New Army Rifle Qualification

InertOrd13

InertOrd13

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Just posting to see if anyone has had a chance to shoot the Army's new rifle qualification detailed in the new marksmanship TM to see what they thought of it.

I got the chance to go to Benning and train a bit with the guy who pretty much wrote it and it is substantially better than the old qualification in my opinion.
 
I haven’t seen it yet.
 
InertOrd13 said:
Just posting to see if anyone has had a chance to shoot the Army's new rifle qualification detailed in the new marksmanship TM to see what they thought of it.

I got the chance to go to Benning and train a bit with the guy who pretty much wrote it and it is substantially better than the old qualification in my opinion.
Click to expand...
What's better about it?
 
I know, I just had this talk the other day with a newbie boot ( just made his SGT, 0331 at Lejeune) and he said they qual with ACOGs and only use irons when they get to SOI at Geiger.

And, yes, for all non-USMC; it's pronounced Le JOON, I never heard it pronounced Le JURN until last year by some retard.
 
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xtp308 said:
I know, I just had this talk the other day with a newbie boot ( just made his SGT, 0331 at Lejeune) and he said they qual with ACOGs and only use irons when they get to SOI at Geiger.
Click to expand...

Intersting, thanks!

They put an ACOG on a SAW too! As an 0331 that seems odd.

M60 with an optic just makes me cringe!

I am getting my first red dot on a handgun next week if the smith is finished. I wonder how long it will take me to find paper with the damn thing now?
 
Ben Jefferson said:
Intersting, thanks!

They put an ACOG on a SAW too! As an 0331 that seems odd.

M60 with an optic just makes me cringe!

I am getting my first red dot on a handgun next week if the smith is finished. I wonder how long it will take me to find paper with the damn thing now?
Click to expand...
LOL; I'm literally shopping for a RMR right now for a G17. I've never had one, and pooh-poohed them, but starting to get a little interested...

Sorry for the thread hijack, back to our regular broadcast schedule.
 
xtp308 said:
LOL; I'm literally shopping for a RMR right now for a G17. I've never had one, and pooh-poohed them, but starting to get a little interested...

Sorry for the thread hijack, back to our regular broadcast schedule.
Click to expand...

Getting old is a bitch isn't it!

I bought a Vortex Viper due to price and unbeatable warranty. Putting it on a Sig 229-1. Took a while to find a smith to cut the slide but I expect to get it back later this week or so.
 
Ben Jefferson said:
Intersting, thanks!

They put an ACOG on a SAW too! As an 0331 that seems odd.

M60 with an optic just makes me cringe!

I am getting my first red dot on a handgun next week if the smith is finished. I wonder how long it will take me to find paper with the damn thing now?
Click to expand...

The EOTech 552 was also made for the SAW, with the XR308 reticle. I do not like it.

I also recall quals without optics; then we got issued them, deployed with them, then every qual thereafter was with the ACOG or Aimpoint.
 
The Army, once again, is taking something that should remain relatively basic and making it complex, but not necessarily better.

TC 3-20.40 was published in NOV 2019...it is unclassified, approved for public release with unlimited distribution...it is 832 pages and far to big to hang a copy here; it can be accessed here:

https://armypubs.army.mil

or at

https://atiam.train.army.mil/catalog/dashboard
 
Long_Hunter said:
The Army, once again, is taking something that should remain relatively basic and making it complex, but not necessarily better.

TC 3-20.40 was published in NOV 2019...it is unclassified, approved for public release with unlimited distribution...it is 832 pages and far to big to hang a copy here; it can be accessed here:

https://armypubs.army.mil

or at

https://atiam.train.army.mil/catalog/dashboard
Click to expand...

the 40 for 40 rifle qual is and always will be a disaster. Load make ready, alibi fire and all that crap. The new qual is not even hard if you can operate a M4. but if you cannot, its going to hurt some feelings.
 
Ben Jefferson said:
Getting old is a bitch isn't it!

I bought a Vortex Viper due to price and unbeatable warranty. Putting it on a Sig 229-1. Took a while to find a smith to cut the slide but I expect to get it back later this week or so.
Click to expand...
I’ve got several Vipers, 3-4 I think, and you will need the warranty! Mine’s been back a couple times apiece. I finally bought a couple Trijicon’s and let it go. They just don’t hold zero for me.
 
It is more "combat" directed with you shooting one round standing then nine rounds prone unsupported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds prone supported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds kneeling supported, swap mags, and finally shoot ten rounds standing supported. All mags have to on your kit and can not be staged like in the old qual. Time doesn't stop between rounds it just starts and ends. The kneeling and standing supported use essentially a VTAC barrier. The idea is that your first round is returning fire and then move to various stages of cover.

The 25m paper target qual will no longer be accepted.

We used irons when I did it but I am sure most will use what ever flavor of optic their unit uses.
 
Hammer21b said:
I’ve got several Vipers, 3-4 I think, and you will need the warranty! Mine’s been back a couple times apiece. I finally bought a couple Trijicon’s and let it go. They just don’t hold zero for me.
Click to expand...

mine held zero on a 9mm (g17). I now have it on my desert eagle after getting RMR. Has held so far, maybe 15 rounds. Time will tell
 
InertOrd13 said:
It is more "combat" directed with you shooting one round standing then nine rounds prone unsupported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds prone supported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds kneeling supported, swap mags, and finally shoot ten rounds standing supported. All mags have to on your kit and can not be staged like in the old qual. Time doesn't stop between rounds it just starts and ends. The kneeling and standing supported use essentially a VTAC barrier. The idea is that your first round is returning fire and then move to various stages of cover.

The 25m paper target qual will no longer be accepted.

We used irons when I did it but I am sure most will use what ever flavor of optic their unit uses.
Click to expand...
New quals wont help that much if at all, more practice is what helps! The Army doesn’t do enough of it during the year! We need to get back to basics!
 
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Hammer21b said:
New quals wont help that much if at all, more practice is what helps! The Army doesn’t do enough of it during the year! We need to get back to basics!
Click to expand...
I have no place to quote the numbers but the guy I spoke with that wrote it said they found that most units only used like 40-50% of their allocated ammo and most of it is due to poor prior planning and just not scheduling ranges or enforcing people to go.

The new qual isn't very hard. I was assisting in teaching approximately 100 new attorneys in the Army how to do the new qual and we were able to get all but like two to pass the qual within six days. About 90 of them had never picked up a gun of any sorts before so it is doable. The biggest issues I saw were mag changes and how to clear jams because time doesn't stop so it is either clear the m4 and shoot or fail.
 
xtp308 said:
I know, I just had this talk the other day with a newbie boot ( just made his SGT, 0331 at Lejeune) and he said they qual with ACOGs and only use irons when they get to SOI at Geiger.

And, yes, for all non-USMC; it's pronounced Le JOON, I never heard it pronounced Le JURN until last year by some retard.
Click to expand...

All non-USMC and non-Southerners
 
InertOrd13 said:
It is more "combat" directed with you shooting one round standing then nine rounds prone unsupported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds prone supported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds kneeling supported, swap mags, and finally shoot ten rounds standing supported. All mags have to on your kit and can not be staged like in the old qual. Time doesn't stop between rounds it just starts and ends. The kneeling and standing supported use essentially a VTAC barrier. The idea is that your first round is returning fire and then move to various stages of cover.

The 25m paper target qual will no longer be accepted.

We used irons when I did it but I am sure most will use what ever flavor of optic their unit uses.
Click to expand...

We only ever used the 25m Alt C paper target for remedial training

I managed to...find...a bunch before I got out and I use them for pistol targets at 10yds now to practice for the long range pistol shots required at the match series I am presently shooting

I always thought the one shot per target was a horrible thing since all of BRM revolved around rifle qual for the most part. Teach everyone to fire one shot rather than engage until your target is out of the fight.
 
InertOrd13 said:
It is more "combat" directed with you shooting one round standing then nine rounds prone unsupported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds prone supported, swap mag, shoot ten rounds kneeling supported, swap mags, and finally shoot ten rounds standing supported. All mags have to on your kit and can not be staged like in the old qual. Time doesn't stop between rounds it just starts and ends. The kneeling and standing supported use essentially a VTAC barrier. The idea is that your first round is returning fire and then move to various stages of cover.

The 25m paper target qual will no longer be accepted.

We used irons when I did it but I am sure most will use what ever flavor of optic their unit uses.
Click to expand...

My E7 Air Guard daughter just did her final annual qual the other day. They did something similar to this except no barrier. At one stage they were issued a loaded magazine with dummy rounds mixed with the live ones to demonstrate the proper SPORTS sequence.
 
Hammer21b said:
New quals wont help that much if at all, more practice is what helps! The Army doesn’t do enough of it during the year! We need to get back to basics!
Click to expand...
Yes...

it is sad when of our “elite” get more trigger time on a range with the help of a vet...
 
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