Opinions on ruger blackhawks

Sneakymedic

Sneakymedic

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Looking at getting a matching pair in. 357 for cowboy action. They aren't the most mainstream in cowboy action, but wondered about personal opinion between the BH vs the Vaquero. I can get the BH in 4 5/8 for about 400 cheaper, so it's kinda a big difference.

The cowboy action championship had been won several years with them,that's why I asked.

@BatteryOaksBilly, I know you are a wheel gun guy......
 
Hey! I did SASS for a few years with my father in law and daughters, but have not had time in the past few years because of working on weekends.
I shot 5-1/2 inch barrel 357 old model Vaqueros, but my goal was to have a pair of 3-screw 4-5/8 inch barrel 357 Blackhawks to replace them. I only got one of those Blackhawks so far.
I got to handle some Blackhawks from a local guy who had won the national championship with them, and I liked them because of the shorter barrels and they are a little bit lighter (same reasons he preferred them). I also like the four-click action of the three-screw guns (no transfer bar), but not everyone does.
Are you talking about old models or new models? Lots of folks run the new models and like them.
 
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I cant speak about the new vaqueros. The only difference between the old vaqueros and the Blackhawks is adjustable sights and the case coloring.

Either ruger will need work to be a completion gun for SASS. I tested an Evil Roy colt clone from Taylor's. All I can say is WOW. Out of the box, that's the best action and trigger I've ever felt.
 
I have a 3-screw Blackhawk 357, several New Model Blackhawks in various chamberings, old Vaqueros in various chamberings, and some New Vaqueros in 45 Colt and 357. For 357, my favorites are the New Vaqueros. I like the fixed sights because they are lower than the adjustable sights on a Blackhawk. I really like the fact that they index when the loading gate is open so that the chamber is lined up properly for easy unloading and reloading. If I were limited to one model of Ruger single action revolvers in 357 I would choose the New Vaquero hands down over the others.

I prefer the old Vaqueros in 44/40, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt.
 
Charlie said:
I really like the fact that they index when the loading gate is open so that the chamber is lined up properly for easy unloading and reloading.
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That is one of the quirks I don't like about NMBHs... one way to fix it when it doesn't line up with loading gate open, is a Free Spin Pawl.
 
MacEntyre said:
That is one of the quirks I don't like about NMBHs... one way to fix it when it doesn't line up with loading gate open, is a Free Spin Pawl.
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That is one option, but you still must line it up manually.

My old 3-screws lined up properly until I had the transfer bar installed. I put the original parts back in so that it would again line up the way it should.
 
With your intended purpose I would go with the smaller New Vaquero. If you started shooting them Today your Great Great Grandchildren couldn't wear them out. I carry and use Colts But the New Vaquero is really close to the same "feel" and far stronger than any of the clones or the original Colts for continual use.
 
Charlie said:
That is one option, but you still must line it up manually.
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You have to line it up manually, but you can line it up manually with a free spin pawl. It goes backwards, when you rotate too far.

I prefer it when the cylinder is lined up at the stop.
 
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Charlie said:
For 357, my favorites are the New Vaqueros. I like the fixed sights because they are lower than the adjustable sights on a Blackhawk.
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That is what worried me a bit when thinking about working the hammer, that BH sight is pretty tall. If I had a bear chasing me, I'd want it pretty prominant, right? ha!
 
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Sneakymedic said:
That is what worried me a bit when thinking about working the hammer, that BH sight is pretty tall. If I had a bear chasing me, I'd want it pretty prominant, right? ha!
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I find the low fixed sights to be easier and quicker to get on target than the high adjustable sights. I suppose it is about like pointing a finger. Your experience may not be the same as mine.
 
If you are going to be near the foundry one weekend, I have the following I could bring for you to handle if that would help with your decision:
-Old model vaquero 5.5 inch
-Three screw blackhawk four and five eights inch
-New model vaquero 5.5 inch Bisley, The less common type of grip frame where the curvature is different
-New model Blackhawk convertible four and five eights inch barrel
 
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From the top down, 45 Blackhawk Convertible, 45 Colt New Vaquero, 3-screw 357 Blackhawk, and several old Vaqueros in 45 Colt and a 44/40 with white grips. The New Vaquero is noticeably smaller than the Blackhawks or the old Vaqueros. My New Vaqueros do not have the Bisley grips, but I have enjoyed shooting some that do. IMG_1772.JPG IMG_1689.JPG IMG_1835.JPG IMG_1717.JPG
 
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I personally do not like the standard BH grip frame. It's big and bulky. My single seven has a smaller grip frame and I like it. I have changed both my BH and SBH out to a bisleyish style grip frame and they handle much better. I did fondle some Italian colt clones and they feel better than the standard BH grip frame.

The bisley grips where orginally designed for target shooters back into the late 1800s. Ruger bisley is not a true replica of the original colt bisley. They are closer to a Keith #5 grip bit not a true copy of that either.

Since you will be competing with them, I would say to try some of the different grips before you buy.
 
I had an old model Vaquero and found it to be heavier than I thought was needed for the cartridge due to the weight of the barrel. I sold it to a forum member who is hopefully enjoying it more than I did. That said I have owned and own probably a dozen BHs of various calibers over the years and have never broken one or had one fail. they are the M60 tank of the single action world.
 
Charlie said:
I find the low fixed sights to be easier and quicker to get on target than the high adjustable sights. I suppose it is about like pointing a finger. Your experience may not be the same as mine.
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In the 80s and 90s you couldn't Give a fixed sight gun away. Today the old fixed sight guns bring premiums. Ain't folks nuts???
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Always thought Ruger dropped the ball on this. The Keith #5 is the perfect grip frame for SAs.
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You should check out Ronnie Wells gripframes. Many of his designs aren't on the website, but most get covered in the sticky on sixguns.com forum. That man has studied how a revolver acts as it recoils more in depth than anyone else. Plus his machine work is top notch.
Bisley for old model with sbh hammer? Yep.
1860- style for new model? Yep
Bisley with finger grooves, angle rotated 4°, +.300" length? Yes
Lightening grip for new models? Sure
He told me he has 240 variations for Ruger blackhawk alone. Plus the bfr and Freedom Arms. I'm waiting on a brass banana grip from the bfr fitted for an old model now.
 
Blackhawk is big in the frame, heavy and has a small grip like the colt so it "feels" off. Where the colt (and accurate copies) is smaller/lighter in the frame and feels right in its grip. .

Blackhawk's a fine and durable gun and for happy/joy fast shooting like SASS, I'd recommend you update it to the 1860 Colt Army 44 Grip. Its 3/8" longer for a full 4 finger grip, somewhat slimmer for average size hands to get a fine grip, back strap is closer to the trigger so you don't have to stretch your trigger finger to reach it, inner trigger loop is slightly further away so the trigger guard won't beat your middle finger as much with heavy loads.

Going with smaller birdshead grips (not counting the lightning grip, its great!) on the blackhawk is falling into a deep dark inescapable pit, especially with the larger calibers, you just loose too much control/repeatability.

Overall, the 1860 grip is the best holding best pointing grip for about any SAA (lightning is #2) and it really helps balance out and control the larger heavier blackhawk.

The draw back is you have to do the conversion at home or find a gunsmith to do it. I always use the Italian parts (uberties/pietta) and have converted several. With hand tools you can do the conversion in a weekend.

Install the 1860 Army Grip on a Vaquero

The 1860 Army Grip is the largest and closest to the trigger. Many sizes. The smallest are on the old Pietta/CVA percussion guns from the 80s and 90s. The late model uberti's and piettas, are closer to full size, with the pieta being bigger/closer to original than the uberti. But, as...
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com

Tiffany 1860 Army Blackhawk

I think its going to work. A lotta work but.....we'll see.
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com
 
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To buy off Ronnie's site you have to be registered on the sixguns.com forum. I recommend that anyway because it is filled with the most knowledgeable professionals on the internet. Bobby Tyler, Jack Huntington, John Taffin, David Bradshaw, Ronnie Wells, and many others are on there regularly and share freely.
WARNING! Being in chats with and seeing the work done by the top smiths will cost you money! Thanks to that site I have an old model at Tyler's, a new model at Clements, my bfr is at Ronnie's being used to pattern the Bisley banana grip to fit a Ruger, and I test some of Ronnie's prototypes so usually buy a new gun for each one that works out to customize further. Expensive but awesome!
 
Ronnie's a great guy & definitely one of us. Well worth the 30-45 minutes, minimum, it'll cost ya to give him a call & shoot the breeze.

I've got one of his Bisley variants with some nice leopard wood grips to go on my .357 Max & will definitely use his stuff on at least one more project going forward.

I've said it before on here, the Single Actions board is packed fulla talent & experience & good people (not unlike here). 'N if yer into single actions & at all susceptible to peer pressure, it can be an expensive place to hang out. I had no idea I needed a .357 Max or .41 Special in my life, let alone the services of "name" gunsmiths.
 
Sharps40 said:
Blackhawk is big in the frame, heavy and has a small grip like the colt so it "feels" off. Where the colt (and accurate copies) is smaller/lighter in the frame and feels right in its grip. .

Blackhawk's a fine and durable gun and for happy/joy fast shooting like SASS, I'd recommend you update it to the 1860 Colt Army 44 Grip. Its 3/8" longer for a full 4 finger grip, somewhat slimmer for average size hands to get a fine grip, back strap is closer to the trigger so you don't have to stretch your trigger finger to reach it, inner trigger loop is slightly further away so the trigger guard won't beat your middle finger as much with heavy loads.

Going with smaller birdshead grips (not counting the lightning grip, its great!) on the blackhawk is falling into a deep dark inescapable pit, especially with the larger calibers, you just loose too much control/repeatability.

Overall, the 1860 grip is the best holding best pointing grip for about any SAA (lightning is #2) and it really helps balance out and control the larger heavier blackhawk.

The draw back is you have to do the conversion at home or find a gunsmith to do it. I always use the Italian parts (uberties/pietta) and have converted several. With hand tools you can do the conversion in a weekend.

Install the 1860 Army Grip on a Vaquero

The 1860 Army Grip is the largest and closest to the trigger. Many sizes. The smallest are on the old Pietta/CVA percussion guns from the 80s and 90s. The late model uberti's and piettas, are closer to full size, with the pieta being bigger/closer to original than the uberti. But, as...
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com

Tiffany 1860 Army Blackhawk

I think its going to work. A lotta work but.....we'll see.
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com
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Absolutely agree in full.
 
MacEntyre said:
Is this the same?

rwgripframes-com.3dcartstores.com

NM 1860-Model 1860

rwgripframes-com.3dcartstores.com
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sure looks like it, that'll use screw on panels instead of a one piece grip. Very salty but it'll get you into the better grip with less hand work. If it was a 2 piece it would be perfect (allowing choice of one piece grip or 2 piece with screw) but as is, very nice looking. I remember way back when I married my first guns grip to my first guns frame (1860 colt replica to a ruger blackhawk) as a custom gift for my Dad..... and everybody said such things as why, yer stupid, it can't be done, brass ain't strong enough, impossible to convert from flat spring to coil springs, impossible to drill the bolt return plunger into the trigger guard, impossible to drill the old model trigger return plunger, no way it can be done on the old model let alone the new model......now, many years later pietta offers the Alchimista I, II and III, direct bolt on frames are available for the new model ruger action and priced like precious metals, etc. I wish I would have patented the idea.

1860-2.jpg1860-1.jpg
 
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Well, this is an older thread, and I hadn't seen it before.

WITHOUT upsetting folks,, I'd like to POLITELY offer a few suggestions on terminology.
There are no "Old Model Vaquero's." All Ruger Old Models were made prior to 1973.
The Vaquero's were not introduced until 1993, fully 20 years after the Old Model, 3-screw action was discontinued.
The Vaquero's ALL of them, have the New Model action with the safety transfer bar.
Originally, the Vaquero's were built on the Blackhawk sized main frame. AND, they all have a (2) digit prefix in the serial number.
These guns are called; "Original Vaquero's" by the Ruger aficionados, to distinguish them from the Old Model guns, as well as the "New Vaquero's."
The "New Vaquero's" built on a medium sized frame, came out & have a (3) digit prefix.

And yes, Ronnie Wells is building some EXCELLENT grip frames that fit more folks. He's a heck of a guy. And if SA handguns are your thing,, then by all means, visit the singleaction forum owned by Lee Martin. We do have fun over there.
 
You may notice I wrote old Vaquero as opposed to Old Vaquero but wrote New Vaquero because that is what is on the revolver. You are correct that there should not be any Blackhawks or Vaqueros marked Old Blackhawk or Old Vaqueros. That would be like finding a Roman Coin marked 44 BC.
 
Actually Ruger has caused some confusion themselves with some of their markings.
In 1973,,, they began marking the guns with "New Model" which caused everyone to call the older ones, "Old Model." Then the Vaquero's came out & were marked "New Model Vaquero" which was fine. But when they came out with the "New Vaquero" marking,,, it created a bit of a quandary, because they only made the guns in the mid-sized frames. The heavier calibers, like .44 Mag are not built on the mid-frame for safety reasons. The way we can determine the size of the frame is the prefix in the serial number.

Ruger terminology can be a bit confusing for sure.
 
It is not as confusing as it can be made to appear. The New Model Blackhawk, two screws, came out before any Vaqueros if I am not mistaken. The New Blackhawks are so labeled on the revolver. There are no Old Blackhawks but rather only old three screw Blackhawks. Since the Vaqueros came about after the shift to the two screw New Blackhawks, calling a revolver an old Vaquero does not imply that they are based on the old three screw Blackhawks but rather that they are the larger version of Vaquero based on the larger two screw frame. The New Vaqueros are based on a smaller two screw frame.
 
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