Pinewood derby rant!

sixtysevensg

I got nuthin'...
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So, what gives with folks buying professionally built cars? Last night a check in we saw 2 blatantly bought cars, and at least 3 that I am 99% sure they were bought. And this was only about 45 minutes into check in, so there may be more. To me it completely defeats the purpose of parent/son building the car together. Instead of thinking out layout, cutting, sanding, drilling, and painting, you just go to ebay and hit buy it now! If you don't have the tools, the scout store in town offers tools to use. They even advertise a weekend to come and lay out the cars, at least 4 bandsaws and sanders to use when we went last year. And the people are really helpful too.

It just pisses me! And on top of that, it broke my heart, but in the parking lot I felt that I needed to tell my son that he probably wouldn't win, but to be proud of his car regardless, because wherever he places, that is his car. Built, not bought!

Sorry. Rant over.
 
So, what gives with folks buying professionally built cars? Last night a check in we saw 2 blatantly bought cars, and at least 3 that I am 99% sure they were bought. And this was only about 45 minutes into check in, so there may be more. To me it completely defeats the purpose of parent/son building the car together. Instead of thinking out layout, cutting, sanding, drilling, and painting, you just go to ebay and hit buy it now! If you don't have the tools, the scout store in town offers tools to use. They even advertise a weekend to come and lay out the cars, at least 4 bandsaws and sanders to use when we went last year. And the people are really helpful too.

It just pisses me! And on top of that, it broke my heart, but in the parking lot I felt that I needed to tell my son that he probably wouldn't win, but to be proud of his car regardless, because wherever he places, that is his car. Built, not bought!

Sorry. Rant over.

Competition.

My son and I built his and it turned out like crap, simple as that. It boggles my mind how many people get in to that
 
Id rather do it myself and it not be the best vs just buy it and beat everyone. I dont see the fun in that.

Question to the OP - how often do you run the Pinewood Derby?
I'll be honest, I'd LOVE to build one and see how it does. Just to see if I could create something good
 
Like said above.....mostly competition.

There are probably a few that have zero skills at that type of a project.

It really does take the fun out of it.....
 
Back when my son and I did these, there was a separate parent race. My son always did as much as he could after watching what I did with mine. By Webelo years he was on his own.

He enjoyed it enough that he did his science fair project on PD physics.

We hosted a design workshop entitled “Building for speed using a coping saw, sanding block, and a drill”.

We had simple designs that focused on learning physics.

But the key was that we did all these things together (he called out data for his science fair and I wrote it down).
 
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Your Pack should write their own rules that explicitly disallow pre-manufactured cars and other little gimmicks. Ours does. I emphasize having fun over making a NASA-approved rocket sled.
 
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Impeeza district awards prizes for speed, craftsmanship, and creative design. Everyone races for speed and the speed winners cannot win another category.

Local Boy Scouts did the non-speed judging.
 
I helped my daughter a couple years and she won because she was the only one in her class. But we had a couple engineers in our church and the cars they built were flat out amazing. They also knew all the little tricks on how to make them fly. One of the cars went down the track then sat there and we timed the spinning wheel it took almost a minute to stop.
 
I saw one time where a new family joined the Pack on the day of the derby. They took the block out of the box, put wheels on it, a little graphite, and it won.
 
In shop class in the seventh grade our teacher stretched two wires from the classroom through the CAD/flight simulator room and ended in the other side of the wood shop. They were about 3 inches of the ground. Maybe 100 feet total. He then gave us all a 4 inch wide piece rough sawn 16/4 pine about ten inches long with a hole bored in the end to accept a c02 cartridge. We laid out and designed, then made and sanded/painted our cars. He had an apparatus that would swing down and pierce two cartridges simultaneously and the cars would race to the other end tied to the wire with eye hooks. We did a double elimination bracket with the whole class. Still one of my favorite shop class memories.
 
I used to work with a tool and die maker who "helped" his son build his derby cars. He won every year and after his son aged out, other parents would call him to "help" with their cars. He had access to a full tool room and I don't know what all he did to them.
 
My dad and I built this together ~35 years ago... Lost the roll cage (nail bent into a "U")...

Memories that no one can take from me.. And could never be purchased on eBay.

1549147863531940370983.jpg
 
Wish I knew where I put mine. Won first place and dad let/made me do most of the work. Spent last Saturday morning at the ToolBank in Charlotte cutting derby cars for the scouts that came there to build their cars. Lots of parents but it didn't look like too many of them were out of control. There was one guy but there's always one right? I didn't even know there was a market for professional derby cars that's kind of sad.
 
My dad and I built this together ~35 years ago... Lost the roll cage (nail bent into a "U")...

Memories that no one can take from me.. And could never be purchased on eBay.

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That is worth one of these Derby Dome displays.

As one of the parent races I referenced, I refurbished my car from ‘76.
 

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Wish I knew where I put mine. Won first place and dad let/made me do most of the work. Spent last Saturday morning at the ToolBank in Charlotte cutting derby cars for the scouts that came there to build their cars. Lots of parents but it didn't look like too many of them were out of control. There was one guy but there's always one right? I didn't even know there was a market for professional derby cars that's kind of sad.

There is an online magazine called The Pinewood Derby Times. Tell the kids to submit a picture of their car and it will eventually make the site. They are always asking for car pics.
 
I used to work with a tool and die maker who "helped" his son build his derby cars. He won every year and after his son aged out, other parents would call him to "help" with their cars. He had access to a full tool room and I don't know what all he did to them.
So, it seems that I may have been mistaken, at least on some of the cars. I over heard that one of the dads has a CNC set up at his house and just builds derby cars (he's "retired"). He built the 1st and 2nd place cars in Weblos II (his sons car and his buddies sons car), in which my son came in 4th. We had to leave early because my son wasn't feeling well, so we don't know who won over all.

Still, my disdain stands on bought cars. I know it happens (my BIL bought my nephews car, he made it to state finals, but you could tell he felt he didn't earn it. He's a good kid).
 
I think the problem is that most people are missing the whole point. It doesn't matter if it's bought or if their dad made it in his CNC shop, at least not to me anyway. The point of the whole thing is for kids to learn, use their hands, use their minds and have fun at the same time. If you want to have a competitive class or something where anything goes then be my guest but don't pretend you're doing it for your kid or that they're going to get something out of it. All you're teaching your kid is that you can always buy something better then you can build it and to not bother trying to do it yourself because someone else can do it better.
 
I was a Cubmaster and a few months before the derby we had a "campout" in the church gym/theater and I would show this movie on the big screen (for a reason). You need to watch it with your kids.
MV5BMTc3MTI4MTMyMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTIxNzgyMQ@@._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182,268_AL_.jpg


 
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I enjoyed building PD racers with my Dad over 50 years ago. Yes, we used the equipment in his shop to reduce the rolling resistance of the nail-axles and wheels. And the mercury we used to fine-tune the car's weight would probably trigger an EPA hazmat response today. But danged if it was not fun doing stuff together.
 
I was a Cubmaster and a few months before the derby we had a "campout" in the church gym/theater and I would show this movie on the big screen (for a reason). You need to watch it with your kids.
MV5BMTc3MTI4MTMyMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTIxNzgyMQ@@._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182,268_AL_.jpg




I remember we saw this when he was a Tiger.
 
I remember we saw this when he was a Tiger.
Another movie that I think all boys should watch with their dad's. Girls too for that matter.
220px-A_Goofy_Movie_poster.jpg

Seriously, watch it with your son, before it's too late. It's more than you would expect, quite a bit more. ;)
 
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That some would buy their cars on Ebay for the purpose of supposedly winning at the end is very reflective on society today. I am sure that their victory is still hollow.
 
OP...I get it. I hate that stuff, too. Some people are just too focused on winning that they forget what stuff is supposed to be about.
The dad/son comraderie...creating something...*sigh*

@HMP you said you'd love to build one, and as an educator, I thought you might like this video about the principles of physics behind one.

 
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OP...I get it. I hate that stuff, too. Some people are just too focused on winning that they forget what stuff is supposed to be about.
The dad/son comraderie...creating something...*sigh*

@HMP you said you'd love to build one, and as an educator, I thought you might like this video about the principles of physics behind one.



I dont want to watch that, but thank you.
I say that for a reason (and it's not to be a jerk like some -BB - would lead you to believe) - I want to see what I can do.
I would like to try a couple of different designs to see if there was much of a difference. I'd like to toy with weights and where the weights are etc and use MY ideas.
Now, if it came down to it, and I would think this would be awesome to do, and we had a CFF PWD Day...I'd build about three. I have two ideas and then one based off (after I'd done mine) the video.

It's just how I am. I see bikes and cars (race) and look at the lines and think about airflow etc. While I realize those two things have to consider cooling and intake, the basic aerodynamics are still in play, I'd think.
I think about my bikes (well, two of the four, anyway) - makes me think of a rain drop.

I wonder how much aero would come into play in such a short distance as this. Obviously a flat fronted 'car' wont be as good as another design, but how much could you do?

I'll keep that video in mind, and it's likely I'll never build one so I watch later anyway (I mean, I dont really have an opportunity to do it, to race one)
 
I dont want to watch that, but thank you.
I say that for a reason (and it's not to be a jerk like some -BB - would lead you to believe) - I want to see what I can do.
I would like to try a couple of different designs to see if there was much of a difference. I'd like to toy with weights and where the weights are etc and use MY ideas.
Now, if it came down to it, and I would think this would be awesome to do, and we had a CFF PWD Day...I'd build about three. I have two ideas and then one based off (after I'd done mine) the video.

It's just how I am. I see bikes and cars (race) and look at the lines and think about airflow etc. While I realize those two things have to consider cooling and intake, the basic aerodynamics are still in play, I'd think.
I think about my bikes (well, two of the four, anyway) - makes me think of a rain drop.

I wonder how much aero would come into play in such a short distance as this. Obviously a flat fronted 'car' wont be as good as another design, but how much could you do?

I'll keep that video in mind, and it's likely I'll never build one so I watch later anyway (I mean, I dont really have an opportunity to do it, to race one)

Everything in design matters, but not everything matters equally. I would love to have access to a track to do much of what you discuss, but software simulations do a better job of letting you just change one factor.
 
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