Pistol Mounted Red Dot Info

Derek8404

Derek8404

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Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics has been conducting ongoing testing on the many different MRDS models on the market right now. He has been constantly updating this info in his "white paper" and just released the third edition. This is an excellent source of info for anyone looking to find out more info on red dot usage on pistols.

https://1312bba5-e7e7-76e8-1fca-a01...d/7dc128_21de6dec9537496b9c0ff74a0c1370c2.pdf
 
That's some epic nerdery there. Lot of work there.

The Holosuns have really come a long way and seem like the sweet spot bargain.

@Professor Chaos we were just talking about this and it seems you hit the nail on the head.
 
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I was soooo afraid to click that link lol
Turns out it's not a trap and and some weird tranny porn doesn't give your computer the virtual clap lmao

I skimmed the first couple of pages and Im going to go back when I can actually devote some time to reading it.
Thanks for posting it, Derek
 
Very good read. Ill admit I skimmed a bunch of the eye science stuff, but the testing done on the reddots seemed solid. Was somewhat surprised to see so many fail on a drop test, but hey...I guess that's what glass do when it be done like dat.
 
B00ger said:
Very good read. Ill admit I skimmed a bunch of the eye science stuff, but the testing done on the reddots seemed solid. Was somewhat surprised to see so many fail on a drop test, but hey...I guess that's what glass do when it be done like dat.
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I love the drop tests if only for the fact that, in the Sage Dynamics videos, the front suppressor height sights seem to snap off the Glock about a third of the time.

Honestly, an RMR or Holosun seems to be more rugged than any iron sight that's not milled directly to the slide.
 
One thing I took away from it was that the bigger that glass, the easier it was to break (shocker!) but your FOV is much much better on larger optics like the Leupold DPP, Trijicon SRO, and similar sized dots.

The tradeoff is you can shoot them faster, pick up the dot easier, etc. Since I don't regularly drive T-posts with my pistol slide and it stays in a holster unless shot out of my hand, I'm good with more FOV verses the peep-sight window on the 'rugged' ones. Otherwise I would just forget the whizbang RDS, and continue learning how to instinctly shoot my EDC without the sights, or do an open notch rear and a bright front sight like the XS big dot setup. That is strictly from a SD/HD point of view not shooting matches or other wastes of ammo ;)
 
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I'm really looking forward to the expiration of the owl-ears design patent.

A gamer optic with a top-load battery, easy adjustments, a big distortion-free window, a 2-3 MOA dot, and the structural protection of Trijicon's design? Count me in for a few of those.
 
I used one of the old 1" tube Aimpoint on a S & W model 25 8 3/8" barrel for years It was my deer stand gun & killed many Deer. I dont recall ever having to rezero in 10-12 years of use.
 
Great read. I just picked up an optics ready pistol and have been researching which to go with. I'm thinking the Holosun will be on my Black Friday lookout list.
 
Tim said:
Great read. I just picked up an optics ready pistol and have been researching which to go with. I'm thinking the Holosun will be on my Black Friday lookout list.
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The Holosuns are an incredible value and very durable. Even if you miss one in stock on a Black Friday sale, they are worth every penny!
 
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Tim said:
Great read. I just picked up an optics ready pistol and have been researching which to go with. I'm thinking the Holosun will be on my Black Friday lookout list.
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might be able to find some real good deals on the 507C since the 508T just came out.
 
I had been interested in this concept for some time. I had never shot a carry gun with a red dot sight. My Pard @Stick Man and I had talked about it for some time. He made a trip this way with the gun he was carrying at the time. A G19 with an RMR, if my memory serves me. There were several people on the range shooting and after a while I decided to try my luck with his pistol. I walked down, brought the gun up.....couldn't find the dot. Thought perhaps I had it at an odd angle...tried again....couldn't find the dot. Must be my engrained "presentation" that wasn't allowing me to pick up the dot....NO...The Damn Battery Was Dead!. The end of my association with red dots on carry guns.
I have since had an opportunity to talk with a DEA agent that had been in 2 CQB situations with his issued pistol and red dot. He was almost killed looking for the Dot. The following week he shot a guy inside 10 yards with the same pistol...Without the red dot.
My close associate from the Concord area is now carrying a Glock still, but without the red dot last time he was here.
The Hackathorn-Wilson conversation posted by @Amp Mangum goes into this in depth. Check it out.
 
Lol, yep, that was an embarrassing day @BatteryOaksBilly. I had changed batteries in my RMR, and forgot to put the sealing plate back on. I have the 1st. Gen RMR, and sometimes with different batteries, they could flicker/not come on. The sealing plate I have has a "button" on it to put pressure on the battery so as to keep that from happening. When I got home, I "mortified" it and it has been 100% since then. Moral of the story, shit can happen, and on that day, ole Murphy could have been around, and as much as I have trained with the dot, and with back up irons, who knows if I would have "looked" for the dot and hesitated that split second until I went to the irons. So, now I'm carrying a G-48 98% of the time, and a non RMR'd 19 the others.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk
 
Tim said:
Great read. I just picked up an optics ready pistol and have been researching which to go with. I'm thinking the Holosun will be on my Black Friday lookout list.
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Save a few bucks, 407c or 407co. Most only use the dot reticle anyway. I thought 2moa might be too small, it's not a bit harder to find than my 6moa. The 8moa ring looks like a big dot turned up much, some sponsored shooter posted pictures, may have gone that route if I'd been able to get that info at the time.
 
I trust a purpose-built and properly-mounted RDO subject to proper PMCS as much as non-integral iron sights. Which is to say, a little:

- I had a Glock 35 eject its stock front sight under recoil, and then a replacement FO front sight did the same thing at a match (installed properly and lightly loctited);

- 1911 staked and dovetailed front sights (all factory) have ejected themselves;

- I had a Glock 21 walk a night sight halfway out of its dovetail under recoil during quals (no loctite on duty gun);

- Had a Glock 34 rear sight walk out of a dovetail at a GSSF match (factory rear sight);

- my buddy's CZ-75 came with a rear sight that fell out of its dovetail with light handling... totally loose from the factory; and

- many, many guns lost their sights in whole or in part at a high-volume rental cabinet at a range I managed (loose dovetails or voids in the metal).

Change batteries at regular intervals, keep emitters clean, keep lenses clean with proper cleaner and cloth, and keep screws of good quality properly torqued, keep the dot turned on before carrying keep your draw mechanics sound, and a red dot won't fail you any more than any other imperfect system.

A quality RDO can take heavy use and abuse. An untested RDO with a manufacturing defect or an improperly-installed RDO will fail just like an iron. An RDO with a dead battery or caked in mud is just as useful as a broken iron sight or a rear notch caked in mud.

The Dual Illum RMRs are, in my experience with them on abused rental guns and suppressor hosts, far less likely to fail or break than irons, but their shortcomings are due to tritium life and limitations with respect to external lighting conditions. If Trijicon could design those to collect ambient lighting from the front (e.g. WML splash) without overly compromising window size, I would trust one on a carry gun even without BUIS.
 
Well, I just laid out tree-fiddy for a gently used Trijicon. I figure at that price I can try it and flip if it’s not for me.
 
I’ve broken two rear sights on a center fire. A fixed and an adjustable. Along with a variety of other parts.
For a carry gun I would use a dot with backup sights. I don’t see how you can go wrong here.
My two main rifles have optics only. No backup sights at all.
 
While it may be drifting the thread a little, I've done a good bit of testing and playing with Red Dots on Revolvers in the last few years. Mine has been for target shooting and hunting, not self defense. For Revolvers, I like the tube style the best and have found as long as you don't buy the bottom basement quality, you don't have to break the bank to have a dependable sight that will stand up to the recoil of .357 and 44 mags. With my eyes not as good as they once were, its the best thing I've ever tried when shooting over 25 yards. Much Much better than a pistol scope. Easier to pick up quickly and see in low light. The dot to me is much more accurate as well. Like @gunbelt stated, mine stay zeroed in better than I ever thought. I also have a couple of the no drill mounts for S&W Revolvers and even if I don't plan on leaving the red dot mounted permanently, I use one on every target revolver I get to see which load shoots the best in a particular gun. We all know that some guns shoot certain loads better than others, but until I started playing with the red dots, I had no idea just how much difference it could make in a handgun at 25 yards. I've got a couple of guns with the right load, will shoot in one ragged hole at 25 yards and with another load the group might be 2-3".
 
Etruett said:
While it may be drifting the thread a little, I've done a good bit of testing and playing with Red Dots on Revolvers in the last few years. Mine has been for target shooting and hunting, not self defense. For Revolvers, I like the tube style the best and have found as long as you don't buy the bottom basement quality, you don't have to break the bank to have a dependable sight that will stand up to the recoil of .357 and 44 mags. With my eyes not as good as they once were, its the best thing I've ever tried when shooting over 25 yards. Much Much better than a pistol scope. Easier to pick up quickly and see in low light. The dot to me is much more accurate as well. Like @gunbelt stated, mine stay zeroed in better than I ever thought. I also have a couple of the no drill mounts for S&W Revolvers and even if I don't plan on leaving the red dot mounted permanently, I use one on every target revolver I get to see which load shoots the best in a particular gun. We all know that some guns shoot certain loads better than others, but until I started playing with the red dots, I had no idea just how much difference it could make in a handgun at 25 yards. I've got a couple of guns with the right load, will shoot in one ragged hole at 25 yards and with another load the group might be 2-3".
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I ran B-Square mounts on my revolvers with Aimpoints. They're big & ugly but they work.
 
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