New Bill Drill

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Called rhythm shooting. Obviously it works. You can work this out on your own. Perfect timing when the sights are back on.
 
fieldgrade said:
That trigger slap while posting his good time could be a whole discussion unto itself.
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Yes, dammit. Now I have to try slapping the trigger instead of squeezing it!

By the way, Rob Leatham says "...to shoot fast you're going to jerk the trigger. So learn how to jerk the trigger without moving the gun. It's that simple, it's just not easy to do."
 
Oh, and if I remember right, Ken Hackathorn said it took him about 35 years to learn how to pull the trigger straight back to the rear without disturbing the sights.
 
wvsig said:
The drill is no good he didn't move while shooting... LOL ;)
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It's good for old guys who want to count shots on the range like that other one with hackathorn a week or two ago. I am guessing the heavy guitar music makes it seem more useful to some.
 
James said:
It's good for old guys who want to count shots on the range like that other one with hackathorn a week or two ago. I am guessing the heavy guitar music makes it seem more useful to some.
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Come shoot a match with us old guys and see how you do.
 
fieldgrade said:
Come shoot a match with us old guys and see how you do.
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I am sure I'll do fine but that is beside the point.

Wvsigs witty comment goes back to a point John Travis made about self defense training in the other thread. So while all of these bill/Ken drills might have some usefulness when it comes to marksmanship, John Travis's point about movement is still spot on.
 
James said:
I am sure I'll do fine but that is beside the point.

Wvsigs witty comment goes back to a point John Travis made about self defense training in the other thread. So while all of these bill/Ken drills might have some usefulness when it comes to marksmanship, John Travis's point about movement is still spot on.
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Both of the two most popular practical pistol sports (say that fast three times) I know of and participate in require plenty of movement, and you have to be PDQ to win.
But if you can't put rounds on target when you're standing still, you sure as hell can't while you're moving.

And @wvsig was with us at Hackathorn's class here earlier this year. We were moving.
 
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Yeah, so then you'd also agree then that while this drill is useful for someone content to stand in one spot and count rounds, adding some movement and possibly eliminating the counting might be better drills for games that require movement?
 
James said:
Yeah, so then you'd also agree then that while this drill is useful for someone content to stand in one spot and count rounds, adding some movement and possibly eliminating the counting might be better drills for games that require movement?
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You lost me at "Yeah".
 
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James said:
I actually lost you at "it's good for old guys"
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One thing I've observed about both you and tuner, is criticism of posted drills, but no alternate video contributions posted of what is better. If you have a vid of what is better, post it, like the OP did, who BTW is a Master class shooter.

*Edit- I have removed an offending picture of a fairly aggressive drill that was run with multiple shooters after shooting 2.5 days together. I guess you had to be there.
 
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fieldgrade said:
One thing I've observed about both you and tuner, is criticism of posted drills, but no alternate video contributions posted of what is better. If you have a vid of what is better, post it, like the OP did, who BTW is a Master class shooter.
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That pic doesnt do any one in the shooting sports or firearm training community any good. Half of the folks down range of the other half, all while handling presumed loaded firearms
 
Mike Overlay said:
That pic doesnt do any one in the shooting sports or firearm training community any good. Half of the folks down range of the other half, all while handling presumed loaded firearms
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Ken Hackathorn was just just out of the picture frame. He ran that drill after we had been shooting together 2.5 days.
I took the picture.
He might have a little Russian in him.
 
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fieldgrade said:
One thing I've observed about both you and tuner, is criticism of posted drills, but no alternate video contributions posted of what is better. If you have a vid of what is better, post it, like the OP did, who BTW is a Master class shooter.
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I said this drill was good/useful (twice) for some people after wvsig said it was "no good".

In the other drill video thread, I commented on the slide release method, not the drill. In that thread I think you argued that things weren't in the video when they were clearly in the video.

My observation is that you don't observe well.

While the drill is useful, I wouldn't find it more useful if bill posted it himself so I am not sure what the master shooter stuff has to do with anything.
 
James said:
I said this drill was good/useful (twice) for some people after wvsig said it was "no good".

In the other drill video thread, I commented on the slide release method, not the drill. In that thread I think you argued that things weren't in the video when they were clearly in the video.

My observation is that you don't observe well.

While the drill is useful, I wouldn't find it more useful if bill posted it himself so I am not sure what the master shooter stuff has to do with anything.
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I'm pretty sure @wvsig's comment was sarcasm after that debacle of the last training vid posted.
 
You can slap the trigger all day long and be accurate as long as you are gripping the piss out of the weapon.

Bill drills are very good at training you how to grip your gun with a grip pressure that returns the sights back to your original point of aim. This is useful as a stand alone drill because it develops muscle memory which will be retained no matter the situation but is especially important when shooting at speed and when moving.
 
fieldgrade said:
I'm pretty sure @wvsig's comment was sarcasm after that debacle of the last training vid posted.
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Of course it was. The point that is completely lost in most of the conversations about drills is that most people cannot hit the target 100% of the time at 7 to 15 yards. They lack the trigger control and basic muscle memory to do it. Yes lots of people on this board can do it but many can’t.

You have to start with a basic understanding and ability in basic marksmanship, walking. before you can run. IMHO if we are being honest the vast majority of gun owners don’t ever learn to walk. Any drill that helps you develop good fundamentals while giving you a bench mark to measure progress is a useful. I personally try to change up the drills I am doing so I don’t game the drill.

I see so many people running before they learn to walk. Movement is great. It is a skill that should be learned and practiced but if you cannot hit the target standing still then movement is putting the cart before the horse. If I can’t hit the target standing still what is movement going to do to my groups? How is movement going to help me develop the gun and trigger control needed to hit my target in a defensive or game situation? Sorry James you missed the point of my original post in this thread. Maybe you were moving too much to get the joke. LMAO

While I respect Tuners knowledge about 1911s and handguns in general these days he comes across as arrogant and dismissive. He no longer has conversations with people on the boards. He shows up, when asked or called upon, like Beetlejuice when his name is said three times, to correct everyone else and then disappears. He is always right. He is never wrong and can’t be bothered to consider an alternative point of view. I miss his conversations and discussions about 1911s and other topics but those days have passed. Now we are left with proclamations.

I agree with @fieldgrade about drill posts. They don’t need to become pissing matches. Use them or don’t. If you have a better drill post it. Be productive not just critical.
 
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And here we go again.

Good video. It should contain more running. It's just not high speed enough for me.

@James do you shoot IDPA? A lot of guys who shoot on the move, practice while standing still. You can still benefit from this type of shooting. Please stop shiting on every training video that pops up. Or for God sake post a video you like.
 
wvsig said:
Sorry James you missed the point of my original post in this thread.

I agree with @fieldgrade about drill posts. They don’t need to become pissing matches. Use them or don’t. If you have a better drill post it. Be productive not just critical.
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I know exactly what the point of your post in the thread was. If you don't want threads to turn into pissing matches, why do you bring the last pissing match into the new thread? (Rhetorical)

If you are going to take cheap shots at the guy in subsequent threads I can see why he would be dismissive of you.

fieldgrade said:
It's a shame that a drill can't be posted up here and taken for no more or no less than what it's worth. If you don't like it, don't shoot it.
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Maybe you need to persuade the rest of the kids in your clique to quit being sarcastic/petty. I can't help that responding to wvsigs sarcasm with sarcasm triggers you to such a degree. Nobody forced you to insert yourself.
 
This is ridiculous. Please no one poke at James next training video. This is as stupid and one sided as it gets.
 
Mightyox04 said:
This is ridiculous. Please no one poke at James next training video. This is as stupid and one sided as it gets.
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It's no more stupid or one sided than any of the other threads the 5 or 6 of you with apparent reading disabilities get involved in.
NKD said:
If someone says a bill drill isn’t good for practice: just ignore anything they say about shooting because they suck and don’t even know it.
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Wvsig said he was being sarcastic...no need to be so hard on him.
 
James said:
It's no more stupid or one sided than any of the other threads the 5 or 6 of you with apparent reading disabilities get involved in.

Wvsig said he was being sarcastic...no need to be so hard on him.
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Look at you going full a hole. I think most people on this forum view you as some type of mall ninja. If you know the original mall ninja, you know that's not a compliment.

You know more than bill and Ken, yeah right. Get bent. No one wants to hear your crap. I'll wait for your special needs teacher to read this to you.
 
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