My first "Black" rifle...(aka: Tons of stupid questions thread)

Pogue

Well-Known Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
4,287
Location
SC
Rating - 100%
17   0   0
Bought a PSA stripped lower the other day to kind've force my hand into building my first...

1) Are the PSA's worth throwing quality parts at or should I have spend $$ on something better in the first place? (little late, I know, but I can always toss this thing deep into the safe and buy something else)

2) Parts availability is pretty overwhelming....I plan to start with an aftermarket trigger group (CMC, wilson combat, or Giessele) What lower parts do you typically upgrade right off the bat? I'd hate to buy one of those lower parts kits only to find I don't need 80% of it.

3) Just double checking that 16" barrel is still legal for civilian use

4) Read a pretty informative article ( https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/ ) that says to go with a 5,56 Nato chambered barrel as opposed to .223 Rem. Is that the consensus here?

5) What do I need to know about "gas blocks" and uppers? (see.....total noob)
 
1) A lower is a lower is a lower, if it is in spec. In fact, most lowers are made by a handful of companies.

2) The trigger you get depends on the mission of the gun (mission drives gear): plinker/range gun? SD/HD? Competition? Precision? Generally speaking, Geissele is one of the better companies that make a variety for pretty much all needs. The rest of a LPK can be "generic" as long as it is in spec (i.e., fits in all the holes and spaces). You don't need "anti-walk pins" either.

3) 16" is fine

4) 5.56, or .223 Wylde. Both can shoot each. .223 Rem won't shoot 5.56.

5) I am not as educated on gas blocks, so I will let someone else field that. As for upper receiver, like lowers, if they are spec, they are good to go.
 
Last edited:
I just put a Giessele on my PSA. Its also tricked out with Magpull furniture I use this one as my coyote gun. 4 or 2 legged versions
 
My advice, for what its worth:

1. PSA is fine for a fun range rifle. Ive built a few and shot them quite a bit. No problems at all. Most of the hate comes from people who spend 2-3k on rifles and rarely use them. They are not top shelf but they are of a decent quality and put rounds where you want them.

2. But before you go throwing a bunch of money into upgrades, just build a basic model. With the parts they send you. Put a decent optic on it, or even iron sights. Then go to the range and shoot it. A lot. Find out what >you< like. Do you like optics? Do you prefer Irons? Do you think the trigger needs upgrading? Are you hitting the target? Do you like the furniture it came with, or do you want something else? I recommend taking a class with it. Put some serious work into the rifle from a user perspective. Shoot yours, and then shoot another one with the upgrades.

3. Yes, 16 is fine

4. 5.56 is favored mainly because you can shoot 5.56 and .223 through it with no problems. .223 is limited to .223 ammo only, so it cuts out some deals you may get and the selection of ammo that's out there. Its similar to being able to pay the same amount for a .357 as a .38, so get the .357 so you can shoot more variety.

5. Not my forte

AR15s are the legos of the firearms world. There is no "one answer" that is best to how one is set up. I know people who keep them bone stock and can shoot them like greased lightening. I also know people who drop thousands into aftermarket parts and leave the rifles sitting in the safe because they are afraid it will get dirty. What you are doing is like buying a beater used Honda motorcycle in order to learn how to ride. If you bang it up a bit, its no big deal. You will learn how to ride, and learn what you prefer, so in the future you don't waste your money on "upgrades" that aren't necessary.

That said...CMC triggers are freakin sweet.
 
Chuckman nailed it on #2...the mission is critical in deciding on a trigger.
If it is going to be range/plinker, or maybe even HD/SD, you should check out the ALG ACT trigger. Quality parts for just a few bucks comparatively. Sure, the pull weight is a little higher than those expensive ones, but it breaks clean and consistant and thats all you really need just for plinking. I have two rifles with the ACT in them and they are more than adequate. Oh, and iirc, ALG is owned by the wife of the Geisselle fellow.

If it's for competition/precision, by all means, drop the cash on a high end trigger. You won't be disappointed.
 
For the most part, lowers are created equal. Some brands may have a little better QC, but nearly every lower out there is made by a small group of foundries. Unless you want a specific feature, you can go with virtually any off the shelf lower. PSA lowers are fine. I have a variety of lowers, and I can't tell that any one is definitely better than the others.

When you're mixing brands, you may sometimes get a little loose play between upper and lower. It can seem alarming at first, but it doesn't effect the function of the firearm. A small strip of duct tape, or a plastic accuwedge can tighten them up if the rattle bothers you.

I run standard factory triggers in several of my AR's. Some are better than others. In my upgraded guns, I have CMC 3.5lb flat blade single stage triggers. I like them. No noticeable creep, clean break. And they're pretty affordable. If you're looking to get into a specific shooting sport, you may want to talk to guys already in it, and see what they're running. Different triggers may work better for some applications. My AR's with CMC's are usually shot from a bipod, and they work great for that.

16" is perfectly legal. Its probably the most common barrel length you'll run into.

5.56 is the way to go. A .223 Rem chamber won't play nice with 556 ammo, but a 556 chamber will run NATO ammo and 223 just fine.

I haven't played around with adjustable gas blocks, because I haven't had a need to do so. If you go with a factory built upper, just make sure that your FSB/gas block is mounted straight and not canted. If you buy a free floated upper, make sure the gas block isn't touching the rail/tube anywhere.
 
If you start off with a Geissele or CMC, you'll never know what a true milspec trigger feels like. Personally, I have done my own trigger jobs in the past, but for the majority of rifles I have built (including AR10s) or owned, the PSA coated EPT trigger is every bit as good as a ALG ACT, maybe even better with a JP spring kit. it's Nickel-Teflon coated so the surface will never change or 'break in' like non coated ones will, so if it's good out of the box it's good forever. I've never had a bad one, most are very crisp with no creep, and at $30 plus may another $10-15 for lighter springs, you'll have a nice 5lb trigger without dropped multiple benjamins.
They put them in alot of their lower built kits now so the cost may be next to nothing. My AR10 came with one from the factory (in the lower) and with an nice Wolff spring kit, the trigger pull is 4lbs and zero creep.
 
Lots of great advice already...thanks fellas. Thoughts on twist rate for a 16" barrel? I'm gonna piece it together for the most part....hate spending $$ twice, so i'd rather end up with something worth having the first go round.
 
Lots of great advice already...thanks fellas. Thoughts on twist rate for a 16" barrel? I'm gonna piece it together for the most part....hate spending $$ twice, so i'd rather end up with something worth having the first go round.

Again, what is the mission of the rifle? Hunting will get you a different preferred twist rate than a DS/HD rifle. Also, twist bullet weight-dependent.

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/ar-15-barrel-twist-explained/
 
No real purpose....just to have it. Doubt I'd hunt with it, I've got better options for that, No long distance (200+ yards) again, better options on hand already....doubt i'd use it for HD...better options there as well.....No competitions cause there's no attraction/appeal there for me.....Zombie apocalypse maybe? Ammo's dirt cheap and stockpile-able. What it can do I don't have a current need for....its just an option box i can't currently check. (Does that make any damn sense?!)
 
Since this is your first AR I would suggest buying a complete upper. With prices being so low the savings of building a rifle are minimal. Honestly if I was in your shoes I would stash the lower in the safe and catch a sale on one of the PSA EPT complete lowers. I have built them but do not find it as enjoyable as some folks.
 
Last edited:
Since this is your first AR I would suggest buying a complete upper. With prices being so low the savings of building a rifle are minimal.

I wasn't shooting for saving $$, some of these barrels for example cost more than a complete upper from PSA. Just want to end up with something I don't have to go back through and upgrade again once its done.
 
I second buying a complete upper since you are so new. If you go ahead and get the bolt and upper together, there's normally no reason to question headspace or the gas system set up.

Also thinks its a good idea to think a bit more economical in your novice stage. Example: I can't see dropping 2-3 times more on a trigger that doesn't shrink my group size by the same average. Not saying you need a mil spec trigger but I don't know that a $250 Giessele is going to result in that big of a difference on paper/steel/critters vs a $70 or so ALG ACT. I've got a friend that went all out on his first rifle, that was an AR, and got a Giessele and low mag vortex. I still outshot him with my milspec trigger and Magpul flip up sights. Point being, you're best served getting good basic stuff and spending the rest of your money on ammo and actually shooting it. I've thought about putting a new trigger in my LRish fun gun but darnit, I'm getting a 3.5in group with my stock accutrigger at 550 yrds. This game is a lot like getting more speed out of a race car. You'll pass the point of diminishing returns very quickly.
 
RE: #2....

All of my ARs still have GI triggers. I tend to spend more money on optics (as evidenced by my Trijicon obsession), though I save money there by buying used in most cases.
 
How about buying a complete rifle that you know will work. I know...blasphemy!

I scratched that itch about a year ago and decided just to buy a complete rifle (EA-15 .223 Wylde, 1:8 twist). I don't believe that it was any more than buying parts. $150 less than the M&P Sport at the time.

I've taken the time to work on my basic skills and know what I like and don't like about it.

I'm going to start replacing stuff like the trigger and A2 post sight/gas block.

I'm keeping the good/reusable stuff for a possible later build in case I get the must build one myself itch.
 
Last edited:
I also recommend a "serviceable" first build. There are infinite directions to go with a build. But a basic type build with irons will perform most any job decently. Unless there is a manufacturing issue pretty much all AR's will do 2moa with irons.

My first build was just to get an AR. Then as I found what I did and didn't like. Upgraded as I saw fit to get it where I wanted. You may be perfectly happy with a basic version or the sky is the limit.

Of course that's where the addiction comes in. At some point that rifle morphed into a bench style rifle. All the take off parts came back together to form a basic build again that is a great "beater/truck" gun.

Then I went even more basic with a different caliber ar, 7.62x39. Bench with magnification. Truck gun with red dot and different caliber with irons....

I have more plans In store. Need an AR10 platform. A pistol. A PCC. Another 5.56 with just irons. Oh dang:confused:
 
I'll chime in more when I get to a computer, but there are more options than you could imagine. Shameless plug: you could build a cheaper rifle than the one I am selling, but it won't hold value like this one. As someone who has built 8 or 10 rifles now, bought another 12 or 15, and traded God knows how many, if I was starting today from scratch, I'd buy a complete gun and shoot the piss out of it for 6 months, then build my next 2 or 10 based on additional needs/preferneces/wants.

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/colt-le6720-lightweight-n-raleigh.22690/
 
Lots of great advice already...thanks fellas. Thoughts on twist rate for a 16" barrel? I'm gonna piece it together for the most part....hate spending $$ twice, so i'd rather end up with something worth having the first go round.
1:8 or 1:9 for bulk ammo. You’ll shoot 55 or 62gr stuff for stock pile. Unless you want to spend twice as much for heavy hunting loads.

I have a gun with loads of Star War accessories that comes in at over $4000.00 with a $225 trigger, one I built was $1600.00 or more, and one I have $800.00 in. Trigger pull is important but a cmmg trigger polished will be fine with lighter $15 springs. Put your money in the scope or red dot. Cheapest backup sights you can find because in the end they never get used.
 
I agree with those who said build get a KISS rifle. I have had a bunch of them but you cant beat a 16" mid with an A2 fixed sight for all around use.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
You can't go wrong following most of the advice already given. Buying an AR-15 already built is an easy way to learn about this weapon platform before stumbling through a build, ESPECIALLY since you don't really have an end-use in mind.

With that said, I approached my first build a little different because I really enjoy the challenges of "The Build"! I spent a long time reading and talking to people before starting the parts buying process. I found out real quickly that there are more personal opinions than there are available parts to buy! :eek: I was lucky enough to have a good LEO friend that was his department's armorer. The best lesson I learned from him is that quality/dependable parts don't have to be the most flashy, and definitely not the most expensive! What is most important, like many said above, is know what the main purpose(s) is for the weapon.

So, I did build my first AR, but a year later I took a basic PSA complete AR in as trade. The PSA's value was probably a little more than half what I had spent on my build. The PSA was just as enjoyable and shot just about as good (based on my poor shooting ability!) as my built AR. I have since built two more ARs, but wish I still had that PSA (sold) around to "toss" in the truck!!

Good luck with your search! Careful though, it is habit forming!!:cool:;)
 
Last edited:
Ok, at my computer so I want to chime in with a little more.

I built my first AR in 09 right after Obama was elected. I paid way too much for a bunch of ok stuff that I really didn't end up wanting long term. Of that first rifle, and actually second rifle as well, I only have three things left: the two optics and the BCM upper (now on it's third rail). Not that any of this was bad and I did learn a lot and get a good feel for different parts, but it would have been much more financially sound and easier had I bought a quality gun first and shot it. The reason is less about the quality impacting performance and more about it impacting resale. Had I bought a complete BCM rifle or Colt, Noveske, LMT, etc instead of building on some stripped Delton lowers, I would have taken less of a hit, or no hit, when I sold parts or entire guns I no longer wanted.

Now is the best time ever to enter the black rifle game because of prices. My recommendation is to buy a complete gun, get a quality optic, go ahead and buy 30 magazines (yes, seriously, PMags are $8 each right now) and several thousand rounds of ammo. Then shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. Then start modifying your guns. Before you know it, you'll be like this:
IMG_20180114_114752_01.jpg

So left to right: Colt Trooper, Anderson 7.5" pistol, Noveske N6 .308, BCM 14.5" Middy, Colt Trooper, Colt LE6920 (sold, now the LE6720 I have for sale sits there), PWS MK1 Mod2, BCM 16" Middy (has a 15" KMRA on it now), Aero 16" Middy Pencil, Built 9mm 16", Mk18 Mod 0 clone that is now finished. And of the 4 stripped lowers the MK18 is sitting on, I've sold 3.

The disease is STRONG with no cure... but more cowbell! Err, guns n gear.
 
@JRHorne what is the locker/cage? I like that a lot more than my hidden stack on thing.

I will mirror a lot of what is said, with the exception of the lower, for 2 reasons. I do recommend building your lower. 1, you already have it/it's coming. 2, you can start to see the system unfold and help for feild repairs. I had about 3 before I built my first lower and some things I didn't really get until I built it myself. Buy a complete upper and pin it onto your built lower.

As for upgrades, start badic and shoot it. And then more. Shoot others that may have upgrades you are interested in, triggers, FA, safeties, different stocks, etc. Without having a "mission" slated, it's hard to say what's going to work best.

It's a disease as they have said. I have 2 pretty big builds this year, and may peice together a third cheap build for the truck. I have plans for about 7 rifles total, and I keep thinking about more.
 
@Cameronswmp9 it's one from Sportsmans Guide and when it goes on sale is only about $130. It's good for ARs but not very tall and the mounting racks are kind of a pain because they are a bit thin. It may be hard to tell, but the Noveske .308 rail is so thick it doesn't sit in the groove well. For the price though, it's hard to beat. It's more intended for like a police unit where they have some 14.5" or 16" ARs that are all pretty standard and can just be lined up to grab.

I would agree with Cam on the lower, but building a lower requires a decent set of specialty tools that if you buy decent stuff, isn't cheap. Can you do it without the tools? Sure, I did. But you're more likely to scratch/mess up the receiver. If that doesn't matter, build away. Plus as cheap as complete lowers and rifles are right now, its almost harder to piece together a stripped lower for what you can get a quality complete one for.
 
I've only really needed the armorer's wrench, for the RE, as far as special tools. I had everything else, hammers, punches, pliers. A few of the pins just slide in as it is. I have found a razor blade is a great thing as well, for the rear takedown detent spring. I do that one and the front pivot oin in a clear plastic bag so if (when) I launch small parts they fall back on the bench.
 
I've helped with lowers on my recently passed bro--in-laws builds, but was disinterested and simply the "hold this" or "smack that" guy....in a way I kind've want to build one not as a tribute, but in tribute....the resale value I'm not concerned with as I swore off selling any more guns after one surprise tax season that forced me to basically empty my safe.....never again.

I think I'm going to follow the advice of buying a complete upper...not really a fan of the a2 front site, and there's some really nice Leupold tactical scopes that would look pretty good one there. and as far as the trigger goes, anything in the 3+ lb range i really dislike, hence my wanting something nice right off the bat....and that maybe a mental hurdle dating back to one of my first .357 DA only revolvers that i couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with.
 
one thing also about buying a complete upper - at least from PSA - They've been test fired FWIW.

As far as the A2 sight thing is concerned, they're usually cheaper than a freefloat upper, and you can always cut them down to fit under a FF rail of your choosing. Oh, and pointing a magnified scope at them
doesn't obscure the view from the scope in the least - something I had to see to believe.

a less-than-3lb trigger without any takeup or creep in the real world feels like a hair trigger on just about any firearm under 10lbs that isn't resting on a bench with sandbags all around it. I have my hunting rifle (Browning A-Bolt) adjusted to 4lbs due to having it discharge when dropped on me once when it was set quite a bit lower.
 
Last edited:
Allright....I've figured out that I want to build an AR pistol from this lower...What needs to be known as far as the legalities?
 
Allright....I've figured out that I want to build an AR pistol from this lower...What needs to be known as far as the legalities?
Stripped lower is sold as “other”. Perfectly legal to build into a pistol unless it’s been registered as a rifle.
 
Stripped lower is sold as “other”. Perfectly legal to build into a pistol unless it’s been registered as a rifle.
When you pick up a stripped upper from your FFL, they are classified neither pistol or rifle. They’re normally marked “other”. Check your paperwork from your FFL to be sure. As long as it says “other” you’re GTG.
FWIW...

All lowers are "other firearms". Doesn't have to be a stripped lower. You can buy a complete lower, remove the stock before attaching an upper...and you're still good to go.

It also doesn't matter how the 4473 is marked. An incorrect check box doesn't change the fact it's an "other firearm".
 
I'd personally go 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 twist for a barrel. They are the most versatile.

Triggers are a very personal thing. I prefer multi piece triggers (Geissele, BCM pnt, etc) to encapsulated triggers like the CMC. Less chance of debris getting caught in the works and locking something up. Check out someone's gun with a Geissele two stage trigger in it. (SSA or SSAE) they are top notch triggers and excellent for general purpose use.

I run CMMG extended takedown pins in my rifles. They are just a tiny touch longer than stock and make it super easy to get the rifle open with fingers only. They aren't large enough to get in the way during normal use. Less than 20 bucks.

I use Sig Sauer's M400 bolt catch lever because it has a tiny extra tab to make locking the rifle open easier. The upper portion is the same as mil-spec, so if you choose to add something like a Magpul BAD lever later, there's no issue.

The other mod I've done over a stock lower setup is to use the V Seven weapon systems short throw safety. My rifles will forever be semi auto only and I find the reduced travel to engage or disengage the safety agreeable. Again, competition setup so speed is a factor for me, but I also just didn't feel the need for a 90 degree safety in a semi only gun.

Try out the grips some folks have on their guns, too. You will likely find you have a distinct preference for one angle and feel over another. If you have large/long hands then standard angle is likely to be fine for you. If you have smaller hands, a more upright grip like the Magpul K2 might suit you better and allow easier reach to the trigger and mag release.

Where I put the most money into my rifles was the bolt carrier group and trigger. Bravo Company bcg in both guns and Geissele triggers.

As always, you will find in time that you have your own personal preferences for how you set up your AR.

Ruffy




Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
My $0.02, there's a lot of fine info from the tribe here.
PSA's fine
1:8-1:9 twist Wylde chamber, it safely shoots 5.56 & 223 better than 5.56.
Don't get the cheapest LPK, I've one that the take down pins stick & they need to be smacked. My last Rock River kit w/o trigger is nice, and only $14.
Can't stand a milspec trigger, purpose does define what to get, at a minimum go with the ALG. I have Geissele SSA-E & National Match Speed, KAC, and just got a CMC. I like them all.
I do like the adj gas blocks for odd calibers & suppressed, ie. 6.5 Grendel & 300BLK sub/sonic.
 
Back
Top Bottom