Night Vision Experts - Helmet Mount Wisdom Needed (PVS14/BNVD)

Studentofthegun said:
Believe you’ll find that the way things look in a YouTube video and how they look in reality are sometimes different. That video above is, in my opinion, not representative because the WP tube doesn’t appear to be in focus in the first part of the video. Either that or it is a terrible tube. My little Echo spec tube blows that thing away in terms of clarity and it is far from top of the line.

When people put thermal scopes on a dovetail and use them on a helmet, the primary usage is a hands free scanner. Not for moving running around in the woods.

I believe if your plan is to get a really high end thermal and use it for navigation I think you will be disappointed.
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I noticed the WP tube was out of focus, too -- and I figured that was all it was. And, of course, one must take YT vids with a grain of salt -- which is why I wanted to post the video and discuss it with someone who actually owned both NV and thermal. However, you sort of moved the goalposts on the discussion from "seeing where you are going in the dark" (per your remark in post #31, to which I initially responded) ... to "running around in the woods" (per your question in post #33).

I point this out because I think we can both agree that when it comes to any form of digital processing that allows us to see at night, the processing delay involved in today's technologies means there's an ocean of difference between a casual walk where you simply wants to "[see] where you are going in the dark" ... versus "running around in the woods". Something usable for scanning ... is also likely reasonably usable for a casual walk and "seeing where you are going in the dark" ... but probably not terribly usable for any sort of running in the dark; I would fully expect blurry images while running from anything digitally processed. This is why your changing of the position of the goalposts seems pretty relevant ... and why I am pointing it out. (I'm not trying to be a d-bag or anything.)

As for me getting thermal -- I'm most likely going to settle for the $600ish dollar hand-held FLIR TK Scout, as my thermal needs are largely limited to game retrieval after last light in the late season of white tail hunting season. The device would make blood trail tracking easier ... as well as spotting a downed deer easier in scenarios where I might miss one in the dark while tracking, as I almost did, this year after dropping the biggest 10 pointer of my life in December. It might even allow for the spotting of deer bedded down in cut-outs I hunt prior to taking a shot while it's still daylight -- which would be useful, too, as it would give me some idea of which portions of the cut-outs to keep an eye on.

I've not done any solid research on the device, its range, etc., yet. That said, I have many months before the upcoming hunting season in which to contemplate it. I am quite open to options -- but I know I do NOT want anything gun or helmet mounted -- so it needs to be small and ideally light, since size and weight count when I've got to trek to and from a sit.


Studentofthegun said:
l

Yeah buddy, I know exactly how you feel. Man do I ever.

Luckily the long wait times for NFA items have sorta tempered me to wait for NV.

This is a huge purchase and decisions won’t be made without a lot of consideration. Sometimes it is helpful to have some back and forth on this topic because it helps think critically about the YouTube sale pitches. Or the complete lack of sales pitches. The JRH site looks like it was built in 1997. All the data is a giant wall of text. But he doesn’t really define the terms. You’ve got to search the web to figure out what FOM, halo, and all sorts of other metrics means.

I watched at least 50 videos and read all the relevant threads on Arfcom about NV and thermal. But it didn’t click until someone handed me a PVS-14. The internet said you would be okay without a counterweight on your helmet for a single tube. The second I had it in my hand I knew that wasn’t true. The issue with my glasses didn’t come up until I actually mounted the thing on my head. Thus I very grudgingly bought the G22 mount.

It is a shame more companies don’t have demo sessions. You’ve got to track someone down that owns this stuff to really understand it. For example, you can look at pics all day regarding WP vs GP. But despite being absolutely sure I had to have WP...the first time I looked through a green tube I knew I’d be happy with either one. It also showed me that duals are simply better than a monocle.

If we are going to spend as much on this crap as a good used car (and I already have) might as well hash it all out now. :)
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100% correct on NFA items tempering one into becoming accustomed to waiting -- and on the back/forth being beneficial. I've had the benefit of being able to look through green phosphor (monocular) tubes. I've also had input from a former operator who used both who said if I can afford WP, he felt it was worth the extra money for the contrast improvement and reduced eye strain.

While I've not been able to look through googles, it is my understanding (from reading and inputs from operator friend) they are absolutely better in some ways than monaculars: they avoid the tension headache associated with the unaided eye's pupil being constricted while the aided eye's pupil is dilated ... as well as the dizziness some people experience; usage time is basically limited only by battery life; and one can drive with them with a bit of practice -- not quickly, mind you. (With vehicle-mounted IR floods, I'm told this is even better/easier.)

However, because both eyes are aided, one loses one's night adapted peripheral vision and situation awareness. Also, one's lugging a lot of weight up there ... and that's weight that ultimately has to be carried and moved by the neck. So, monocular do have a few benefits. I started out wanting to stay under 3k for a single tube and found I could get very high quality green phosphor tubes for ~2.6k ... but if I spent "just a little more", I could step up to white phosphor ... and then if I spent "just a little more" I could step up to unfilmed white phosphor. Needless to say, "just a little more" adds up fast, when you do it over and over ... to the tune of that 3k budget moving to 4k quickly.

I am not willing to move the budget any higher; another 1-2k is simply out of reach. But if I could find decent dual tube goggles around 4-4.5k, I'd give that a hard, hard look and think about "just a little bit more" perhaps one more time. I have yet to see that, though -- from a vendor I trust.
 
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surrealone said:
I noticed the WP tube was out of focus, too -- and I figured that was all it was. And, of course, one must take YT vids with a grain of salt -- which is why I wanted to post the video and discuss it with someone who actually owned both NV and thermal. However, you sort of moved the goalposts on the discussion from "seeing where you are going in the dark" (per your remark in post #31, to which I initially responded) ... to "running around in the woods" (per your question in post #33).

I point this out because I think we can both agree that when it comes to any form of digital processing that allows us to see at night, the processing delay involved in today's technologies means there's an ocean of difference between a casual walk where you simply wants to "[see] where you are going in the dark" ... versus "running around in the woods". Something usable for scanning ... is also likely reasonably usable for a casual walk and "seeing where you are going in the dark" ... but probably not terribly usable for any sort of running in the dark; I would fully expect blurry images while running from anything digitally processed. This is why your changing of the position of the goalposts seems pretty relevant ... and why I am pointing it out. (I'm not trying to be a d-bag or anything.)

As for me getting thermal -- I'm most likely going to settle for the $600ish dollar hand-held FLIR TK Scout, as my thermal needs are largely limited to game retrieval after last light in the late season of white tail hunting season. The device would make blood trail tracking easier ... as well as spotting a downed deer easier in scenarios where I might miss one in the dark while tracking, as I almost did, this year after dropping the biggest 10 pointer of my life in December. It might even allow for the spotting of deer bedded down in cut-outs I hunt prior to taking a shot while it's still daylight -- which would be useful, too, as it would give me some idea of which portions of the cut-outs to keep an eye on.

I've not done any solid research on the device, its range, etc., yet. That said, I have many months before the upcoming hunting season in which to contemplate it. I am quite open to options -- but I know I do NOT want anything gun or helmet mounted -- so it needs to be small and ideally light, since size and weight count when I've got to trek to and from a sit.



100% correct on NFA items tempering one into becoming accustomed to waiting -- and on the back/forth being beneficial. I've had the benefit of being able to look through green phosphor (monocular) tubes. I've also had input from a former operator who used both who said if I can afford WP, he felt it was worth the extra money for the contrast improvement and reduced eye strain.

While I've not been able to look through googles, it is my understanding (from reading and inputs from operator friend) they are absolutely better in some ways than monaculars: they avoid the tension headache associated with the unaided eye's pupil being constricted while the aided eye's pupil is dilated ... as well as the dizziness some people experience; usage time is basically limited only by battery life; and one can drive with them with a bit of practice -- not quickly, mind you. (With vehicle-mounted IR floods, I'm told this is even better/easier.)

However, because both eyes are aided, one loses one's night adapted peripheral vision and situation awareness. Also, one's lugging a lot of weight up there ... and that's weight that ultimately has to be carried and moved by the neck. So, monocular do have a few benefits. I started out wanting to stay under 3k for a single tube and found I could get very high quality green phosphor tubes for ~2.6k ... but if I spent "just a little more", I could step up to white phosphor ... and then if I spent "just a little more" I could step up to unfilmed white phosphor. Needless to say, "just a little more" adds up fast, when you do it over and over ... to the tune of that 3k budget moving to 4k quickly.

I am not willing to move the budget any higher; another 1-2k is simply out of reach. But if I could find decent dual tube goggles around 4-4.5k, I'd give that a hard, hard look and think about "just a little bit more" perhaps one more time. I have yet to see that, though -- from a vendor I trust.
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I didn’t move any goalposts. If you believe you can wander up to a deer stand (I have never met anyone who refers to such things as a “sit”) and have zero possibility of needing to move quickly, more power to you. One more time: put on a thermal and move around. Doesn’t matter if you are running or walking. It is less than ideal for the reasons I already mentioned.

I already mentioned the price difference between WP / filmed and unfilmed so I find it strange that you would essentially repeat what I said. We have already covered that.

Your issue with the weight difference between a monocle and dual tubes is a non issue. Consider for a moment that one could be running a ballistic helmet. A bump helmet with duals and a counterweight is much lighter than a ballistic helmet with a monocle. So it depends on what your use case is. Duals are demonstrably better. Especially when you can roll one out of the way. Ruggedized ones don’t do that but you can flip them up.
Not everything your operator friend says is the gospel. That’s not a knock against them whatsoever. They have a lot of experience but they look at equipment a lot differently than us. As they should. We have different uses. If I want to move around in the dark at anything over a glacial pace, I want duals. They are better in that role. Not everything useful for SHTF is exactly as useful for pig hunting in the dark. Or vice versa.

Weapon mounted thermal scopes are awesome.

If you ever intend to take a shot at something in the dark, I don’t see how you will accomplish that with just a thermal monocle. This is the next biggest issue with using a thermal monocle for navigating the woods.
 
surrealone said:
1. (I'm not trying to be a d-bag or anything.)

2. I am not willing to move the budget any higher; another 1-2k is simply out of reach. But if I could find decent dual tube goggles around 4-4.5k, I'd give that a hard, hard look and think about "just a little bit more" perhaps one more time. I have yet to see that, though -- from a vendor I trust.
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1. If there is one thing I’ve learned as part of my journey as a student of the gun, it’s that learning takes precedence over trying to win an argument. My goal is to share information with like minded folks so that it might help them.


2. I posted a link to Kosher Surplus that has duals in the range you were talking about. The ship has sailed for low prices at this point on the fancy stuff.
TNVC is great but there are several other very trustworthy vendors out there. Kosher is one of them. Benny is a good guy and has always been available to talk on the phone and answer questions.
 
Studentofthegun said:
If you believe you can wander up to a deer stand (I have never met anyone who refers to such things as a “sit”) and have zero possibility of needing to move quickly, more power to you.

<snip>.

If you ever intend to take a shot at something in the dark, I don’t see how you will accomplish that with just a thermal monocle. This is the next biggest issue with using a thermal monocle for navigating the woods.
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I move to my stands and locations at a glacial pace in the dark when the wind is in my favour -- planting every step as deliberately as possible while trying to make as a little noise as possible. (Basically, I creep into the woods.) When I snap a branch or crunch leaves (as invariably happens), I stop, wait, and listen -- like any deer might do -- and then eventually move again a few minutes later. So, I'm 100% positive I don't need to move quickly during this, as in all my life I've never needed to do so. And I refer to it as moving to/from a 'sit' because that's what one tends to do in a deer stand: 'sit!' My uncle and father call it this, too, so it's what I was raised with.

Thus, I don't see thermal as a navigation tool for myself -- especially since I can't afford the $8k+ clarity of the IR Patrol. Also, I don't hunt coyotes or hogs, so my use case for thermal is just for tracking. I will, however, have an IR illuminator/designator for use with a tube should I want to take a shot at something in the dark using a "plain jane" imagine intensification tube.


Studentofthegun said:
2. I posted a link to Kosher Surplus that has duals in the range you were talking about. The ship has sailed for low prices at this point on the fancy stuff.
TNVC is great but there are several other very trustworthy vendors out there. Kosher is one of them. Benny is a good guy and has always been available to talk on the phone and answer questions.
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This kind of recommendation (as opposed to just tossing out a link) is worth its weight in gold, as trust has a transitive propery. I had looked at the dual tube Goggles on Kosher's site and liked what I saw, but was concerned about the lack of manual gain on the pairs I saw ... and I've been chewing on that problem.

With what little time I've had under the monaculars of others, I've noted I've had to dial the gain down fairly often -- at least in the locations we were in. For night vision devices without manual gains, we can always add light with illuminators, but we can't ever take it away -- and that can be a problem when things are too bright. The solution for googles with no manual gain would seem to be a pair of Tarsier Eclipse units installed -- providing the rough equivalent via a controllable iris. It'll add cost, but not one I'd need to eat right away. As another benefit, this same device can also be used to see things up close without changing focus -- simply by adjusting the amount of light the tube gets.

Note:
I had intended on using a Phokus Hoplite for the up-close focus problem without actually refocusing a PVS-14 , as it's lighter and faster to use than a Tarsier Eclipse-- and lacks any concern about accidentally adjusting focus of the unit as with the Eclipse. However, I don't think it will serve the need I suspect I might have on a set of dual tube goggles with no manual gain. Only time behind such a pair would tell for sure, though.

Do you happen to have a link to where those $20 WP-like filters can be had from, too? (Or did you post it and I missed it? I recall seeing only a screenshot from a phone.)
 
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Using a thermal monocle to move around is not the way I would go. I have no idea why you insist that doing so would work out. Especially assuming you have no personal experience doing so and can’t afford it anyway. I’m left to conclude that you are simply trying to argue for the sake of argument.

That is just weird. I don’t get it. Not sure it makes sense to answer your questions or discuss anything further.

To anyone else: happy to help any way I can, even though I don’t have all the answers. If you want to arrange to see my gear and look through it let me know.
 
I'm not sure how you took away that I insisted use of a thermal monacular to move around would work out; I don't feel I've done that, at all. Plainly put, I stated I had no intention to use one to move about (i.e. for me it's just for tracking a kill) ... and I have merely postulated that something as clear as the IR Patrol M300W might be usable -- but as noted, I have never used one, so I don't know. As you've never used one, you don't either, we're both left to speculate or wonder, in that regard.

That said, you've used something ... but whether it's fairly representative of all thermal devices on the market today ... is probably not something either of us can state.

No point in providing a link to the $20 WP filters? I think there'd be value to all who read this thread. I know I'd find that useful in the event that I elect to purchase dual tube goggles based on the inputs you've provided, but for some reason you seem a bit ... surly. I'll let it pass for whatever it is ... and hope you get over whatever 'I know thermal because I have it and you don't' kick so we can get back to actual useful and engaging nightvision discussion that doesn't deal with thermal, as this discussion has impacted both thinking and decisions on my end in a very positive way -- and I'm appreciative of that.
 
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If you insist on implying I don’t know what I’m talking about, why would I continue to discuss it with you? That would be a waste of my time and yours.

This is why I don’t post as much as I used to. You try to give information and inevitably someone with little else then internet speculation comes along and want to argue.

I spent $15k on night vision and accessories over the past few months. I’ve got enough disposable income to get more or less what I want. Which means if someone is starting out, they would be able to see my stuff in person and make a decision.

I’m at the age where I don’t talk to hear the sound of my own voice.

You are apparently the expert so I hereby dub thee the forum expert on night vision. Everyone can come to you if they have questions.

I was gonna make a post about how to shop for a tube. What the difference between blems and spots was. What zone 1,2 and three are. Trustworthy vendors. What illuminators/lasers and so forth are functional and which ones don’t hold zero because the mount sucks. Nevermind all that.

Best of luck.
 
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I finally decided and went with a dovetail AKA2 mount for $230ish all in. No idea how it’ll work since I’m still a couple months out from receiving my 14. Very solid lockup on the bump helmet and in all three positions. Angle, up/down and in/out adjustments. We’ll see...


8066702D-5A8D-4E76-80D9-3097BCDD5EE5.jpegE57A9891-3AEA-4DDB-98CD-59AA267A5E30.jpeg202DBDFD-3D28-47B4-BD64-0B9E1DB6BD09.jpeg
 
Tim said:
link?
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Well, it’s slightly more complicated than that : )

I bought the AKA2 as a package (first link below) with a bayonet socket and universal shroud for $266, shipped.

I bought a dovetail socket from TNVC (second link) for $62.

I then sold the shroud ($55) and bayonet socket ($45) on eBay.

AKA2 Mount

Dovetail Socket
 
Excellent price point, and I love the approach! I'm very interested to hear if it meets/exceeds your expectations and am hopeful that it does. (There's nothing worse than doing homework, plunking down the money, performing the implementation ... and being disappointed, because you're left feeling a little bit like Wile E. Coyote and it's back to the drawing board.)
 
surrealone said:
I just went through this selection dilemma. I settled on a Wilcox L4 G24 mount and a Wilcox PVS-14 transfer arm. My rationale was as follows:
  • The G24 has breakaway functionality that the G11 lacks. While costing more, this may be the difference between breaking my neck or not, as the NVG will be used in heavy brush, while climbing, etc.
  • The G24's button engagement moves the bump helmet around on my head less than the force-to-overcome of the G11. This allows me to wear the bump helmet slightly less tightly, which I find aids in comfort.
  • The G24 positions the NVG closer to the helmet when the NVG is in the stowed position than the G11 does -- making the helmet plus NVG more compact with the G24 when the NVG is stowed using the G24.
  • Switching eyes with the G24 and Wilcox transfer arm is as quick as pushing a button and moving the NVG to the new eye (assuming one has tweaked, tuned, and refined positioning of the PVS-14 at the primary eye to support rapid switches to the secondary); with the G11 and standard J-arm a tension knob must be loosened and tightened before such a switch (assuming the same tweakage/tuning/refinement).
  • The lockup on the dovetail interface of the Wilcox transfer arm into the G24 is super stable and instantaneous, while the standard J-arm horn's lockup in the G11 is only as solid as the G24's dovetail mount IF additional steps are taken to make it so using the G11's mechanical tension adjustment capability which relies on use of a (supplied) allen key to push a worm gear lever forward under the standard J-Arm’s horn, thereby forcing the J-Arm upwards into a cradle to reduce or eliminate any wobble that simply isn't present with the dovetail mount of the G24 and the Wilcox transfer arm.

Ultimately, I found the G24 and Wilcox transfer arm combination to be feature-rich enough to justify spending $670 (with tax and shipping) on the pair. The breakaway functionality and the life-saving potential (or potential to avoid being crippled), alone, was worth the added cost to me for the G24 -- never mind the rest of the benefits. ($300ish extra dollars to help avoid being paralyzed or dying? Sign me up! The military might not pay it for our boys/men in the field, which irritates me, but I'll darn sure pay it for myself.) This also means if I ever want to run duals, I've already got the investment in a dovetail mount with which to do it -- and it's just a matter of obtaining a bridge and a second PVS-14. (I can't see that in my future because that's a lot of unnecessary weight, but the option is there should I want it.)

That was my thinking ... and why I bought what I bought. Your needs, thinking, and budget/wallet may be different, of course, but I figured I'd share since you asked.
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I just wanted to say that this is solid logic and definitely convinced me to at least strongly consider a Wilcox L4 G24 mount. You made that thing sound truly awesome.
 
Studentofthegun said:
One other thing. There's a fellow who makes blue and white filters for the PVS-14s that are green phosphor. The blue makes it look like a white phosphor tube. It's rather amazing. But the white one is just incredible. There's very little light lost and the contrast is really something.
Here is a pic of the white filter on a green phosphor tube. They are about $20 shipped.

View attachment 295613
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Holy crap that is amazing!!
 
I edited the thread title because:

I changed my order today for a pair of these, mainly based on discussion in this thread (and others on here). I didn’t lose my place in the queue since I was modifying an existing order : ) Still looking at April before I will have ‘em.

6E060DA6-1D1A-4615-8AB4-9BBEDF8A93C2.jpeg
 
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steelciocc said:
I edited the thread title because:

I changed my order today for a pair of these, mainly based on discussion in this thread (and others on here). I didn’t lose my place in the queue since I was modifying an existing order : ) Still looking at April before I will have ‘em.

View attachment 307455
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can I ask what they set you back?
 
steelciocc said:
I edited the thread title because:

I changed my order today for a pair of these, mainly based on discussion in this thread (and others on here). I didn’t lose my place in the queue since I was modifying an existing order : ) Still looking at April before I will have ‘em.

View attachment 307455
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ooooohh nice!

What kinda tubes and where did you get them?
 
Twice the price of the PVS14 I had on order, Tim. I knew I’d end up wishing I’d just got binos and then likely want to get another PVS14 to pair with the first one. After paying for a bridge and whatever else would be required, plus the weight, I just decided to bite the bullet.

These are entry level, “budget” binos. WP XLS tubes from NVD. I have a small “in” with NVD and am rolling the dice hoping for a much better than minimum spec set of tubes 🤞
 
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steelciocc said:
Twice the price of the PVS14 I had on order. I knew I’d end up wishing I’d just got binos and then likely want to get another PVS14 to pair with the first one. After paying for a bridge and whatever else would be required, plus the weight, I just decided to bite the bullet.
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For what it’s worth, in my opinion, you make the right move.

Read a book by Clay Martin the other day. Don’t know what your use case will be, however, I found this b from the book interesting.

“ I am generally not a fan of technology, but one piece is an absolute must if you possibly can. And it isn’t cheap. Night vision aka see in the dark goggles. Nothing in the last 50 years has changed warfare as much as NVGs. And you absolutely cannot fight people that have them, if you don’t, with the lights out. Even hadj knew this and started importing cheap Russian and Iranian devices as fast as they could. Because we were absolutely massacring them before they found a countermeasure. A set of goggles with a laser is more important than 20 extra guns or 50 pallets of ammo. If push actually comes to shove, this is just about the most important thing you can have on hand. The best available option to most of us is a PVS-14, with a helmet, and a decent laser. Like a Steiner D-Bal or some equivalent.”

Agree there is no substitute for it. Might as well get duals if you can swing it.
 
steelciocc said:
Twice the price of the PVS14 I had on order, Tim. I knew I’d end up wishing I’d just got binos and then likely want to get another PVS14 to pair with the first one. After paying for a bridge and whatever else would be required, plus the weight, I just decided to bite the bullet.

These are entry level, “budget” binos. WP XLS tubes from NVD. I have a small “in” with NVD and am rolling the dice hoping for a much better than minimum spec set of tubes 🤞
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Nice to keep your place in queue - April isn't bad, at all. Is that the single gain unit, here: BNVD-SG-XLS Night Vision Binocular - Single Gain - Night Vision Devices (nvdevices.com) ? If so, those are 1344 FOM -- and 64lp/mm min res ... meaning 21 SNR at the 64lp/mm min res. I will say it always bugs me when sellers don't also state a SNR min, because it means that 1344 FOM tube with a 68lp/mm res could be only 19.76 SNR.

That said, if I had an 'in' like that I might be prone to ordering from NVD, too. They have nice standard kit and a solid warranty. Heck, I'm somewhat jealous of your 'in' and envious of your relative short wait for binos given your switch to them!
 
surrealone said:
Nice to keep your place in queue - April isn't bad, at all. Is that the single gain unit, here: BNVD-SG-XLS Night Vision Binocular - Single Gain - Night Vision Devices (nvdevices.com) ? If so, those are 1344 FOM -- and 64lp/mm min res ... meaning 21 SNR at the 64lp/mm min res. I will say it always bugs me when sellers don't also state a SNR min, because it means that 1344 FOM tube with a 68lp/mm res could be only 19.76 SNR.

That said, if I had an 'in' like that I might be prone to ordering from NVD, too. They have nice standard kit and a solid warranty. Heck, I'm somewhat jealous of your 'in' and envious of your relative short wait for binos given your switch to them!
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Yes, those are the binos. From everything I’ve read almost every one of these has been delivered well above the minimum specs, I’m just praying that mine will be one of those over achievers : ) My “in” is just a guy I was in a unit with long ago who works there. Best case is that he puts in a good word for me when it comes time to select the tubes to build my unit. Worst case is I get a minimum spec set that may (or may not) satisfy me. NVD does do a military discount.

Remember, my last intimacy with night vision was with PVS7s on my face. I’m sure even a minimum spec unit will be impressive balanced against my memories. The big question is, will they be worth the money? I’m willing to take my chances based on the on-line reputation of the XLS tubes.

I probably wouldn’t have done the switch if I’d have gone to the end of the line but since I was modifying an existing order my early January order date was retained. Only time will tell...
 
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Buy once, cry once. Those binos should be around 5-6oz less weight cantilevered off the front of your head when compared with dual PVS-14's, a bridge mount, and twin batteries for a dual setup. Let's hope your brother in arms hooks you up. :)
 
Since ARFCOM has had some issues in the wake of its former registrar (GoDaddy) pulling the plug on them, rather than cross-link to them, I downloaded the following image from ARFCOM as a reference for a potential (easy, inexpensive) solution to adding interpupillary distance stops to articulating binos that lack them ... so that the image is local, here. Note the stops are the zip ties positioned on the rearward side of each unit/tube. (The others appear to simply be holders for the forward side of the bikini cover on each unit/tube... hence the X's on them.)

DTNVG_Zip_Tie_Mod_jpg-1228621.jpg
Original Source: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediafiles/20771/DTNVG_Zip_Tie_Mod_jpg-1228621.JPG
 
Hi all. I'm looking for pointers on best night vision setup for the money. A low budget setup. I know, I know... those don't go together. My goal is simply to have an advantage in a SHTF situation over anyone that has NO night vision at all. I have no use for it other than that. So just a very basic setup is what I'm after. I've considered a PVS-7 or PVS-14. But the technical side of those are a big turn off to me. And of course, the cost on them seems ridiculous. I just saw the Aurora cameras a month or so ago, and just ordered one of their Pro models. Also just ordered the bump helmet and a dove tail mount for it. I already had the AKA2 portion of the mount. I do still need to decide which bridge to get.

I am now at a point that I'm unsure what else I need. Can you shoot reasonably OK using the NV and just an IR laser for sighting? Do I need thermal mounted on the gun? I had an L3 thermal that I bought 5-6 years ago, but when I pulled it out to try it last week, it was DOA. And obviously, out of warranty. A real bummer. I'll at least get a handheld thermal for scanning purposes. Or mounted offset on the gun, depending on weight. Just a basic one is all I would need for that. But I'm unsure of shooting with the Aurora vs needing a dedicated rifle mounted thermal.

The other thing that is confusing to me is the IR laser/illuminator. Everyone seems to talk about the red glow from the IR and you shouldn't use IR unless you have to. Is there not a way to eliminate that red glow so that you can use IR whenever you want it on? Again, I'm talking a situation where no one other than me has NV. Or is the red glow actually so insignificant that I shouldn't worry about it? If it can only be seen within 5 yards or so, it is of no concern to me. I bought the FandyFire IR that everyone recommends. I'll also get a gun mounted IR laser. Not sure which one yet, but assume a powerful one. Is the red glow an issue? If yes, is there a fix?

I want something that will work. I would be moving very little with it. None, unless I had to. But I do need to be able to be accurate with shots out to 200 yards or so. And not produce a light (red glow) for someone to shoot at.
 
JBB said:
I'll also get a gun mounted IR laser. Not sure which one yet, but assume a powerful one.
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I have the Perst 4 (https://ivantactical.com/shop/weapo...tco-perst-4-dual-visible-ir-laser-designator/) that does an excellent job with the Aurora. It is high quality gear for a relative budget.

I'd be open to selling this one in particular as my needs are moving toward more daytime use for the laser. I'd like to pick up the same unit, but with a green laser instead of red. Note that the visible laser color does not impact the IR/NV laser in any way.
 
Studentofthegun said:
One more time: put on a thermal and move around. Doesn’t matter if you are running or walking. It is less than ideal for the reasons I already mentioned.
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Ran into a guy tonight who posted pics of his helmet-mounted Flir Breach on a private FB group consisting of military, law enforcement, hunter, and prepper type personnel who are interested in such things. Here's the dialogue (the Flir owner's name is redacted using red. My name is redacted using yellow.)

Sometimes it's the little confirmations that organically occur in life that just make my day.

thermal.png

P.S. As the owner of a Jerry-C that I imported, I can also attest to the fact that it keeps up just fine while walking -- by itself using the eyepiece, as well as when it's superimposing thermal onto the i2 landscape of my nods. I haven't tried running with it, but I'll try to remember to do so.
 
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surrealone said:
Ran into a guy tonight who posted pics of his helmet-mounted Flir Breach on a private FB group consisting of military, law enforcement, hunter, and prepper type personnel who are interested in such things. Here's the dialogue (the Flir owner's name is redacted using red. My name is redacted using yellow.)

Sometimes it's the little confirmations that organically occur in life that just make my day.

View attachment 603230

P.S. As the owner of a Jerry-C that I imported, I can also attest to the fact that it keeps up just fine while walking -- by itself using the eyepiece, as well as when it's superimposing thermal onto the i2 landscape of my nods. I haven't tried running with it, but I'll try to remember to do so.
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Something I said over two years ago affected you that much eh?

That’s excellent. Now I can rely on you to keep up with the latest and greatest in an attempt to prove me wrong. And now I don’t have to do it.

Thermal on nods, yes, makes sense. The operative part there is “nods” not thermal by itself.

What I said was that it was less than ideal. But, I don’t know what model he’s talking about. Is it new? Is running around in the woods the same as clearing a house? Is walking around in the woods the same as clearing a house. I honestly don’t know.

Assuming there is thermal I can get my hands on that would let me use it instead of a PVS-14, that’s awesome! I’d like to know which one it is assuming FLIR sells to us lowly civilians anymore. Did they stop doing that or am I misremembering?

Is there an obtainable monocle out now that would suffice for running around in the woods? Is that what all the high speed low drag have switched to?

If so, I gotta save up my money.

You’re bound and determined to cost me money aint you? 😅

Turnabout is fair play I guess since I am partly responsible for you getting duals.

PS: If you really want to prove me wrong (please and thank you) run out there and buy something and then run around in the woods and test it for us. I don’t trust some rando on Facebook but I would most definitely trust the results of your experiment.
 
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