Preemergent weed killer and pets

[kcult]

I want to treat my yard with one of these granular products and it was hopefully going to be this morning, but our dog goes outside frequently and I'm not sure if it will cause her any problems.

I'm reading the bag and it doesn't say anything specific about pets. It does say not to let workers in the area for 12hrs and something about being non toxic to fish under a certain amount, but nothing about pets.

Since it's a granule and not a liquid (which would normally be okay once it dries) what are the odds this stuff would make our dog sick or cause her paws or skin to react to it?

 

[Scsmith42]

Best to either water it in to dissolve the granules before letting pets out on it, or apply it just before it rains and keep the pets off until afterward.

 

[Supermatch]

The people I hired to salvage my lawn this spring said the granules they use are pet-safe. My understanding is that pendimethalin as the main ingredient is safer than prodiamine.

 

[Scsmith42]

Another option is to pick up some fertilizer that has Barricade included in it. I think that Lowes carries it.

 

[noway2]

To throw out an alternative, I’ve had good results with corn gluten fertilizer and yes, it is pre emergent and stops things like dandelions, however, it’s hard to find and expensive.

 

[Jimbob78]

Preemergent needs to be rained in, not irrigated. If you have centipede atrazine is a great one, Cimaron + if not. I’ve sprayed cimaron+ in horse pastures with horses in them with zero issue.

 

[kcult]

In my haste, I merely scanned the bag looking for keywords. Good grief if there isn't a ton of info on it.

After slowing down and reading a bit more throughly, the only precaution with pets (and people) I read was to let the dust settle before allowing them in the treated area.

It's calling for rain tonight and tomorrow and the dog has already been out to do her business, so I went ahead and treated the whole yard.

 

[Just Tripp]

All pre-emergent herbicides need to be watered in in order to work. It may be just a tad on the late side of the window, depending on what the target weed is and what product you’re using unless it has post-emergent activity as well. With rain coming you should be fine so long as you don’t get a deluge.

 

[Gator]

All pre-emergent herbicides need to be watered in in order to work. It may be just a tad on the late side of the window, depending on what the target weed is and what product you’re using unless it has post-emergent activity as well. With rain coming you should be fine so long as you don’t get a deluge.

I must live under a rock. Didn't know pre-emergent application this time of the year was a thing. So why have I always heard it mentioned as being applied in Feb-March ? Is this the same but different?

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[kcult]

I must live under a rock. Didn't know pre-emergent application this time of the year was a thing. So why have I always heard it mentioned as being applied in Feb-March ? Is this the same but different?

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In my limited knowledge (or ignorance), there is a sticker weed that germinates in the fall/winter, then grows in the spring.

Spraying the the actual plants in the spring doesn't prevent the sticker, even if it kills the plant.

I spend most of the year barefoot and I've grown tired of getting these stuck in my feet and pulling the plant (and stickers) up by hand, therefore, preemergent.

We'll see how it works come spring.

 

[CZfool68]

In my limited knowledge (or ignorance), there is a sticker weed that germinates in the fall/winter, then grows in the spring.

Spraying the the actual plants in the spring doesn't prevent the sticker, even if it kills the plant.

I spend most of the year barefoot and I've grown tired of getting these stuck in my feet and pulling the plant (and stickers) up by hand, therefore, preemergent.

We'll see how it works come spring.

I‘d bet footwear is cheaper and better for you and your dog‘s health than pre-emergent. Mow those weeds shirt and they look just like grass.

 

[kcult]

I‘d bet footwear is cheaper and better for you and your dog‘s health than pre-emergent. Mow those weeds shirt and they look just like grass.

You can't mow close enough to get these.

The stickers also get in the dog's feet.

Perhaps you can recommend a shoe for her?

 

[CZfool68]

You can't mow close enough to get these.

The stickers also get in the dog's feet.

Perhaps you can recommend a shoe for her?

The dog or wife? Although I guess these days they both wear those big ugly Ugg things. That should only cost you about 20-30 Buckets.

 

[Just Tripp]

I must live under a rock. Didn't know pre-emergent application this time of the year was a thing. So why have I always heard it mentioned as being applied in Feb-March ? Is this the same but different?

.

In my limited knowledge (or ignorance), there is a sticker weed that germinates in the fall/winter, then grows in the spring.

Spraying the the actual plants in the spring doesn't prevent the sticker, even if it kills the plant.

I spend most of the year barefoot and I've grown tired of getting these stuck in my feet and pulling the plant (and stickers) up by hand, therefore, preemergent.

We'll see how it works come spring.

Pre-emergent can be applied in the spring and the fall for different target weeds. Most often, and I’m speaking from a golf course perspective, fall pre-em is applied for Poa Annua which germinates as the soil temp drops below 70 degrees. Spring apps usually target summer annual weeds such as crab grass which germinates when the soil temp reaches about 50-55 degrees.

The strategy with pre-em herbicide is to apply it before the soil reaches the temp at which the weed seeds germinate. With Poa we usually start applications mid to late September, often with more than one app spread out over several weeks. In the spring we usually start applications in February to March just before the temps reach the temp for optimum germination of the weed. Going too early usually results in poor control because the herbicide has been leached through the soil by the time the weed seed germinates.

Pre-ems work by creating a blanket in the top portion of the soil that kills the weed seed as it sets its first root or shoot. If the chemical isn’t applied within the control window it loses its effectiveness due to leaching or volatility.

@kcult, I searched sand spur and it appears to germinate at a soil temperature around 52 degrees. That’s handy because it’s around the same temperature as crab grass.

So, how do you know what the soil temperature is and apply before that point? You can search for local extension agencies that monitor soil temperature in your area. There is a research station we monitor in this area that posts on the web in Eagle Springs that we watch that is pretty reliable. Or you can just watch for when forsythia starts to bloom. It blooms at around 49-50 soil temp I think, and is a pretty reliable indicator that we have used for years.

 

[73Chall]

Just Tripp hits the nail on the head; it’s all about knowing soil temps

A handy reference is the NCSU CRONOS map - one can use it to monitor a wide array of climate factors:

NC SCO Weather Map

(See attached screen shot) GreencastOnline.com also offers a FREE soil temp alert email system and I use it along with CRONOS for tremendous success: https://www.greencastonline.com/login/signup.aspx#soil-temperature

@kcult , rule of thumb in our household is product has to be rained in AND THEN ground dry before our 20-lb Jack Russell mix is allowed on the lawn, after I’ve applied a herbicide or fungicide. Even then the wife has been known to wipe his feet off with a wet old washcloth after being on the grass - depending on when and what my last application was (herbicide or fungicide, etc.)

What kind of grass is growing in your yard? Cool season turf species or wam season grass? Fescue? Bermuda?

Can you post a couple photos of the plant in question? I ask as knowing precisely which spined broadleaf weed you are dealing with is the first and necessary step in successful (and effective and Economical) and lasting eradication …

Depending upon which species of plant you’re dealing with:

DO NOT be discouraged if you find you will need more than one application of pre-emergent (millions of years of evolution have not been wasted and some weeds call for maximum label rates of app. as well as sequential treatments)

DO be ready to consider a 3 app attack for at least one (not likely but, possibly two years). I.e., 3 months from now (February 15th) Prodiamine, 4 months after that Diothipyr, then pendimethalin (as mentioned upthread, it is better to err on the side of being early rather than late when estimating when to apply pre-emergents; I.e., the old wives tale about waiting “til one sees forsythia blooms“ to put down pre-emergent to prevent crabgrass has been proven - by a NCSU researcher no less - to now be a failure path (in Mid-Atlantic and especially South / South East a target date of Valentine’s Day is many, many more times effective). The research confirmed that crabgrass has long now developed resistance to pre-emergents applied when soil temps are where they used to work in the 60’s and 70’s.

At the very least, AVOID using any product more than 2x in a row - plant and especially weed resistance to herbicides is very much a real thing.

DO consider using “per app” max rates without exceeding “per year” max rates (switching up active ingredients helps here as well as getting around any individual species tendency toward resistance)

If your budget will allow it, consider also any pre-emergent also containing Sulfentrazone. It has post-emergent properties as well, also as mentioned upthread …

Best of success!



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[kcult]

This is the culprit.

Lawn Burrweed | NC State Extension Publications

This factsheet summarizes the characteristics of lawn burrweed.

content.ces.ncsu.edu

 

[BlackGun]

Add this to the huge list of cons for owning pets. I don’t miss it.

 

[kcult]

Add this to the huge list of cons for owning pets. I don’t miss it.

We were pet-free for maybe a year and I loved it.

 

[Gator]

I know it's been said before but this place is so much more than a gun forum. Thanks to all for the info, I got answers in a thread I didn't start, to questions I didn't know I needed to ask.

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[Culper]

This is the culprit.

Lawn Burrweed | NC State Extension Publications

This factsheet summarizes the characteristics of lawn burrweed.

content.ces.ncsu.edu

Are there few enough you could spot spray over the course of a few sessions?

Does mowing at least interrupt the reproductive cycle? I didn't see how it spreads in the link.

Encouraging the desired species can help keep pressure on new seedlings trying to take off.

 

[kcult]

Are there few enough you could spot spray over the course of a few sessions?

Does mowing at least interrupt the reproductive cycle? I didn't see how it spreads in the link.

Encouraging the desired species can help keep pressure on new seedlings trying to take off.

I don't see them in the fall and by the time they start growing in the spring, it's pretty much too late.

I'm guessing you can spray them as they are just starting to grow, but I'm fairly confident I would have to spray the entire yard since trying to find them emerging so that I can spot spray would be difficult.

I hope that made sense.

It's easier to spot spray dandelion because of their size. I usually only find the burr weed once one sticks in my foot. Then I mark the area, grab my gloves, and start pulling them out of the ground.

 

[Culper]

I don't see them in the fall and by the time they start growing in the spring, it's pretty much too late.

I'm guessing you can spray them as they are just starting to grow, but I'm fairly confident I would have to spray the entire yard since trying to find them emerging so that I can spot spray would be difficult.

I hope that made sense.

It's easier to spot spray dandelion because of their size. I usually only find the burr weed once one sticks in my foot. Then I mark the area, grab my gloves, and start pulling them out of the ground.

I understand, sounds like it is an annual plant, so if you could significantly reduce reproduction, it should thin out in a season or two. Pulling them should work well. Do you ever see it flowering or going to seed?

This does provide post emergence control recommendations:

Lawn Burweed

Nothing designates spring’s arrival like walking barefoot on a lawn of lush, green grass. This pleasant experience can often turn into a painful, sticky...

hgic.clemson.edu

 

[kcult]

I understand, sounds like it is an annual plant, so if you could significantly reduce reproduction, it should thin out in a season or two. Pulling them should work well. Do you ever see it flowering or going to seed?

This does provide post emergence control recommendations:

Lawn Burweed

Nothing designates spring’s arrival like walking barefoot on a lawn of lush, green grass. This pleasant experience can often turn into a painful, sticky...

hgic.clemson.edu

I've seen the flowers before.

As much as I hate to say it, pulling them seemed to be the most effective method of getting rid of them. I've been able to walk barefooted for maybe the past four or five months without getting stuck. But pulling them means I have to find them.

 

[73Chall]

I understand, sounds like it is an annual plant, so if you could significantly reduce reproduction, it should thin out in a season or two. Pulling them should work well. Do you ever see it flowering or going to seed?

This does provide post emergence control recommendations:

Lawn Burweed

Nothing designates spring’s arrival like walking barefoot on a lawn of lush, green grass. This pleasant experience can often turn into a painful, sticky...

hgic.clemson.edu

^Terrific reference site^ and on par with what NCSU Extension USED TO provide. Alas, at some point in last couple years they have gone through (someone did) and remove all the accurate advice and recommendations on chemical control. Sad.

@kcult: https://www.domyown.com/fertilome-broadleaf-weed-control-with-gallery-p-2016.html

Chemical Control​

Post-emergence Control: The key factor to effectively controlling lawn burweed is to apply a post-emergence herbicide during the winter months of December, January, and February. The weed is smaller and easier to control during this time of year and has not yet developed the spine-tipped burs. Control is not impossible in March, April, and May, but the spines have already formed by this time and will remain after the weed dies. Because lawn burweed is a winter annual, it will begin to die in late spring as air temperatures reach 90 °F. Once the weed has reached a more mature state, multiple herbicide applications may be necessary, which increases the potential for turfgrass injury. Dead or alive, lawn burweed poses a painful problem. The only solution to this is early identification and control.

 

[rufrdr]

I put some down, I suspect my dog ate some of it, next morning she had diarrhea in her crate, the wall, the floor.

 

[kcult]

^Terrific reference site^ and on par with what NCSU Extension USED TO provide. Alas, at some point in last couple years they have gone through (someone did) and remove all the accurate advice and recommendations on chemical control. Sad.

@kcult: https://www.domyown.com/fertilome-broadleaf-weed-control-with-gallery-p-2016.html

Chemical Control​

Post-emergence Control: The key factor to effectively controlling lawn burweed is to apply a post-emergence herbicide during the winter months of December, January, and February. The weed is smaller and easier to control during this time of year and has not yet developed the spine-tipped burs. Control is not impossible in March, April, and May, but the spines have already formed by this time and will remain after the weed dies. Because lawn burweed is a winter annual, it will begin to die in late spring as air temperatures reach 90 °F. Once the weed has reached a more mature state, multiple herbicide applications may be necessary, which increases the potential for turfgrass injury. Dead or alive, lawn burweed poses a painful problem. The only solution to this is early identification and control.

I also have this.

When to Apply Trimec Herbicide | Pepper's Home & Garden

Trimec can be applied any time weeds are visible in your yard and temperatures are 65–85℉ (18–29℃). Apply Trimec at least 24 hours before rain or lawn

peppershomeandgarden.com

I had been using it mostly for ther dandelions, but it looks like it may be useful for the burr weed if I can spray it during the winter months, although it says to try to spray it when it's at least 65° out.

 

[Just Tripp]

I also have this.

When to Apply Trimec Herbicide | Pepper's Home & Garden

Trimec can be applied any time weeds are visible in your yard and temperatures are 65–85℉ (18–29℃). Apply Trimec at least 24 hours before rain or lawn

peppershomeandgarden.com

I had been using it mostly for ther dandelions, but it looks like it may be useful for the burr weed if I can spray it during the winter months, although it says to try to spray it when it's at least 65° out.

One thing to watch out for is if your lawn is centipede. I’ve used Trimec plenty on Bermuda with little or no harm to the turf, but always heard the standard formulation can be injurious to Centipede. I think the Trimec Southern formulation is labeled for centipede and St Augustine.

 

[BASIL]

This stuff be to bougie for me. Haven't put anything in my yard for 20 + years.