Morons still complaining about US women trouncing Thailand

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by fishgutzy, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Mike Overlay

    Mike Overlay Lacks seriousness Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  2. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Benefactor Kimberless Supporting Member

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    Yeah it’s reality. They are bigger, stronger, faster, kick harder, throw further. Do to testosterone, they are far more competitive and better at sports in every way.
    This is true for all sports.

    Ronda Rousey looks tough. Until you throw her in the cage with Mighty Mouse Johnson. Who would just walk up and body smash her into a heap.
     
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  3. sr30

    sr30 Member

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    You have a background in soccer? Playing? Coaching?


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  4. sr30

    sr30 Member

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    I’m not talking about a fistfight, did you read the article?


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  5. 11B CIB

    11B CIB IG: HandloadsAndHoldovers Staff Member Charter Life Member

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    Yup that’s the point I (poorly) alluded to.

    Rhonda Rousey owned some interviewers about the same thing:



     
  6. Cowboy

    Cowboy Glances can deceive

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    Should the WNBA players be making the same amount as the NBA players? I mean it's the same sport right. I think if they want to do it fairly they provide the same percentage to both teams but that would mean the men's team would get a raise.
     
  7. wvsig

    wvsig Well-Known Member

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    The income disparity after the new collective bargaining agreement for the Womens team brings them closer to what the men make. On a annual sechedule of 20 friendlies they par difference is about 11% or $28K which is not chump change.

    The Fact Checker obtained the new agreement, which took effect in April 2017. Using the same 20-game scenario, we calculated the player on the women’s team would earn $28,333 less, or about 89 percent of the compensation of a similarly situated men’s team player. If both teams lost all 20 games, the players would make the same amount. That’s because the men earn a $5,000 bonus when they lose and the women have a $100,000 base salary.

    The real disparity comes in when you look at the World Cup Money from FIFA as Cowboy pointed out. The mens tournament generates a lot more money than the womens does on an international level. The entire payout for the Womens World Cup is less than what the Mens winning team gets.

    The issues is however a little more nuanced when it comes to the US Federation. The US mens team sucks. They basically get a free ride because the rest of the world pays huge money to watch Football/Soccer. A top tier striker in Europe like Messi make € 500K a week to play at the pro level. That money flows into the Cup. The US men are not competitive but they get to suck on that tit. As a result they make more than the women. It has nothing to do with their play on the field. It has everything to do with the economics of the game in Europe.

    Inside US the Women actually generate more $$$ than the men. They sell more Jerseys. They drive the sponsorship and TV ratings when it comes to the World Cup. More people watched the Womens final in the US in 2019 then watched the Mens final in 2018. The attendance for their friendlies is on par if not higher than the mens. The total sponsorship money is tough to weed out because the US Federation does not let you sponsor only the men or the women. It is a package deal. So it is hard to determine which on drives the $$$. These days is the Women IMHO. So within the US the Women's team because of its success on the pitch actually generates more money than the mens team. So they should be paid the same if not more by the US Federation for the 20+ friendlies a year each team plays. IMHO.

    The disparity in the FIFA money and bonus money that comes from the Tournaments cannot be balanced because the 2 Cups are completely different in their economic scale. One is the most watched sporting event on the planet where Billions of people watch all over the world vs a event that has never drawn 100 Million to their TVs/Computer screens. Also FIFA is a corrupt and misogynist as any organization on the planet.

    To the idea that football/soccer will get better in the US that is a pipe dream. The best players on our team are all products of the European system. They take the kids in their early teens and they go to football/Soccer academies where they train like professionals. Similar to tennis schools in the US or golf schools for the Korean Women. The European system pays for this and they pluck those kids out of these for the pro level game. The level of play at these academies is what produces top players. We have nothing like that in the US. Think of minor league baseball with billions of $$$ behind it. That is the rest of the worlds soccer farm system. Our best are bottom feeders in this system. I played as a kid in the travel system in the 80s and 90s and people always talked even back then about the US one day dominating international Football/Soccer but it never happened and I don't think it ever will. At least not in my lifetime.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  8. BlackGun

    BlackGun Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The government and courts have already ruled on equality in sports. It’s arose from Title IX which never mentioned sports. Title IX was equal opportunity in education but became recognized as the equality in the number of sports and scholarships given to females in college (although grade school also benefited). Hence the cutting of scholarships for men’s sports in smaller revenue athletic teams. I could be wrong but there are more women’s college sports teams than men due to the larger number of women in schools.

    Many schools have dropped men’s sports to accommodate women sports but yet they have no attendance. When my son was in school on scholarship the female chancellor highly suggested his ROTC unit attend women basketball games to boost attendance. Other groups who were funded by the school were also suggested to attend. It wasn’t a suggestion really but a threat. Can you image trying to study, run with 35 lb packs each morning at 5:30am, train, and attend classes then made to go watch horrible sports in the night hours. Very few women sports get good gate receipts. Honestly other than women’s tennis I can’t think of another. And let’s face it the men just want to see women in short dresses.
     
  9. wvsig

    wvsig Well-Known Member

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    None of that applies to Womens Soccer at the national level in the US. No one is forcing anyone to attend the US national teams games regardless of gender. Women's tennis Womens Golf and Womens Gymnastics all draw in the US. The Womens national soccer teams is pretty close to the mens these days in terms of attendance for Friendly matches in the US. #redherring
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  10. BlackGun

    BlackGun Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I’ll simplify it for you:

    1. The thread got broadened into equal pay in like sports.
    2. Nobody gives a shit about women’s sports. To include women viewers.
     
  11. wvsig

    wvsig Well-Known Member

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    I believe you are wrong on that point. It is not as popular as mens sports but to say no one cares is a bit of a stretch but I guess if it fits your narrative by all means believe that to be true.
     
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  12. BlackGun

    BlackGun Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Some good points here. But 1980 and 1990 soccer when you played was barely even played. Living in an isolated county you don’t see the vast number of fields and traveling teams in metro areas. Just look left going to Winston before you cross the Yadkin River. The local high school here has been state champions 3 or 4 times and to the semis others. While football once produce 60 varsity players, last year only 22 came out. Soccer traveling teams are everywhere now.
     
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  13. RedneckFur

    RedneckFur Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace.

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    I know soccer is big around here. Not far from my house is a big soccer complex with several fields, and its frequently in use. The local park I go for walks in has a big grassy field and there's almost always 1 or 2 informal soccer matches going on every time I visit.
     
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  14. BlackGun

    BlackGun Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Ticket sales, shoe deals, and jersey sales don’t lie. I watched the World Cup and have for three cycles. And that will be the only women finals in any sport I have ever watched. I have three daughters. Two played traveling and high school sports. I went because they were my girls. It was the parents in attendance. The money for them to participate came from gate receipts from football.
     
  15. wvsig

    wvsig Well-Known Member

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    I grew up in Montgomery County MD and played travel soccer in MD, DC and VA. I played 3 seasons a year. Spring, Fall and Winter Indoor on full fields in a converted indoor tennis facility that a Brit Expat bought and converted. The leagues in the DMV in those days were some of the best in the country. I played in a 3 tiered system with relegation and promotion. I played in the top tier for years. It had huge support in the area. The league still exists. It is called the NCSL.

    https://ncsl.demosphere-secure.com


    National Capital Soccer League (NCSL) is the DC Metro area's premier promotion-relegation soccer league, serving approximately 30,000 travel soccer players every year representing many of the most successful clubs in the nation. It is a club-based league, which requires clubs to meet league standards in order be considered for entry and must be voted in by other member clubs, and schedules games at the team-to-team level in order provide the most appropriate and competitive game-day experience.

    It offers appropriate soccer competition for boys and girls teams aged 7 through 19. With approximately 1,100 teams competing in eleven age groups, NCSL is one of the oldest, largest, and most well-known travel soccer leagues in the nation. It currently features 72 member clubs centered in Maryland, DC, Virginia, and West Virginia.

    One of the reasons that the US Womens team excels is because the US development system for players is better than any other in the world. It is the highest level of play from youth to the pro level. Money flows into the womens game at the youth level at a higher rate then the mens because the mens side has to compete with the traditional US money sports. Baseball, Football and Basketball. On the womens side there isn't a huge desparity between what a professional womens soccer player will get paid vs a womens pro basketball player will make. Golf, Tennis & recently MMA are really the only big money opportunities in womens sports.

    Until the Mens side can match the level of play in the rest of the world at the developmental level it will never catch up. I just don't see it. Lots of the same talk has been around for a long time was my point. It is not a new concept. I would love to see it but I just don't think it is going to happen in my lifetime. The money that pours into the football/soccer development world is mind blowing. Much of it these days is coming from the middle east. The deficit is to high IMHO. YMMV
     
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  16. wvsig

    wvsig Well-Known Member

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    The womens soccer jersey is the highest selling Nike Soccer Jersey of all time in the US. The Womens team draws 85-90% of the mens team in terms of attendance. I would bet more people can name a member of the Womens National team than the mens. I personally think the womens game has the opportunity to grow in the US. The mens not so much because the talent and development system is not there on the mens side.
     
  17. grungewehr39

    grungewehr39 here to be Happy Supporting Member

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    I'd rather watch WNSM team in action.
     
  18. Charlie

    Charlie Member

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    Billy Jean King showed that some women can whup some men some of the time.

    However, comparing most men's sports to most women's sports is like comparing apples to oranges. If an orange wants to be an apple, let it compete with the apples to see if it can be successful in the world of apples. If you want to keep the apples and oranges separate, pay them according to how much money they can generate. They are entertainers. Some entertainers make more than do others.

    Get rid of the W in front of all the teams and let there be just one college or professional football, tennis, golf, basketball, … team in which all people are allowed to participate. All potential players would be required to demonstrate the same level of skill and physical ability in order to be placed on the team. If women and all the other scores of "genders" are, indeed, equal to men, then there should be no problem. If gender is a social construct, then there should be no problem. I doubt that most women would like this because the teams would generally wind up being mostly males.

    I have often wondered why people would even want to hire men to do a job if women can do the same job for less money.
     
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  19. BlackGun

    BlackGun Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Getting back to the original topic of the thread. I would never ask my players or subs to not go all out. Killing clock when up is a recipe for fans leaving.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  20. fishgutzy

    fishgutzy Senior Member

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    Women beach volleyball comes close. Ha!

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  21. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Coming from a high school perspective - I see some male sports which pull way more than girls, and some girl sports that pull way more than boys. It depends on the sport and how good they are.
    IE: my school's women's basketball is great, typically only lose one game AT MOST during regular season, and went to state finals four years ago.
    But, then you have football, which is going to pull more than volleyball.
     
  22. wvsig

    wvsig Well-Known Member

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    Yet they do it all the time in all sorts of sports. People “run out the clock” to protect leads and players. I think in this instance the US team was so superior that even the subs were easily scoring.

    I definitely would have told all my players to protect themselves and that one more goal was not worth taking an injury or hard penalty.
     
  23. Charlie

    Charlie Member

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    Back in my HS coaching days I considered several things when deciding whether to run up the score. I generally felt that it was somewhat rude to run the score up to ridiculous levels on a team that was obviously inferior. That would be embarrassing to both sides. Putting in the second string or the less skilled players may still be embarrassing to the other team but would usually reduce our scoring and would give good experience to future first stringers. That, however, was not against a professional team in a world-class match but rather against kids. I would be more likely to allow the score to get higher than necessary against teams who had run the score against us when we were having a bad year. What goes around comes around. I also realized that tired players are more likely to be hurt than are fresh players and might take out my first string so they could be healthy to play another day. That would be the same whether the players were kids or world-class professionals.

    I would not ask any player to do less than his or her best but might put in players whose best is not as good as the first string players' best.
     
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  24. Cowboy

    Cowboy Glances can deceive

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  25. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    That is freaking funny!

    "U.S.—Despite the U.S. Women’s soccer team’s stunning performance in winning the World Cup, there is a giant pay gap between them and the less successful men’s team. This has caused a huge outcry, as many Americans are now baffled that anyone is paid to play soccer.

    “What? Why? How?” stammered plumber Rory Eubanks, expressing the sentiment of many Americans. “Where is that money even coming from?”
     
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  26. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Benefactor Kimberless Supporting Member

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    Yes. I lettered in soccer 3 years, as well as rugby and football for two years each. I also played 5 years of soccer prior to that. I have seen and played coed soccer as well.
    I have not coached soccer but I did coach little league.

    Not that it’s any of your business or has anything to do with this discussion. Don’t understand why you need my resume to understand that men at far superior to women in all sports?
    It’s pretty evident to anybody who has ever watched or played sports.
    If you have any proof to the contrary please educate us all.

    Yes I read the article. I don’t really care what you were talking about. I was talking about men vs women in sports. I made a clear point and you apparently are choosing to miss it.
     
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  27. sr30

    sr30 Member

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    Dirty play is one thing, killing a few secs here or there is just smart coaching.


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  28. sr30

    sr30 Member

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    Because if you’ve never played the game and are just bloviating, that makes you an ignorant ass.

    You can choose to believe what you believe based on an isolated incident, mr contrary.


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  29. grungewehr39

    grungewehr39 here to be Happy Supporting Member

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    So correct me if I'm wrong. The men's league generated $6,000,000,000 in revenue this year. The men's players got 7% as pay. The women's league generated $132,000,000 and they got 22% for pay. Where's the inequality????????? If they want more scratch, put more asses in the seats.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  30. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Benefactor Kimberless Supporting Member

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    OK, well I've played the game quite a lot. So, maybe you are the "ignorant ass" here?
    You keep quoting me as if you disagree, but have yet to make any kind of point at all.

    Do you have any kind of argument to refute what I said? Go ahead and just spit it out.


    What "isolated incident" are you talking about?
    I believe what I believe based on EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL SPORT IN HISTORY.

    "Isolated incident" hahahahahahaha!

    If you could post some facts on women beating men in sports, those would be the "isolated incidents" you brought up. Quite bloviating and please make some kind of argument. Or quit quoting me if you don't have one.
     
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  31. Cowboy

    Cowboy Glances can deceive

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    Pay Gap: This Church Softball Team Doesn't Make Nearly As Much Money As The New York Yankees

    CEDAR FALLS, NV—A spokesperson for local church softball team the Grace Community Evangelical Eagles lodged a formal complaint against both the MLB and the Cedar Falls Church Softball League after it was revealed that there is a humongous pay gap between the Eagles and the New York Yankees.

    "We actually have a better record than the Yankees right now," the spokesperson said, pointing out that their record is currently 6-3 while the Yankees are sitting at a middling 57-31. "And yet somehow, even their average players get paid millions, while we each have to pay a registration fee and buy a $10 shirt to participate."

    "How can you lose 31 games in just half a season and make millions? This is a clear example of persecution and discrimination against Christians."

    It was pointed out to the team that the Yankees bring in way more revenue than a church softball game, which might make $90 in sales at the snack bar. But the Eagles weren't having it.

    "We believe in equality. And if that means we need to each pull in a cool seven or eight figures, that's the price we're willing to pay."


    https://babylonbee.com/news/church-...fW4rarxBtUWX905VDcwjSvjcn_s8WVHWMa4uM3rdRSATQ
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  32. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    9BA91913-AA29-4580-98FF-D51ED6358597.gif
     
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  33. sr30

    sr30 Member

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    I’m referring to the particular time a Boys 15 team beat them. You’re quoting that as gospel like it proves your point.

    I too played soccer through HS and have coached as well, I don’t claim to be an expert, I’m simply refuting your claim that a HS boys team could beat the USWNT. You base your claim on one isolated incident and your anecdotal evidence.

    I’m refuting YOUR CLAIM that a HS boys team could beat the USWNT....

    Do I need to repeat it?

    You’re making a blanket statement and ignoring what I said, attempting to conflate my argument w what you believe I said.


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  34. ChickenHawk

    ChickenHawk Carpe natem Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    A group of 14 year old boys beat the Australian women's team when they were ranked 4th in the world. It's not an isolated incident. Just like how a mediocre men's tennis player whipped up on the Williams after playing a round of golf and having drinks.

    We had a state championship winning girls basketball team at my high school while the boys team was dead last in just our division. They trounced the girls team several times a year even though they were the worst of the boys' teams.
     
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  35. 12151791

    12151791 [This Space is Available for Rent] Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  36. sr30

    sr30 Member

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    Again, I’m refuting his claim that a HS boys team could beat the USWNT...

    Nothing more, nothing less.


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  37. sr30

    sr30 Member

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    Of course their answer will be they want EQUAL pay, and ignore the fact it’s a greater percentage of revenue...


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  38. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Well, If I understand correctly based on teh link, a HS boys team DID beat the USWNT in soccer...but if they were just going out to get touches on the ball and not just destroy these 15 year old kids, then is it a fair assessment?

    I wont deny that men are, typically, stronger and faster than women in almost all sports. It's ok, it's genetics. But to assume any old high school team could beat a world champion team when both are playing to their actual abilities...
     
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  39. ChickenHawk

    ChickenHawk Carpe natem Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    If they were out to just get touches on the ball then why play against the high school team at all? If they are as extremely talented as is claimed then they should have won without even trying. Maybe they just completely moved out of the way everytime one of them had the ball. The same thing happened in Australia.
     
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  40. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    But what else could have been at play?
    What I mean is this - was it some sort of fundraiser also?
    Did the team they play pay money to play against them?

    Ive got a friend who is a big Hurricanes fan. And a few years ago he opted to spend several thousand on an experience where they got to spend a day getting 'coached' by former Hurricanes players and then they played a game right after a home 'Canes game. He scored against a NHL Stanley Cup winning goalie...is it possible that the goalie 'allowed' pucks in because lots of money was played and they knew it'd be a cool thing for the folks to experience?Yeah, probably.
    So, is it POSSIBLE that something similar happened in this match?
    I dont know
     
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