE I will seek a physician.


The biggest thing I object to is 1) the presupposition that the primary path for treatment is a pharmaceutical one and 2) the development of so called "well care medicine". If I am well, I do not NEED medicine, and even when I am not well, I need a guide who believes there are other and better paths to health than synthesized drugs. Synthesized drugs are like raining down a hail of nuclear bombs to deter a group of 14 border hoppers. There are other, less dramatic paths which (I believe) are overall healthier for your body.

I realize -again- this is MY opinion and no one in here is obligated to agree.
Click to expand...
I think that we’d all be better off if we’d realized this back when the first digit in our age was a 1 or maybe a 2. By the time it’s a 6 much of the damage is beyond the ability of the body to repair without intervention.
 
GymB said:
Covid 😂😂
Click to expand...

Well since ‘covid’ supposedly murdered old people that would not make a significant statistical impact on the stats. Younger people would have to die to make it go down.

Maybe you should acquaint yourself with the data from Ed Dowd’s group. 🤣😂🤨

Humanity Projects - Projects

phinancetechnologies.com phinancetechnologies.com

Or maybe research what has gone on with the group life insurance companies. 😳
 
GymB said:
I think that we’d all be better off if we’d realized this back when the first digit in our age was a 1 or maybe a 2. By the time it’s a 6 much of the damage is beyond the ability of the body to repair without intervention.
Click to expand...

i used to agree with that 100% but I am not so sure now. I have read about all sorts of healing and miraculous sounding things. I’d say we still really know cery little about health, healing and what is possible. The allopathic medical system is great at treating trauma and fixing broken things, but not very successful at treating root causes.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
Just got off an 8 day water only fast. That stuff is GREAT!
Click to expand...
I have done 5 day water only several times. 5 seems to be the sweet spot. Diminishing returns after that, but I stay hard core keto for at least two weeks after, which keeps you burning fat.
Is it crazy that your body desires it after the first time?
 
Chuckman said:
Cancer is simply cell growth gone crazy, unable to stop or slow the speed of replication. That can happen at any number of a thousand steps. And each cancer is uniquely different with its own fingerprint.
Click to expand...
Cancer loves Glucose. Cancer Needs Glucose to grow so fast.
What if? What if there was an evil empire, AKA Big Pharma?
An empire of chemicals controlled by evil humans with no regard for your health, only your Money.

Just imagine the control these people would have over your health.
Covid was a very loud wake up call for us all. My journey started when I got a Bad Flu that was really Covid 19.
Out of nowhere I got hit with, Hey you have to get a Covid 19 Untested, rushed vaccine. WTF Why?

No good answers, only lies. Why are they making it so hard for me to buy Ivermectin for my Dogs?
I had to order Ivermectin for my dogs & us through www.indiamart.com the last order was confiscated by
US Customs. PayPal quit protecting my transactions overseas. What was going on?

You all remember how they were selling Covid death warnings, & now they say it's no worse than a bad Flu. :confused:
A lot of lies were told by Big P .GOV & the Media to cover up medications that could save lives.
Wonder what other Medications they are hiding to make more Profit from your illness & death?

There are more than a few, however two very important drugs came to light & are very telling as to what
they are really up to.

Ivermectin & Fenbendazole. Both Anthelmintics. Both are curing cancer, or I should say both are killing cancer.
Do your own research don't trust anyone when it comes to your families' health & wellbeing.

Start with the: https://mycancerstory.rocks/author/joetippens/

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ivermectin, a potential anticancer drug derived from an antiparasitic drug

Ivermectin has powerful antitumor effects, including the inhibition of proliferation, metastasis, and angiogenic activity, in a variety of cancer cells. This may be related to the regulation of multiple signaling pathways by ivermectin through PAK1 kinase. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Albendazole and Mebendazole as Anti-Parasitic and Anti-Cancer Agents: an Update

The use of albendazole and mebendazole, i.e., benzimidazole broad-spectrum anthelmintics, in treatment of parasitic infections, as well as cancers, is briefly reviewed. These drugs are known to block the microtubule systems of parasites and mammalian ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fenbendazole has only been approved for veterinary use and is yet to be established as safe for human use. Really?
I think the reason they kept it from us was to make more $ from our suffering & death.
Don't forget, drugs made for animals are the floor sweepings from making Human drugs. :D Right LMAO!!
Remember you are dealing with Liars, & you can not trust them anymore, if ever.
Good luck & good health Gentlemen. ;)
 
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Marturo said:
Cancer loves Glucose. Cancer Needs Glucose to grow so fast.
What if? What if there was an evil empire, AKA Big Pharma?
An empire of chemicals controlled by evil humans with no regard for your health, only your Money.

Just imagine the control these people would have over your health.
Covid was a very loud wake up call for us all. My journey started when I got a Bad Flu that was really Covid 19.
Out of nowhere I got hit with, Hey you have to get a Covid 19 Untested, rushed vaccine. WTF Why?

No good answers, only lies. Why are they making it so hard for me to buy Ivermectin for my Dogs?
I had to order Ivermectin for my dogs & us through www.indiamart.com the last order was confiscated by
US Customs. PayPal quit protecting my transactions overseas. What was going on?

You all remember how they were selling Covid death warnings, & now they say it's no worse than a bad Flu. :confused:
A lot of lies were told by Big P .GOV & the Media to cover up medications that could save lives.
Wonder what other Medications they are hiding to make more Profit from your illness & death?

There are more than a few, however two very important drugs came to light & are very telling as to what
they are really up to.

Ivermectin & Fenbendazole. Both Anthelmintics. Both are curing cancer, or I should say both are killing cancer.
Do your own research don't trust anyone when it comes to your families' health & wellbeing.

Start with the: https://mycancerstory.rocks/author/joetippens/

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ivermectin, a potential anticancer drug derived from an antiparasitic drug

Ivermectin has powerful antitumor effects, including the inhibition of proliferation, metastasis, and angiogenic activity, in a variety of cancer cells. This may be related to the regulation of multiple signaling pathways by ivermectin through PAK1 kinase. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Albendazole and Mebendazole as Anti-Parasitic and Anti-Cancer Agents: an Update

The use of albendazole and mebendazole, i.e., benzimidazole broad-spectrum anthelmintics, in treatment of parasitic infections, as well as cancers, is briefly reviewed. These drugs are known to block the microtubule systems of parasites and mammalian ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fenbendazole has only been approved for veterinary use and is yet to be established as safe for human use. Really?
I think the reason they kept it from us was to make more $ from our suffering & death.
Don't forget, drugs made for animals are the floor sweepings from making Human drugs. :D Right LMAO!!
Remember you are dealing with Liars, & you can not trust them anymore, if ever.
Good luck & good health Gentlemen. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be obtuse, your post is rambling and goes from topic to topic without a lot of cohesion. Can you bottom line your perspective about cancer and cancer treatment?
 
Chuckman said:
Can you bottom line your perspective about cancer and cancer treatment?
Click to expand...
Marturo said:
My journey started when I got a Bad Flu that was really Covid 19.
Out of nowhere I got hit with, Hey you have to get a Covid 19 Untested, rushed vaccine. WTF Why?
Click to expand...

Me? A guy who wanted to become an herbalist & moved to western NC to go to school in 1976.
Granny women & medicine men were who I sought to learn from what was fast disappearing.
So I do know a bit about human health & the magic God placed here for our health & comfort.



It took a long time & a lot of correspondence with people who used words I had to look up.
Big Pharma has been very evil for a very long time.
The bottom line is,there are drugs that may cure cancer. Research some decades old show there were
studies that showed extreme promise in treating cancer. This data was never published.

Working for Yamaha in 72 I got to learn about test the japanese did with American V8s that obtained
over 100 MPG. Never saw the light of day in the US.

Point? Human Greed can replace Human kindness.


Marturo said:
Cancer loves Glucose. Cancer Needs Glucose to grow so fast.
Click to expand...
It could be this simple.

I have been using the Joe Tippens protocol for 2 years now, & I am doing just fine.
Bottom line, if it don't work no loss, however if it does.... :) No Cancer???
 
Marturo said:
PayPal quit protecting my transactions overseas. What was going on?
Click to expand...
PayPal quit protecting your’s and others’ transactions overseas because they were being killed by people being scammed and they had no recourse or any possible way to recoup their money. However, you are right it was about the money. They are a for profit business, I expect nothing less than from them. But I f you believe it was because they are part of some secret cabal then you are sadly mistaken.

As far as your other statements about animal and other non-traditional meds, I respect your right to make what you believe are educated decisions. And at the end of the day it is not my place to say what you should do for your or your family’s health. So I will not debate you or anyone regarding what is ultimately your decision.
 
Marturo said:
It could be this simple.

I have been using the Joe Tippens protocol for 2 years now, & I am doing just fine.
Bottom line, if it don't work no loss, however if it does.... :) No Cancer???
Click to expand...

Don't conflate correlation with causation, or exclude independent variables.

Or in other words, if it was that easy, everyone would do it....

I always stick by the motto "If it works for you, keep doing it." But in medicine and cancer, it ain't that simple, and there is rarely a one size fits all.
 
I’ve been in tractor supply a lot this past week and they have plenty of ivermectin.
 
Chuckman said:
That's a little disingenuous. How many types of cancer are there? How many types of cells are susceptible to cancer? How does DNA factor into cancer replication?
Click to expand...
I think you may have hit the issue here dead on. The allotropic school basically maintains that cancer is largely due to a genetic predisposition to "something" which causes cells to begin replicating wildly, causes tumors, etc. Therefore, the way to attack the disease is to find some way to "beat the tumor back"... usually with some type of chemical compound which attacks the tumor (usually attacks other internals, as well) and radiation poisoning in the immediate area.... again, circumscribed as much as possible. This is followed up with more chemical agents which attempts to suppress the tumor.

A holistic approach says that "no, this is NOT the cause of cancer at all. It is rather the result of chronic inflammation which affects cells we ALL have (not just special cells for which we have a genetic predisposition toward), and the continual assault on the organs/tissues/cell layers that results from chemical additives in food, obesity, stress, and poor health... all those produce an internal petri dish for the development of cancer, as well as diabetes, thyroid issues, and other maladies like diabetes.

That is painting with a VERY broad brush, I know, and I cannot hope to be fair to either party with such a short description, but that really is it in a nutshell. I have no desire to start a flame war in here nor attack those who throw their lot in with the mainline medical establishment, which is overwelmingly allotropic in its approach. I just think they are wrong. I believe the first path should be to get the body to where it can fight off something like cancer, and I believe it can. This is the path increasingly chosen in most of the rest of the world, where-interesting enough- the pharmaceutical industry has neither the lobby not the almost exclusive lock on cancer research they do here.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I will die earlier than I should because I am wrong. I am not God and do not have all knowledge, but am an ordinary guy facing life threatening issues and trying to figure out how to exit this life with as little pain for those who love me as possible.


I will tell you one story, which I may have related in here. Augustus Owlsley Stanley III. He was a complete genius, and also eccentric to an extreme. He was the kind of guy who, when in college, and was in a Electrical Engineering class, simply borrowed the text from the library, kept it a week, returned it, and had the contents mastered. He aced his chemistry and physics (circuitry stuff) without ever cracking a book, but he was an autodidact (self taught) master of a number of fields..... including LSD manufacture. His "Owlsley acid" (stamped with, appropriately enough, an owl) was the gold standard back in the day. He kept on making it after 1965, when it became illegal, having become a millionaire many times over. He glommed onto a San Francisco area band and became their sound man, doing stuff that can only be described as genius for clear, crisp harmonic sound. You may have heard of the band. They were the Grateful Dead.

Anyway, "Bear" as his nickname went, developed cancer. I think it was esophygeal, but I don't remember. Anyway, like the off kilter genius he was, he started reading about cancer ... and I don't mean self help books on how to help you or your loved ones thru it. He read lab tests, research papers, medical reviews, treatment protocols and all sorts of scholarly stuff. All kinds of research from all over the world on all types of cancer. He came to the conclusion that 1) tumors thrive on glucose 2) humans are meant to be carnivores (!?!?!?!?) and 3) a strictly carnivore diet would prevent tumor growth. Mind you, this was back in 1966 LONG before the alt-health fads and keto diets and all. The tumors did not go away, but they did stop growing. With time, they shrank away. The man who had less than 2 years to live finally died at age 76 in a car wreck in Australia (he was a global warming nut long before "Earth in the Balance" and thought the Northern Hemisphere would become uninhabitable, so moved to Australia).
I throw in that filler because I always find "larger than life" people odd and interesting and the details are fascinating. However, the core is this: there is a whole alt-medicine school that has grown up opposed to the allotropic model. I say "grown up" but it is rather a long and well documented web of theory about cancer and its treatment (as well as diabetes, blood pressure, arthritis, etc) which says that western medicine is 100% completely and unambiguously WRONG in their entire picture of human inflammation diseases, cancer being a big one.

I am not going to engage with people who think this is crazy, on the level of wild eyed conspiracy nonsense, and adopt the posture "no thank you, I will stick with 'medicine' rather than witch doctor crap." I get that. All of us have various reasons for choosing the rubrics into which we slot the info that comes to us. If you think I am wrong, I simply wish you the best. The only thing I will be tempted to return scorn and contempt for is accusations that I am ignoring "science" for some wackadoodle empirically unsubstatiated body of theories....., but I have encountered none of that in this thread.

Here is to a healthy life to all.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
I think you may have hit the issue here dead on. The allotropic school basically maintains that cancer is largely due to a genetic predisposition to "something" which causes cells to begin replicating wildly, causes tumors, etc. Therefore, the way to attack the disease is to find some way to "beat the tumor back"... usually with some type of chemical compound which attacks the tumor (usually attacks other internals, as well) and radiation poisoning in the immediate area.... again, circumscribed as much as possible. This is followed up with more chemical agents which attempts to suppress the tumor.

A holistic approach says that "no, this is NOT the cause of cancer at all. It is rather the result of chronic inflammation which affects cells we ALL have (not just special cells for which we have a genetic predisposition toward), and the continual assault on the organs/tissues/cell layers that results from chemical additives in food, obesity, stress, and poor health... all those produce an internal petri dish for the development of cancer, as well as diabetes, thyroid issues, and other maladies like diabetes.

That is painting with a VERY broad brush, I know, and I cannot hope to be fair to either party with such a short description, but that really is it in a nutshell. I have no desire to start a flame war in here nor attack those who throw their lot in with the mainline medical establishment, which is overwelmingly allotropic in its approach. I just think they are wrong. I believe the first path should be to get the body to where it can fight off something like cancer, and I believe it can. This is the path increasingly chosen in most of the rest of the world, where-interesting enough- the pharmaceutical industry has neither the lobby not the almost exclusive lock on cancer research they do here.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I will die earlier than I should because I am wrong. I am not God and do not have all knowledge, but am an ordinary guy facing life threatening issues and trying to figure out how to exit this life with as little pain for those who love me as possible.


I will tell you one story, which I may have related in here. Augustus Owlsley Stanley III. He was a complete genius, and also eccentric to an extreme. He was the kind of guy who, when in college, and was in a Electrical Engineering class, simply borrowed the text from the library, kept it a week, returned it, and had the contents mastered. He aced his chemistry and physics (circuitry stuff) without ever cracking a book, but he was an autodidact (self taught) master of a number of fields..... including LSD manufacture. His "Owlsley acid" (stamped with, appropriately enough, an owl) was the gold standard back in the day. He kept on making it after 1965, when it became illegal, having become a millionaire many times over. He glommed onto a San Francisco area band and became their sound man, doing stuff that can only be described as genius for clear, crisp harmonic sound. You may have heard of the band. They were the Grateful Dead.

Anyway, "Bear" as his nickname went, developed cancer. I think it was esophygeal, but I don't remember. Anyway, like the off kilter genius he was, he started reading about cancer ... and I don't mean self help books on how to help you or your loved ones thru it. He read lab tests, research papers, medical reviews, treatment protocols and all sorts of scholarly stuff. All kinds of research from all over the world on all types of cancer. He came to the conclusion that 1) tumors thrive on glucose 2) humans are meant to be carnivores (!?!?!?!?) and 3) a strictly carnivore diet would prevent tumor growth. Mind you, this was back in 1966 LONG before the alt-health fads and keto diets and all. The tumors did not go away, but they did stop growing. With time, they shrank away. The man who had less than 2 years to live finally died at age 76 in a car wreck in Australia (he was a global warming nut long before "Earth in the Balance" and thought the Northern Hemisphere would become uninhabitable, so moved to Australia).
I throw in that filler because I always find "larger than life" people odd and interesting and the details are fascinating. However, the core is this: there is a whole alt-medicine school that has grown up opposed to the allotropic model. I say "grown up" but it is rather a long and well documented web of theory about cancer and its treatment (as well as diabetes, blood pressure, arthritis, etc) which says that western medicine is 100% completely and unambiguously WRONG in their entire picture of human inflammation diseases, cancer being a big one.

I am not going to engage with people who think this is crazy, on the level of wild eyed conspiracy nonsense, and adopt the posture "no thank you, I will stick with 'medicine' rather than witch doctor crap." I get that. All of us have various reasons for choosing the rubrics into which we slot the info that comes to us. If you think I am wrong, I simply wish you the best. The only thing I will be tempted to return scorn and contempt for is accusations that I am ignoring "science" for some wackadoodle empirically unsubstatiated body of theories....., but I have encountered none of that in this thread.

Here is to a healthy life to all.
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I am pretty liberal when it comes to healthcare. I certainly do not think the west corners the market; if we did, how have the Chinese, Africans, Indonatives survive so long? I think there is a lot of benefit to non-traditional/non-western medicine.

I think more than one thing can be true; I think the allotropic and the holistic are both true. We know that inflammation is part of it. We know genetics is part of it. I don't know that we know the relationship between the two; at least, in all cases. Per the bolded/italicized, one does not have a special cell; we ALL have the exact same types of cells. What is different is that although finite, the ways those cells grow and regulate can be switched on and off at a multitude of 'places' on the genome are extremely varied. What might switch on a cell for me, might be different than you, for the same cell.

Oncology is a weird animal for sure, but I think throwing the baby out with the bath water with one approach at the sacrifice of the other is extremely shortsighted and narrow-minded. I would say the same for people who would eschew anything other than western approaches to any type of medicine, too.

I am happy when people can be healthy via diet and naturopathic means (or not going on medicine); who doesn't want the best form of themselves? But I also know know that all people can't simply 'try harder' or 'wish it to be so'. Some people need doctors, some people need medicine. It is what it is.
 
Chuckman said:
I am pretty liberal when it comes to healthcare. I certainly do not think the west corners the market; if we did, how have the Chinese, Africans, Indonatives survive so long? I think there is a lot of benefit to non-traditional/non-western medicine.

I think more than one thing can be true; I think the allotropic and the holistic are both true. We know that inflammation is part of it. We know genetics is part of it. I don't know that we know the relationship between the two; at least, in all cases. Per the bolded/italicized, one does not have a special cell; we ALL have the exact same types of cells. What is different is that although finite, the ways those cells grow and regulate can be switched on and off at a multitude of 'places' on the genome are extremely varied. What might switch on a cell for me, might be different than you, for the same cell.

Oncology is a weird animal for sure, but I think throwing the baby out with the bath water with one approach at the sacrifice of the other is extremely shortsighted and narrow-minded. I would say the same for people who would eschew anything other than western approaches to any type of medicine, too.

I am happy when people can be healthy via diet and naturopathic means (or not going on medicine); who doesn't want the best form of themselves? But I also know know that all people can't simply 'try harder' or 'wish it to be so'. Some people need doctors, some people need medicine. It is what it is.
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We are both dealing with cancer here. I hope you outlive me. I truly do.
 
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