PSA pistol goes full auto yesterday

Variable

Variable

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My middle son is a civil engineer who lives in Charlotte He has had many many training classes for all types of firearms. I say this to let you know he is both educated and very savvy when it comes to guns. He had a buddy visiting from the awful country to our north and wanted to take him out shooting to see what freedom smelled like. They decided to go to PSA, and while there he bought an AR pistol. He texted and called me prior to buying but I was busy and couldn't tell him to get over that urge and just shoot the guns he brought. By the time I called him, they were at the range at PSA and going to shoot it. I told him to have fun and hung up. He loaded up some rounds and the first trigger pull spat out 3 rounds. The second trigger pull was 5 rounds and the third got up to seven. Also, it was firing with the trigger finger on the side of the frame. So he pulled the trigger once, finger on goes to the frame and it just kept going - exciting isn't it? He went outside and went to the counter and explained what happened. He said he was told this was "normal" that he was accidentally bump firing it and he should "put a stock on it." My son said he replied, "That would be a felony." The conversation went south from there and got loud and heated. A RO came over to see what the commotion was and did what I would have done if I worked there, he took the gun into the range himself, loaded 6 rounds of store ammo, and pulled the trigger. It dumped all 6 rounds. Now the issue was proven by a third party but they still tried to get him to send the gun to the manufacturer (PSA) to have it fixed - now he literally just bought it from them. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, they refunded the purchase.

I don't know what you would do but I would not want to take that gun home and I sure as hell wouldn't send it to the manufacturer while at the manufacturer. I am not a huge fan of PSA in general, I see them as the Harbor Freight of guns. To me, this is both good and bad. I really want to buy from them based on their ads sometimes, I will admit that but so far I have resisted the urge. I don't know why the twenty-something salesperson argued about the situation and blamed the operator. I realize he doesn't know anything about my son who is a very large and loud individual but still, it seems like poor customer service. Runaway guns are dangerous and obviously not working as one would expect. Has anyone else had a runaway pistol from PSA? What would you do in that situation? What would the AFT say I wonder, if you were at the range and this happened?


V
 
Variable said:
I don't know why the twenty-something salesperson argued about the situation and blamed the operator.
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Because he's a 20-something retail clerk. Not exactly the sharp end of the stick in any industry.

Variable said:
I am not a huge fan of PSA in general, I see them as the Harbor Freight of guns.
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While this experience is certainly a bad one, I wouldn't paint PSA overall with that broad of a brush. They sell a BOAT LOAD of guns and - as with any mass marketer - are bound to have an issue or 2 slip through. My experience with them has always been good. They had growing pains early on with shipping lead times, but those seem to have been worked out. PSA is a generous sponsor of shooting sports and offers good quality/price ratio. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them.

My off-the-shelf PSA upper has been good enough for 1st place finishes in a couple Run n Guns (the Gunnin' part, not the runnin'....) up against high dollar gucci rigs.

So...yes. You (or your kid in this case) had a bad experience. I'd chalk that up to you had A bad experience. It's bound to happen when you push that much volume through.
 
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I had nothing but bad experiences trying to buy guns the 3 times I visited their stores when I was working in SC a couple of years ago.

I'll not be back.

I was very disappointed to realize that the business model, and the personnel working there, were really no different than any other chain/box store. I had hoped for something different.

However, I won't hold those issues against the manufacturing and online sector of the PSA name. I appreciate what they do.
 
thrillhill said:
However, I won't hold those issues against the manufacturing and online sector of the PSA name. I appreciate what they do.
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to be fair, my experience has only been with their on-line stores.
 
Variable said:
I don't know what you would do but I would not want to take that gun home and I sure as hell wouldn't send it to the manufacturer while at the manufacturer.
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It would be somewhat surprising if PSA retail stores were part of the same (licensed) legal entity that manufactures PSA's firearms. So, no, he was probably not at the "manufacturer" and the retail store probably lacked the legal ability to do things like replace defective firearms that licensed manufacturers can do.
 
Their AR15's have been good to go for me. My home defense gun is one of their uppers with a FN bbl. Now their 1st Gen AR10 or PA10 or whatever they call it was and is a POS. Their CS for E sales at least for me has always sucked. I had an brand X, AR15 one time that had a Forest Gump trigger. You never knew what you were going to get. I replaced the trigger group and it was G2G.
 
PSA's QC part verification and assembly procedures strikes again. They literally have no QC procedures for part verification or assembly.
One gets the luck of the draw with a minimum wage employee/assembler.

There is a reason they are priced low and this incident reflects that on various levels.
 
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Tim said:
It's bound to happen when you push that much volume through.
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Big Volumes with 0 parts QC verification or Assembly QC...

If they would spend some money on a dedicated QC dept. with experienced QC employees and experienced assemblers following dedicated QC protocols, this would be a non-issue.
 
Their new SABER line of rifles look visually stunning though. Especially the ones with A4 stocks and FSB’s. Of course, I’d much rather spend the same amount of money on something more reliable like a BCM upper + Aero lower.
 
Hashknife said:
PSA's QC part verification and assembly procedures strikes again. They literally have no QC procedures for part verification or assembly.
One gets the luck of the draw with a minimum wage employee/assembler.

There is a reason they are priced low and this incident reflects that on various levels.
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So you've been in their factory to confirm they have no qc dept?
 
wired said:
A number of things could have happened that have nothing to do with the assembly. sear surfaces break off.
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True.
If the gun would have been test/proof fired with 3-5 rounds prior to leaving the "factory", this would have been caught before going to a consumer.
Other large volume manufacturers do this as a protocol of their QC.
 
wired said:
A number of things could have happened that have nothing to do with the assembly. sear surfaces break off.
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Had that happen years ago while shooting friends AR. I noticed multiple rounds per trigger pull. I had fun but he was terrified. That may have been my fault though. I might not have let him know there was a problem in the best way.

Me, hey buddy I think there is an problem with your AR

Buddy, Like what?

Me, BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT

Buddy, WTF DID YOU DO!!!!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

ME, Pulled the trigger 😘
 
That just sounds like bad customer service and employees who think they are smarter than customers.

Personally, I wouldn't have said anything. I'd have taken it home and tinkered with it.

If it'll shoot 7 rounds right out of the box, I might could get it to shoot 30! 😄
 
I recall an article in Guns & Ammo around 20 years ago, the FFL would always check a firearm before calling the customer to pick it up.
He had a Ruger Mk pistol .22 go full auto, he lost part of a finger from that gun, a S&W revolver was shipped with a smooth barrel!
When I get a new firearm I try one round, then two, then three, then a full magazine.
Edit: The S&W was made years ago when the line was paid by the piece, good, bad or ugly you got paid.
That has changed when ownership was brought back to the USA.
 
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Button Pusher said:
I recall an article in Guns & Ammo around 20 years ago, the FFL would always check a firearm before calling the customer to pick it up.
He had a Ruger .22 go full auto, he lost part of a finger from that gun, a S&W revolver was shipped with a smooth barrel!
When I get a new firearm I try one round, then two then three, then a full magazine.
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Guns are like a box of chocolates... You never know what you're gonna get.

Hopefully you don't get an injury. 🤣
 
Catfish said:
How about: 'If you don't refund this POS Right-TF Now I'm calling the ATF and telling them you sold me an unregistered machine gun over-the-counter'
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Thankfully, they did not have to call EMS to respond to innocent gunshot victims of a run-away gun
 
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Button Pusher said:
The pistol never left their building, they had no choice to take it back. Agree that they would not like a visit from the ATF.
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PSA store should take it back and exchange for another, or refund the $$... Definately dont want a retail cashier , or retail employees fixing gun issues
 
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wired said:
Its just a FCG issue. Change the FCG. This isn't that big of a problem.
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I agree with you, but...

Replacing with more parts that have not been verified with a QC protocol, by a retail employee.. is not a big problem for you, but a big liability for PSA if anything goes south.
PSA doesnt make the FCG parts... They buy them in bulk, pour them into parts bins and never verify what they got.

Larue, DD, Colt, BCM, LWRC, Knights all buy from the same FCG vendor as PSA.
The difference is those companies have invested in QC tooling to verify each part from the vendor prior to acceptance and installation. This costs more and takes a bit more time to do, but it keeps their products from having issues such as the OP describes and keeps warranty issues to a bare minimum. It also lowers liability if something should happen because each part is documented.


A similar QC "example" is this...

NASCAR teams use spark plugs from a few name brand spark plug companies. They do not make them in-house.
Do you think they gap and install them right out of the box... No, they do not. They have a dedicated QC employee that inspects EVERY plug ( and washer) to in-house QC protocols.
If a plug does not pass QC, it is returned and exchanged for another plug. This eliminates issues on the race track when the big $$ is on the line.
 
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Hashknife said:
I agree with you, but...

Replacing with more parts that have not been verified with a QC protocol, by a retail employee.. is not a big problem for you, but a big liability for PSA if anything goes south.
PSA doesnt make the FCG parts... They buy them in bulk, pour them into parts bins and never verify what they got.

Larue, DD, Colt, BCM, LWRC, Knights all buy from the same FCG vendor as PSA.
The difference is those companies have invested in QC tooling to verify each part from the vendor prior to acceptance and installation. This costs more and takes a bit more time to do, but it keeps their products from having issues such as the OP describes and keeps warranty issues to a bare minimum. It also lowers liability if something should happen because each part is documented.


A similar QC "example" is this...

NASCAR teams use spark plugs from a few name brand spark plug companies. They do not make them in-house.
Do you think they gap and install them right out of the box... No, they do not. They have a dedicated QC employee that inspects EVERY plug ( and washer) to in-house QC protocols.
If a plug does not pass QC, it is returned and exchanged for another plug. This eliminates issues on the race track when the big $$ is on the line.
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Yes and it costs them 40 dollars a spark plug to get them in the engine. When you buy a cheap product because it’s cheap you expect some teething pains. It’s part of being realistic with your expectations
 
It actually costs them nothing... They are given the plugs for free in exchange for advertising... The QC employee(s) are checking plugs, piston rings, etc, etc as they come in the door. The QC dept and employees wages are already factored into C.O.B.
 
Fullboost21 said:
I'm not certain on the others, but I'm pretty sure that Larue makes thier mbt triggers in house.
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They do now. They pulled mfg and QC in-house to have full control and traceability. And the machines that make them are part of the QC process. During machining, parts are in-process inspected via CMM touch probing capabilities built into the machining center. Those machines cost more that the "average" CNC machining center, but they drop "in-spec" parts off pretty much ready to go.

They also do their own in-house grinding and heat treat.

The parts are also verified on QC gage tooling at assembly stations prior to installation.

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Hashknife said:
It actually costs them nothing... They are given the plugs for free in exchange for advertising... The QC employee(s) are checking plugs, piston rings, etc, etc as they come in the door. The QC dept and employees wages are already factored into C.O.B.
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Well PSA doesn't get their parts for free and you dont get them from PSA for free but you do pay less than you would other places. Welcome to the world of Value Engineering.
 
wired said:
Well PSA doesn't get their parts for free and you dont get them from PSA for free but you do pay less than you would other places. Welcome to the world of Value Engineering.
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You pay less for PSA because they do less...
 
Should have bought 1k rounds and rented it out to folks on the range and told them I just bought this at the counter. They would have sold a bunch more and had pissed off customers because it didn’t shoot like the other guys.

Lol

Just kidding, I’m glad nobody got hurt and all ended well.

I know of a radian that did the same thing. Ended up back at radian and another rifle was sent back…
 
People would be surprised how much higher quality psa is than the "high end" brands. They've pretty much bought every decent parts manufacturer on this side of the country in the last decade.

Anyway years ago with a 24" barrel bushmaster was shooting 200 yds when it started doing the same thing. The hammer pin had walked out of the lower on one side, allowing the disconnector to hold long enough for the bolt to slam home then dropping the hammer and going full auto. Was a pretty simple fix.
I'd have been more interested in pulling the upper off at the range and seeing what was up than trying to reason with any sales counter guys for sure.
 
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