police chase settlement, Durham

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Stogies

Stogies

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I think I remember this back from when it happened. The cops should only give chase when there is a compelling reason that by not doing so puts people and the public at greater imminent danger. Respect my author-I-tay and “you dissin me”, etc should not be part of the equation.
 
phideux said:
Easy cure for this, you run from the cops, mandatory 10yr prison sentence, right from the scene. No bond, no trial, no early release. You lead cops on a chase, get caught, go directly to prison, no questions asked, you are gone for 10yrs.
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This sound good but I have to disagree since once you side step or ignore someone's Constitutional rights it wont be long before the reason's are expanded and used against you or I.
 
phideux said:
Easy cure for this, you run from the cops, mandatory 10yr prison sentence, right from the scene. No bond, no trial, no early release. You lead cops on a chase, get caught, go directly to prison, no questions asked, you are gone for 10yrs.
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Mandatory sentencing guidelines have not really worked well so far.
 
Stogies said:
Mandatory sentencing guidelines have not really worked well so far.
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Sure it has. It's created a growing group of people with no rights that make prison industrial complex corporations with sweetheart deals billions in profits!
 
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Rock and a hard place situation. Police chases endanger innocent bystanders and property. No chase policy emboldens criminal behavior as more likely to escape.
When you throw in DAs unlikely to prosecute and /or no bail policies a life of crime can be an attractive career choice.
"When a clown moves into a palace he doesn't become a king. The palace becomes a circus" Turkish Proverb
 
phideux said:
Easy cure for this, you run from the cops, mandatory 10yr prison sentence, right from the scene. No bond, no trial, no early release. You lead cops on a chase, get caught, go directly to prison, no questions asked, you are gone for 10yrs.
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Yea, no. I got chased as a kid in 8th grade on a minbike not knowing I was even being chased, till their spot light was shining past me at night. My crime? Trying to avoid the police on school grounds leaving a father/son night shop class, not wanting to get popped for riding on the street, three blocks from home. I had never left the school grounds. Had turned around hoping to avoid the patrol car I spotted leaving the school from another entrance. I was the last one out as the teacher’s assistant after emptying a barrel of sawdust. Had every business being there, but everyone else had left.

I stopped, they threw my minibike in the trunk. Told me the department would sell it, took me downtown Charlotte.

Our next door neighbor was attorney for the Charlotte PD came and got me and the bike.
 
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It’s indeed a slippery slope. You can write a report to justify just about anything. I am all about punishing bad people, but I want to protect individual freedoms even more.


A LOT of departments had stopped chases altogether. Get that plate and write warrants for known associates.

Forsyth county killed a guy last year who shot at deputies during a pursuit. Crazy world we live in.
 
Perhaps not relevant, but there's a bridge in my town named for the cop that hit it and died.

The cop was chilling at the PD one night when a call came in about a suspected driver under the influence. That driver was heading south on 52, out of town. The PD is only (maybe less) than a couple of miles from the town limit. I bet if the officer can high tail it, he can catch up to the perpetrator.

He was flying down the road when another car pulls out of a side road, causing the officer to swerve to miss them.

He swerved into the end of the guardrail and that was the end of him.

You guys that drive from parts of NC to Conway cross that bridge just inside the town limits.
 
So, for kicks, I've looked up several articles about this from 2018 when it happened. Haven't found a single one that names the perp(s) who hijacked the chased car from its owner at gunpoint earlier in the day.
 
I have had the responsibility for having to determine if officers continue or stop a chase. It is a huge responsibility when you consider all factors including the possibility of innocent people getting hurt or killed as in this case. There have been occasions when I allowed the chase to continue and there have been times when I stopped the chase. IMHO, a no chase policy is not in the public’s best interest.

For example, one chase started when a guy walked into a convenience store one night after pumping gas yelling and complaining there was water in the gas. Bad guy then pulls out a gun and tried to shoot the employee. The employee was not injured due to bullet proof glass separating the two. Employee’s wife and friends had stopped in to visit the employee and was sitting at a table. As the employee went to call police, the bad guy turns to leave and shoots one of the women in the head killing her. She had not intervened in the incident as it unfolded rapidly. In this situation, there was a clear need to chase and stop the bad guy as he had no concern for the life of others.

Another incident, bad guy high on drugs, steals a car. Before it was reported stolen, bad guy almost hits another car at an intersection. Bad guy pulls out a gun and shot in to the innocent person’s vehicle. Luckily, the person wasn’t injured. We began chasing the bad guy and about 15 miles later, bad guy turns on to a dead end road. Gets out of his car with a handgun, less lethal weapons failed and he fired at officers, hitting two officers in the leg. Sadly, the officers had to use lethal force stopping the bad guy. Another incident that shows the risk to the public was greater than the risk of the chase.

In one situation, where officers were chasing a motorcycle, I called the chase off as I felt the charges didn’t out weigh the risk to the public. However, the guy continued speeding and driving recklessly. He wrecked approximately 10 miles later. Fortunately he wasn’t severely injured. But it does show that even when officers stop chasing the bad guy, they can still be a danger to others and themselves. So even when officers stop chasing, it doesn’t mean the bad is going to start driving with due regard to the safety of others.

Of course the other times when I called off a chase, there was no reported danger or injuries to the public, so it was the right call to stop chasing. My point being police and their supervisors do not have a crystal ball to foresee the out come so they can make the best decision for everyone involved including innocent members of the public. Best we can hope for is having highly trained and strong supervisors who will make the best decision based on all the information available at the time. I say strong, because for some it is hard for them to stop a chase even when the risk clearly does not outweigh the public’s safety and interest. I do wish there were a better way to prevent chases or stopping them quickly without causing danger to the public, officers, and bad guys and gals.
 
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cubrock said:
So, for kicks, I've looked up several articles about this from 2018 when it happened. Haven't found a single one that names the perp(s) who hijacked the chased car from its owner at gunpoint earlier in the day.
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suspects! minors who have had names withheld?
 
phideux said:
Easy cure for this, you run from the cops, mandatory 10yr prison sentence, right from the scene. No bond, no trial, no early release. You lead cops on a chase, get caught, go directly to prison, no questions asked, you are gone for 10yrs.
Click to expand...
Cool. So I would've been getting out of prison this year for a mistake I made as a dumb kid. Great idea bub
 
Average Joe said:
I have had the responsibility for having to determine if officers continue or stop a chase. It is a huge responsibility when you consider all factors including the possibility of innocent people getting hurt or killed as in this case. There have been occasions when I allowed the chase to continue and there have been times when I stopped the chase. IMHO, a no chase policy is not in the public’s best interest.

For example, one chase started when a guy walked into a convenience store one night after pumping gas yelling and complaining there was water in the gas. Bad guy then pulls out a gun and tried to shoot the employee. The employee was not injured due to bullet proof glass separating the two. Employee’s wife and friends had stopped in to visit the employee and was sitting at a table. As the employee went to call police, the bad guy turns to leave and shoots one of the women in the head killing her. She had not intervened in the incident as it unfolded rapidly. In this situation, there was a clear need to chase and stop the bad guy as he had no concern for the life of others.

Another incident, bad guy high on drugs, steals a car. Before it was reported stolen, bad guy almost hits another car at an intersection. Bad guy pulls out a gun and shot in to the innocent person’s vehicle. Luckily, the person wasn’t injured. We began chasing the bad guy and about 15 miles later, bad guy turns on to a dead end road. Gets out of his car with a handgun, less lethal weapons failed and he fired at officers, hitting two officers in the leg. Sadly, the officers had to use lethal force stopping the bad guy. Another incident that shows the risk to the public was greater than the risk of the chase.

In one situation, where officers were chasing a motorcycle, I called the chase off as I felt the charges didn’t out weigh the risk to the public. However, the guy continued speeding and driving recklessly. He wrecked approximately 10 miles later. Fortunately he wasn’t severely injured. But it does show that even when officers stop chasing the bad guy, they can still be a danger to others and themselves. So even when officers stop chasing, it doesn’t mean the bad is going to start driving with due regard to the safety of others.

Of course the other times when I called off a chase, there was no reported danger or injuries to the public, so it was the right call to stop chasing. My point being police and their supervisors do not have a crystal ball to foresee the out come so they can make the best decision for everyone involved including innocent members of the public. Best we can hope for is having highly trained and strong supervisors who will make the best decision based on all the information available at the time. I say strong, because for some it is hard for them to stop a chase even when the risk clearly does not outweigh the public’s safety and interest. I do wish there were a better way to prevent chases or stopping them quickly without causing danger to the public, officers, and bad guys and gals.
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No chase policies are about as smart as mandatory sentencing guidelines.
 
phideux said:
Easy cure for this, you run from the cops, mandatory 10yr prison sentence, right from the scene. No bond, no trial, no early release. You lead cops on a chase, get caught, go directly to prison, no questions asked, you are gone for 10yrs.
Click to expand...
You ain't down for just a little bit more than the law will allow
 
puregarbage said:
Catching car jackers is going after folks shoving guns in people's faces. Backing off pursuit can be deadly.
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Well in this case not backing off was deadly. I not saying to completely stop pursuits but there should be some very clear rules on them and decisions made by someone who is not caught up in the chase who has tunnel vision. Honestly this is really one of those case's where your damn if you do or damn if you don't
 
JohnFreeman said:
This is 100% the fault of "Tomaris"
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That is true, but it still doesn’t excuse negligent behavior in the part of the cops, of which I’m certain there was given the size of the payout. As @NC Gun Lover said, decisions need to be made by someone with a level head that isn’t in the thick of it and protocols need to be followed.

Actually, the more I think about it, I realize this is yet another example of why I don’t believe we should have standing police forces, and I think the founding documents make this case.
 
x39r said:
Cool. So I would've been getting out of prison this year for a mistake I made as a dumb kid. Great idea bub
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Maybe if it were a widely known fact that leading police on a chase that could turn deadly would get you locked up for a decade, you might not have run from the police.
Look at it this way, right now, the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime, the criminals know that getting put to death for killing someone almost never happens, about the same odds as winning the lottery. Change that to being taken from the courthouse immediately after the verdict and hung?? After the first couple hundred hangings or so, I bet killings would go down.
 
NC Gun Lover said:
Well in this case not backing off was deadly. I not saying to completely stop pursuits but there should be some very clear rules on them and decisions made by someone who is not caught up in the chase who has tunnel vision. Honestly this is really one of those case's where your damn if you do or damn if you don't
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I think your forgetting who killed someone and it wasn't a cop
 
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x39r said:
Cool. So I would've been getting out of prison this year for a mistake I made as a dumb kid. Great idea bub
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Well, actions DO have consequences. Some are more harsh than others. I hope it was a learning experience. And I do not say that in a sarcastic or demeaning way at all
 
noway2 said:
That is true, but it still doesn’t excuse negligent behavior in the part of the cops, of which I’m certain there was given the size of the payout. As @NC Gun Lover said, decisions need to be made by someone with a level head that isn’t in the thick of it and protocols need to be followed.

Actually, the more I think about it, I realize this is yet another example of why I don’t believe we should have standing police forces, and I think the founding documents make this case.
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Well we can't exactly have the sheriff round up a Posse to ride after the bad guys anymore either. Maybe that was the custom at the time but that seems a bit less than practical now.
 
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Stogies said:
Well we can't exactly have the sheriff round up a Posse to ride after the bad guys anymore either. Maybe that was the customer at the time but that seems a bit less than practical now.
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That may be, but there is a lot of room between that and what we have today. The 4th amendment doesn’t say, “ unless some career, tax funded, government enforcer thinks or suspects that you’ve committed a crime”.
 
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