New thoughts on training a newbie with a pistol.

KnotRight

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I have had about 10 people to the range in the last few months who really do not shoot but I felt it would be good for them to come over to our side of the fense.
I usually let them shoot a 22 pistol with a red dot at 10 yards.
They feel really good. That is part of my objective I wanted to accomplish. Next with the same gun and target step back about 5 yards with the same target and gun.
Still pretty good. Around this time I will take a strip of tape and split the target right down the center.
I will get some yummsssss. Then put a sticker on the left hand side of close to the tape as the kill target.

After a few shoots at 15+, those shoots are getting a lot more harder because it you hit the right hand side you just killed a family member and have to buy drinks or dinner.

Fell free to add anything that you might use.
 
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Based on this thread and what you've already said you need to stop "training" people until you have completed the BASIC pistol instructors course available through NRA. You're going about it all wrong..... please stop....
 
Completely disagree with B.B.

You are getting new shooters to the range and as long as you are teaching the safety fundamentals and providing a safe environment then keep it up. Taking some NRA courses is highly recommended, but by no means stop inviting people while you wait for that.

Just make sure you aren’t approaching the event like you are a “trainer” and just a friend that wants to show people the joys of shooting.

I’d wager a weeks pay that 99% of us here were exposed to the joys of the shooting sports by people who weren’t NRA certified trainers so relegating them to the only ones qualified is absolute rubbish.


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I start them out telling them they will hit a 10" plate at 50 yards within two shots with my MKIII 22lr, if they follow instructions, and don't shake much. I've had a couple that would give Michael J Fox a run for his money.
After basic instructions, visualizing the target through the dot sight, the slide's racked and they fire (surprise to them dry). Here's where they learn about trigger jerk. Load a live round and they usually hit it.
They only get a single round because it's common for them to spin around thrilled.
 
BB, you are looking at it not in the same way as I am. Most of these people have a fear of guns and the pistol that I am using is a Browning Buckmark or similar. I want them to walk away from the session feeling that a gun is something that you can enjoy shooting BUT just because they can hit a target at 10 yards means that they can hit one under pressure. Hell most of us have never been put under that pressure including myself.
The reason for the red dot is again, to get them comfortable shooting and hitting the target. Once they are comfortable with that, I will move the target back or go to iron sights. AGAIN, the purpose is to let a new shooter get comfortable to shoot a gun and would like to come back to the range.
 
Then put a sticker on the left hand side of close to the tape as the kill target.

After a few shoots at 15+, those ashoots are getting a lot more harder because it you hit the right hand side you just killed a family member and have to b y drinks or dinner.

THIS is exactly what I mean, do you really want to be teaching them to "KILL" on their first outing. The instructor course will teach you better. You may mean well but you're not doing the shooting sports any favor....
 
He is absolutely doing the shooting sports a favor by introducing shooting to new people. A sporting clay itself is a "kill" target for a bird, yet I bet you have no issue showing new shooters how to blast those out of the sky. Most of us shoot targets that are profiles of human beings on a regular basis. Many of us shot against these same profile targets during CCW qualification.

A less FUDD/NRAFanboi recommendation would be to make sure you are reading your new shooter. If they seem to be the type that would be bothered by shooting anthropomorphic targets then steer more towards bullseye targets.

There is nothing wrong with taking an NRA course to become a better teacher, in fact, I recommend it too. But don't give up what you are doing while you await a class. Asking questions here was a good step. There has been some good advice given. In my experience with new shooters it should be all about making the event enjoyable and safe and less about the techniques and technicalities. Once they get a taste for the fun and enjoyment behind it and decide its something they want to get more into, then the technical aspects can come out. If you bombard new shooters with too much technical stuff right off hand it can become overwhelming.
 
I wouldn't start a new shooter out on anything with optics. They should learn to use open sights first.

I must agree with this.

I have no problem with anyone bringing newbies to the sport as long as the fundamentals are taught correctly. I worked all day yesterday working with a group of sixty ladies at a "Women on Target" event. Some had shot pistols (my discipline) before but, I spent much time helping them un-learn bad habits taught to them by well meaning others.
 
I have no problem with anyone bringing newbies to the sport as long as the fundamentals are taught correctly. I worked all day yesterday working with a group of sixty ladies at a "Women on Target" event. Some had shot pistols (my discipline) before but, I spent much time helping them un-learn bad habits taught to them by well meaning others.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^THIS^^^^^

(underlining inserted by me)
 
Still looking at the OP to try to figure out where he wasn't teaching the fundamentals properly...other than possibly using iron sights first that is.
 
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If a new shooter is comfortable with the person teaching/explaining to them what is safe and what is not it puts their mine to ease (some) but it has not been fun yet. I have not had more than one newbie at the range at 1 time so all attention is on them. What makes it fun for them is there is no pressure from others looking over their shoulder and being able to hit a target that they were shooting at. Now if the red dot helps that is great. I have found it helps a lot.
What I do not want out of a session is that someone thinks that they can shoot the eyes out of a fly and get in trouble shooting the wrong person or a bystander behind the target.
This is NOT a self-defense course but an outing to enjoy what we do.

EXAMPLE: took my wife shooting about 2 weeks ago doing just what I have said and she enjoyed it. Yesterday we were suppose to go out in the boat but it was too windy and she said less go back to the range. This is how you get people to understand the ENJOYMENT of what we do.
 
Just a thought, if using a gun that takes a magazine (or holds more than one round) when teaching someone who has never shot how to shoot I never put (or allow them to put) more than 1 round in the magazine at a time.

Because no matter how many times you go over safety with a newbie the first reaction of many of them after firing a weapon for the first time is to turn toward everyone either in shock or to see if they did it right. And they do not have the discipline yet to keep their weapon pointed down range.

Better to get flagged with an empty gun than one that has a fresh round chambered and is ready to fire. That way you can correct the bad behavior without risking a bullet. Only after they have proven that they understand range discipline will I allow them more than 1 round at a time.
 
Yeah you had to help those ladies unlearn some bad mechanics but someone had to get them interested otherwise they would never have been out there.

I typically start with a 10/22, but I've had new shooters use an AR with optics at 25 yards. They are comfortable and they have a lot of fun. It's important to read the person, which should be easy since it's usually a friend.

I'm not training them. I'm not showing them how to defend themselves should that situation arise God forbid. I'm not teaching them precision shooting. The bonus is they are no longer afraid of black rifles. Bring as many people as you can to our side of the line.

And I agree with the 1 round at a time for the first few shots. Too much excitement.
 
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Just some casual "hey you wanna go shoot?" meet-up I'm hanging steel, haven't met a person that didn't like to make it PING yet. Then keeping them safe, advising on fundamentals, and letting them wear it out. If they catch on quick we might do some speed stuff, extended range, whatever most likely flat footed. If they asked about personal defense we'd talk about how it's far more than just shooting and move on from there.

Now if they approached me about wanting to get their CHP, that'd be different, we'd work on a B27 at some point for sure, cause that's probably what they'll test on, probably still lean more on recreational. If all they get from a session is hit this barn door at spitting distance to pass the test then they might not do much after, because it's not fun or challenging.

I'm good with putting a smaller aiming point on the target, in an anatomically correct location or not to increase the challenge but only as far as I know they can score a majority of hits, someone new to something is far more likely to take an "I can't" or "too hard" attitude and lose interest, if it's something they think you like or are good at, they may not tell you, they just won't come back.
 
If a new shooter is comfortable with the person teaching/explaining to them what is safe and what is not it puts their mine to ease (some) but it has not been fun yet. I have not had more than one newbie at the range at 1 time so all attention is on them. What makes it fun for them is there is no pressure from others looking over their shoulder and being able to hit a target that they were shooting at. Now if the red dot helps that is great. I have found it helps a lot.
What I do not want out of a session is that someone thinks that they can shoot the eyes out of a fly and get in trouble shooting the wrong person or a bystander behind the target.
This is NOT a self-defense course but an outing to enjoy what we do.

EXAMPLE: took my wife shooting about 2 weeks ago doing just what I have said and she enjoyed it. Yesterday we were suppose to go out in the boat but it was too windy and she said less go back to the range. This is how you get people to understand the ENJOYMENT of what we do.


As others have said, I have always had luck with reactive targets of some sort. Cutting holes in paper is fun, but seeing something "react" is cooler. as Beef said, the Ping of steel is great fun, as is something as simple as putting out Ritz crackers that shatter when shot, and immediately dissolve in the first rain storm. I have also used clay pigeons as they tend to break very well and provide some instant feedback.
 
When I take newbies to a first range trip I ignore anything beyond 1) safe gun handling, 2) range rules, 3) give them something to smile about, 4) marksmanship fundamentals, prioritized in that order.
Some people don't get past #3 and I'll put a shoot-n-see at 5 yards for them to blast at. Some show more interested and I'll help with fundamentals. No talk of tactics, self defense, problem solving, trauma, etc etc. It's all about staying safe, having fun and planting a seed.
 
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I have had about 10 people to the range in the last few months who really do not shoot but I felt it would be good for them to come over to our side of the fense.
I usually let them shoot a 22 pistol with a red dot at 10 yards.
They feel really good. That is part of my objective I wanted to accomplish. Next with the same gun and target step back about 5 yards with the same target and gun.
Still pretty good. Around this time I will take a strip of tape and split the target right down the center.
I will get some yummsssss. Then put a sticker on the left hand side of close to the tape as the kill target.

After a few shoots at 15+, those ashoots are getting a lot more harder because it you hit the right hand side you just killed a family member and have to b y drinks or dinner.

Fell free to add anything that you might use.

Nice of you to introduce new people to shooting.
 
When I hear people complain about training methods I think about this photo....

R0VgBzm.png


I can hear the guy at the end screaming at the useless idiots who try to hold the gun with two hands...
 
IMO, a .22 with a dot is a great place for newbs to start, because it is super fun for most.

People go to the range for the first time for many reasons. But if I am taking someone just because "they have never shot a gun and want to try it" the very last thing I would focus on is any kind of self defense/combat/tactical bs. I just want them to see the fun factor of shooting, and learn to do it safely. And nothing os funner for a beginner than a .22 with a red dot.

I've found two things that put people off/scare people: recoil and volume. The volume/blast is important, as guns are way louder than people expect them to be. It scares the crap out of them. This is why a can works great for newbs. But good ear protection is critical, and this often involves eye protection as well. Get the blast under control and you can then focus on properly running the gun.

Grip and stance is what makes people feel comfortable shooting. Once they know exactly where their hands go (and where there trigger finger lives) and their feet go, they start to get a feeling of safety and control. It's of paramount importance and should be the first thing learned after the safety rules and range rules. Nobody should ever leave a gun range with a teacup grip ever again, and nobody should be allowed to fire a shot until they are gripping the gun correctly.

Now, if someone actually wants to learn to shoot well, then I think they are going to need to learn how to shoot with irons of course, but shooting a .22 with a dot at the range a couple times is not going to hurt them in any way. Just my opinion and I am no expert!
 
Please don't take my criticism wrong, I'm all for taking newbies to the range and let them have some of the same fun I enjoy. But there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it and that's part of what the certification course teaches you. There's not even a reason to tell anyone that you're certified in pistol instruction, but please go about it in a manner that is conducive to further learning from other instructors.
 
Please don't take my criticism wrong, I'm all for taking newbies to the range and let them have some of the same fun I enjoy. But there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it and that's part of what the certification course teaches you. There's not even a reason to tell anyone that you're certified in pistol instruction, but please go about it in a manner that is conducive to further learning from other instructors.
I think it might help this discussion if you clarified what you see wrong with his methods. So wrong that you want him to stop until he goes through a course. I didn't see him say anything, other than using a red dot, that implies teaching bad fundamentals or unsafe methods. If you have a problem with the bad guy/good guy shooting part of it, that seems like its a lot smaller of an issue than is being made out of it. But it would certainly help you not to come off the wrong way by offering constructive criticism and not just "stop, you're ruining shooting forever and don't know what you're doing."
 
Yesterday I wanted to go out in the boat but it was too windy and my wife said lets go to the range. Only 2nd time at the range in 5 years and the last time was maybe 2 weeks ago. At that time she shot a S&W 22a with a red dot but had a problem with it jamming. This time was a Browning Buckmark with a red dot. Here are the results. If I used any other gun a couple weeks ago she would have just stayed home. Tried to get her to shoot the 6.5 CM @ 300 yards but she said no and we were fine.
 

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Please don't take my criticism wrong, I'm all for taking newbies to the range and let them have some of the same fun I enjoy. But there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it and that's part of what the certification course teaches you. There's not even a reason to tell anyone that you're certified in pistol instruction, but please go about it in a manner that is conducive to further learning from other instructors.

I hear what you are saying, but I have to say:
I have met several "NRA Certified pistol instructors" that are terrible shooters and even worse teachers.
Having this "credential" means next to nothing. It's an easy basic class anybody can do.

I am sure there are great NRA certified instructors out there, but it is not because they are NRA certified.
 
While I agree with the open sights for a noob, I don't have them on the fun gun.
MKIII Shhh - Copy.JPG

Just a thought, if using a gun that takes a magazine (or holds more than one round) when teaching someone who has never shot how to shoot I never put (or allow them to put) more than 1 round in the magazine at a time.
Because no matter how many times you go over safety with a newbie the first reaction of many of them after firing a weapon for the first time is to turn toward everyone either in shock or to see if they did it right.
Yup, echo.
 
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