Safeties...

Millie

Get on with your life!!!
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Give me an instant and understandable education, remembering I'm new. Articles on the web don't necessarily explain things well.
What are the basics I need to know before buying the next gun.
My revolver has one of those Taurus keys...my idea of a safety is just keep a chamber empty.
 
Give me an instant and understandable education, remembering I'm new. Articles on the web don't necessarily explain things well.
What are the basics I need to know before buying the next gun.
My revolver has one of those Taurus keys...my idea of a safety is just keep a chamber empty.



Best safety on any firearm is between your ears.

That being said a key is not a safety. It is to keep others from firing your firearm. You would not want to lock a carry gun and then need to use the key to fire it in a bad situation.

Empty chamber on a revolver is fine if that is what you want to do. Some revolvers now have a transfer bar which is supposed to prevent it being fired by being dropped. But like any mechanical device it can fail(refer back to the first line of this post).

My truck gun is a semi auto that is double action hammer fired. It has a pretty long trigger pull so I keep the chamber loaded and the safety off. Others will cry foul on that one but it is what I choose.

At the end of the day what works best for you is whatever you feel works best for you.
 
Best safety on any firearm is between your ears.

That being said a key is not a safety. It is to keep others from firing your firearm. You would not want to lock a carry gun and then need to use the key to fire it in a bad situation.

Empty chamber on a revolver is fine if that is what you want to do. Some revolvers now have a transfer bar which is supposed to prevent it being fired by being dropped. But like any mechanical device it can fail(refer back to the first line of this post).

My truck gun is a semi auto that is double action hammer fired. It has a pretty long trigger pull so I keep the chamber loaded and the safety off. Others will cry foul on that one but it is what I choose.

At the end of the day what works best for you is whatever you feel works best for you.
Yes, the key would not be engaged if I was carrying the gun. Lol. It gets used when I'm not home and the gun is hidden. Since I don't get out much, I keep the revolver in one of the other rooms in the house, loaded with an empty chamber. But now that I've applied for CC permit, my .380 goes with me around the house, to get used to having it on my person. (,It used to live in my purse pretty much.)
 
Yikes. Practice. And whatever you feel comfortable with, before, during, and after training. Always keep one in the chamber, and always keep the cylinder full. If the only way to make that happen is a safety, then there's your answer. Keep a round ready, train beyond the safety. Better than racking.

Never had a gun with a manual safety, never had a problem. Same with close friends.
Sure, a safety has its place but it's not on my guns.
 
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Since I don't get out much, I keep the revolver in one of the other rooms in the house, loaded with an empty chamber


There's no need for an empty chamber with a modern double action revolver. They either have a transfer bar...like the Rugers...that moves up between the hammer and the firing pin when the trigger moves rearward, or a rebounding hammer and a hammer block...like the Smith & Wessons...that moves up between hammer and frame when the trigger is forward.

Older single actions...like the Smith & Wesson Schofield and Colt 1873 SAA and their faithful reproductions and clones should be carried with an empty chamber under the hammer.
 
The key is more of a locking device for storage if you don't have a safe or such to keep them in. While UNLOADED, you can cock the hammer back on your Taurus...…. then look towards the bottom of the slot where the hammer rests. You should see a small square piece....pull the trigger rearward. Just before the hammer should break you should see the little square piece fall down. That's their safety....unless the trigger is pulled fully rearward, the gun should not fire. So.....just keep it in a holster or something that covers the trigger, and you should be good to go.

Like said above, most modern revolvers have some type of similar safety. There are a few exceptions I think.....such as a reproduction of an older revolver may not have them or the NAA mini revolvers, I don't think they have a safety either.
 
The key is more of a locking device for storage if you don't have a safe or such to keep them in. While UNLOADED, you can cock the hammer back on your Taurus...…. then look towards the bottom of the slot where the hammer rests. You should see a small square piece....pull the trigger rearward. Just before the hammer should break you should see the little square piece fall down. That's their safety....unless the trigger is pulled fully rearward, the gun should not fire. So.....just keep it in a holster or something that covers the trigger, and you should be good to go.

Like said above, most modern revolvers have some type of similar safety. There are a few exceptions I think.....such as a reproduction of an older revolver may not have them or the NAA mini revolvers, I don't think they have a safety either.
I'll check the Taurus today and see what I see...UNLOADED, of course!
(I do love my Taurus! Once I find a range, I'm going to really work with it, so I can shoot it without getting bruised again!)
My holsters all cover the trigger/guard. One has a strap on it to hold the gun in.
 
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This is worth a watch....

I love that guy!
When I shot my revolver in my CC class I was pretty freaked out anyway, so my hands were well away from the gaps! I had seen videos of slow motion shots from revolvers, and that was cool but scary. I never imagined my thumb would take a hit from the grip....
 
As a new shooter I do want to give you a warning about safeties. They do not make a firearm safe. They are only an additional safeguard that makes one less likely to fire negligently. Think of them more like a safety belt in a car. Getting in a crash is still dangerous. It doesn’t magically make you immune from harm.

The main reason I say this is that putting too much faith in a safety can be dangerous. It can lead to complacency when handling the firearm because “oh, the guns safe I have the safety on.”

I don’t mean to imply that a safety can’t be useful, or is a bad thing to have. Just try not to put too much faith in them to protect you. As was said above, the safety is located between your ears and comes through being diligent in practicing safe gun handling practices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
As a new shooter I do want to give you a warning about safeties. They do not make a firearm safe. They are only an additional safeguard that makes one less likely to fire negligently. Think of them more like a safety belt in a car. Getting in a crash is still dangerous. It doesn’t magically make you immune from harm.

The main reason I say this is that putting too much faith in a safety can be dangerous. It can lead to complacency when handling the firearm because “oh, the guns safe I have the safety on.”

I don’t mean to imply that a safety can’t be useful, or is a bad thing to have. Just try not to put too much faith in them to protect you. As was said above, the safety is located between your ears and comes through being diligent in practicing safe gun handling practices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As in the 4 rules of guns on Cornered Cat site!
 
By some estimates, 60-70% of police officers carry Glocks. That means there are perhaps 400,000 to 500,000 police officers carrying guns with no external safeties, except the trigger bar safety. NDs happen, but are rare.

I am also relatively new to pistols, although I've been shooting some IDPA for more than a year and training with various pistols. If I were advising you, I would not want you to get a gun with an external safety. At least not at first. If self-defense is your priority, until you are well trained, I'd want to see you with a gun you can draw, or pick up, and start pulling the trigger.

I've been using the short IDPA classifier occasionally for training. At least twice lately, I've forgotten to take the safety off my CZ 75 SP-o1 during one of the strings. You can only imagine my confusion as I pull the trigger several times before I realized what was wrong. Time pressure causes some amazing delays in recognition and perception. Add the stress of someone trying to hurt you, plus the stress of deciding whether to shoot or not.
 
By some estimates, 60-70% of police officers carry Glocks. That means there are perhaps 400,000 to 500,000 police officers carrying guns with no external safeties, except the trigger bar safety. NDs happen, but are rare.

I am also relatively new to pistols, although I've been shooting some IDPA for more than a year and training with various pistols. If I were advising you, I would not want you to get a gun with an external safety. At least not at first. If self-defense is your priority, until you are well trained, I'd want to see you with a gun you can draw, or pick up, and start pulling the trigger.

I've been using the short IDPA classifier occasionally for training. At least twice lately, I've forgotten to take the safety off my CZ 75 SP-o1 during one of the strings. You can only imagine my confusion as I pull the trigger several times before I realized what was wrong. Time pressure causes some amazing delays in recognition and perception. Add the stress of someone trying to hurt you, plus the stress of deciding whether to shoot or not.
Good point about being in a stressed out situation and having to deal with that AND also making the call on firing!
 
I carry a shield with a safety every day.

But when the pistol goes in my holster the safety goes off.

The only time I put the Safety on is before I remove the firearm to use the restroom or to change at the gym and put it in my gym bag (still in the holster but since I won’t have direct control of it I prefer the safety engaged).

I look at a safety like a parking break on a car if that makes sense. It’s only on when I’m parking the car for an additional bit of peace of mind since I won’t have direct control of the car.
 
I carry a shield with a safety every day.

But when the pistol goes in my holster the safety goes off.

The only time I put the Safety on is before I remove the firearm to use the restroom or to change at the gym and put it in my gym bag (still in the holster but since I won’t have direct control of it I prefer the safety engaged).

I look at a safety like a parking break on a car if that makes sense. It’s only on when I’m parking the car for an additional bit of peace of mind since I won’t have direct control of the car.

The Shield safety would not be an easy one to engage accidentally. But just imagine drawing the gun expecting the safety to be off, and somehow it had become engaged, and you needed to use the gun under stress. Look at the safety on a full-size M&P. I can see it becoming engaged inadvertently pretty easily. And if your right thumb is naturally placed beneath the disengaged safety, it's not beyond the realm of possibility to accidentally engage it while drawing or shooting.

To each his or her own on this issue. If you're going to carry a gun with an external safety, learn to use it well. Train with it a lot. And train that if you pull the trigger and nothing happens, take the safety off - whether it was supposed to be engaged or not.
 
my wife freaked when I bought her an LCR without a safety. Once and while when we are at the range I will hand her my Shield with the safety on (I carry with the safety off and one in the pipe). When she goes to squeeze off a shot the gun does not fire and this is when I remind here that unless you train with a safety you will need to pull the trigger and nothing will go boom. as stated above best safety is between your ears.
 
I’ll beat this drum...
A safety does not make your gun safe, you do.

If you choose a gun that has a safety, train with it.
If you choose a gun without a safety train with it.

I don’t think there are any real pros or cons to safeties that make them a factor in choosing a gun. If it gives you confidence to have one, then by all means go for it.

Exceptions to that might be poorly designed examples.
The Shield safety is so small I miss it with my thumb. I still carry it but I don’t like that feature.
I’ve never liked slide mounted safeties or versions that sweep up to fire.
Those are personal preferences though
 
I want to add something on training with a safety. It doesn’t make you proficient under stress which is why I don’t carry with one engaged.

I originally bought the shield as a backup when I was doing EP work. To be able to carry it while working I had to qualify with it on the police course.

I trained with it every day at home for a month, drawing, thumbing the safety off and pulling the trigger. I did that for at least and hour every night.

Then I did several days at the range with it.

The day of I ran through a few drills before the test.

Came to the line for the test, went through in my head “draw, thumb off the safety, present etc”.

At the threat command my brain went into time mode. I drew, presented, pulled the trigger annnnnnd nothing. I pulled again and only then did I realize I forgot to take off the safety.

Since it was the first evolution he let me run it again. This time the safety was off and stayed off.
 
I want to add something on training with a safety. It doesn’t make you proficient under stress which is why I don’t carry with one engaged.

I originally bought the shield as a backup when I was doing EP work. To be able to carry it while working I had to qualify with it on the police course.

I trained with it every day at home for a month, drawing, thumbing the safety off and pulling the trigger. I did that for at least and hour every night.

Then I did several days at the range with it.

The day of I ran through a few drills before the test.

Came to the line for the test, went through in my head “draw, thumb off the safety, present etc”.

At the threat command my brain went into time mode. I drew, presented, pulled the trigger annnnnnd nothing. I pulled again and only then did I realize I forgot to take off the safety.

Since it was the first evolution he let me run it again. This time the safety was off and stayed off.
I can see the safety being just one more detail a person's brain would have to remember under stress....which you certainly would be if threatened!
You guys always give me such good info. It's fine to read definitions of stuff online, but here I get real life experiences! It's great, and I appreciate you all taking the time to respond to my endless questions!
 
I can see the safety being just one more detail a person's brain would have to remember under stress....which you certainly would be if threatened!
You guys always give me such good info. It's fine to read definitions of stuff online, but here I get real life experiences! It's great, and I appreciate you all taking the time to respond to my endless questions!

It’s one of the better values of this forum. We are from all walks of life and all professions. From banking, education, law enforcement, military, hair dressing, you name it. And we all carry different experiences and what works and doesn’t work.

On top of that, most all of us have gone through the same, or similar learning curves as you are now. Years ago I swore of Glocks because they “didn’t have a safety”. Then I learned a bit more, and now years later I carried a Glock exclusively for a few years. I’ve moved on to a different platform that is similar, but also has no “external safety”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
A safety is a mechanical device, manually positioned by the operator, which serves to block the firing mechanism of the weapon by some means such that pulling, or attempting to pull, the trigger will not cause the weapon to fire.

It may block the trigger from being pulled, block the hammer from striking the firing pin, disengage the firing pin, or any other similar function.

The key here is that it is MANUALLY operated by the operator of the weapon, not a passive device inherent in the design. (That would be more of an interlock, not a safety.)

(Sorry, Glock fans...but the vaunted "Glock safety" is NOT a "safety".)

Since a manual safety is something manually operated, this means you need to realize that YOU, in fact, are the "safety" because it's YOUR responsibility to understand and operate the manual safety.

Back that up one more notch and take a look at the "4 rules". You'll note that NOTHING in there talkes about "a safety". Rather, it talks about the safe practices YOU must follow in order to handle a firearm safely. Which, again, means YOU are the "safety".
 
A safety is a mechanical device, manually positioned by the operator, which serves to block the firing mechanism of the weapon by some means such that pulling, or attempting to pull, the trigger will not cause the weapon to fire.

It may block the trigger from being pulled, block the hammer from striking the firing pin, disengage the firing pin, or any other similar function.

The key here is that it is MANUALLY operated by the operator of the weapon, not a passive device inherent in the design. (That would be more of an interlock, not a safety.)

(Sorry, Glock fans...but the vaunted "Glock safety" is NOT a "safety".)

Since a manual safety is something manually operated, this means you need to realize that YOU, in fact, are the "safety" because it's YOUR responsibility to understand and operate the manual safety.

Back that up one more notch and take a look at the "4 rules". You'll note that NOTHING in there talkes about "a safety". Rather, it talks about the safe practices YOU must follow in order to handle a firearm safely. Which, again, means YOU are the "safety".
I AM!
 
Millie, you need to get here as fast as your feet will carry you....or somewhere.....to somebody. You desperately need to find help for even the basics. This carrying without a round up in a revolver is backward thinking from 50 years ago. I'm not trying to be rude but you need lotsa help....soon.
 
I pocket carry often, and feel much better with an external safety for that application. This is only for a striker fired pistol though. Hammer fired triggers are much harder to engage and perform the safety function well. But just a few pounds of pressure can light-off a striker fired trigger. I'm very active and it's not uncommon for me to be bumping around like a dude, and I don't want a striker fired gun getting knocked by something when it's in my pocket. KaPow. Ouch.
None of my owb carry guns have an external safety, but my holsters cover the trigger loop completely and I'm comfortable with that. So do my pocket holsters, but unlike my owb holsters they are soft materials and though unlikely, it's quite possible for a trigger to get manipulated through the holster.

I don't care for grip safety's, such as found on 1911's and Springfield XD models. John Browning did not design the grip safety on the 1911 because he thought it was a great idea, it's what his sought-after government contract at the time required. He famously considered his High Power design to be much better, without a grip safety.
However, this is a highly personal preference, and the 1911..with it's grip safety..is an American legend and should remain that way.

Some guys are never external safety's ever, and others are external safety's always. For me, the application and intended use of the firearm dictates whether or not an external safety is necessary.

Millie, you need to get here as fast as your feet will carry you....or somewhere.....to somebody. You desperately need to find help for even the basics. This carrying without a round up in a revolver is backward thinking from 50 years ago. I'm not trying to be rude but you need lotsa help....soon.
I agree entirely. If you lived near the mountains I would say the same thing about coming to my range. You would benefit the most from an atmosphere of comfort and knowledge without any bias or pressure.
 
The key is more of a locking device for storage if you don't have a safe or such to keep them in. While UNLOADED, you can cock the hammer back on your Taurus...…. then look towards the bottom of the slot where the hammer rests. You should see a small square piece....pull the trigger rearward. Just before the hammer should break you should see the little square piece fall down. That's their safety....unless the trigger is pulled fully rearward, the gun should not fire. So.....just keep it in a holster or something that covers the trigger, and you should be good to go.

Like said above, most modern revolvers have some type of similar safety. There are a few exceptions I think.....such as a reproduction of an older revolver may not have them or the NAA mini revolvers, I don't think they have a safety either.
Ok I've been peering down the slot while pulling the hammer back....I only see a square piece on a stick, like a little metal flag, it's right where the hammer will land when the trigger is pulled. I only see the rest of the hammer leading down to where it connects, nothing about a little falling metal piece in the slot. I've made my thumb sore pulling the hammer back, so I'm thinking my gun must be different? Lol.
But in any case...I'M the safety!!!!
 
Millie, you need to get here as fast as your feet will carry you....or somewhere.....to somebody. You desperately need to find help for even the basics. This carrying without a round up in a revolver is backward thinking from 50 years ago. I'm not trying to be rude but you need lotsa help....soon.
Well, I'm not carrying the revolver, but I get your point!
I'm TRYING to get help. I've now emailed Jim's in Fayetteville to ask for help. This was yesterday. Haven't checked the mail since I got up.
I'm trying to get an instructor to help me. It's the closest place to my house with a range and rental guns and instructors.
What else am I supposed to do without driving to places far away that I've never been to, man? I'm directionally challenged, got lost in Fayetteville, but at least I've been there before. Lol.
I'm not taking this as you being rude, but I'm trying!!!!!
 
Ok I've been peering down the slot while pulling the hammer back....I only see a square piece on a stick, like a little metal flag, it's right where the hammer will land when the trigger is pulled. I only see the rest of the hammer leading down to where it connects, nothing about a little falling metal piece in the slot. I've made my thumb sore pulling the hammer back, so I'm thinking my gun must be different? Lol.
But in any case...I'M the safety!!!!

It's called a "transfer bar", Millie.

Google "revolver transfer bar system" and look at some pictures. You'll see.
 
It's called a "transfer bar", Millie.

Google "revolver transfer bar system" and look at some pictures. You'll see.
Ok, thanks.
That will be more fun than trying to figure out how to get to this range far away! Lol.
EDIT Ok, I get it! The metal "flag" is it! From the response I was reading, it seemed like the piece was supposed to fall down. I misread it.
Thanks for giving me the name to google, it was very helpful. I'm a visual learner.
PS. You guys must think I'm SUCH a moron!
 
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I pocket carry often, and feel much better with an external safety for that application. This is only for a striker fired pistol though. Hammer fired triggers are much harder to engage and perform the safety function well. But just a few pounds of pressure can light-off a striker fired trigger. I'm very active and it's not uncommon for me to be bumping around like a dude, and I don't want a striker fired gun getting knocked by something when it's in my pocket. KaPow. Ouch.
None of my owb carry guns have an external safety, but my holsters cover the trigger loop completely and I'm comfortable with that. So do my pocket holsters, but unlike my owb holsters they are soft materials and though unlikely, it's quite possible for a trigger to get manipulated through the holster.

I don't care for grip safety's, such as found on 1911's and Springfield XD models. John Browning did not design the grip safety on the 1911 because he thought it was a great idea, it's what his sought-after government contract at the time required. He famously considered his High Power design to be much better, without a grip safety.
However, this is a highly personal preference, and the 1911..with it's grip safety..is an American legend and should remain that way.

Some guys are never external safety's ever, and others are external safety's always. For me, the application and intended use of the firearm dictates whether or not an external safety is necessary.


I agree entirely. If you lived near the mountains I would say the same thing about coming to my range. You would benefit the most from an atmosphere of comfort and knowledge without any bias or pressure.
I'm still trying to make things work out to get help at Jim's in Fayetteville. If they don't come thru, I'm going to have to travel I guess.
 
You know what my wife tells me whenever I say "I'm trying"?

"You're trying, all right. VERY trying!"

:D:D:D

Don't worry, Millie...we understand!

:):)
Some think I'm a moron! It's ok.
I'm actually quite bright, just not about this...yet. Just doing the best I can within my limitations.
 
Ok, thanks.
That will be more fun than trying to figure out how to get to this range far away! Lol.
EDIT Ok, I get it! The metal "flag" is it! From the response I was reading, it seemed like the piece was supposed to fall down. I misread it.
Thanks for giving me the name to google, it was very helpful. I'm a visual learner.
PS. You guys must think I'm SUCH a moron!


Absolutely not. You are doing your best to learn. That is the best anyone can do. If you were ignorant (and we all are ignorant about something cause no one knows it all) and not trying to learn then you would be a moron. Keep up the good work and you will get there.
 
Your Taurus is similar to this S&W revolver, Larry shows us how it works.
The next video shows the correct way to handle the revolver to load it.


 
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Well, I'm not carrying the revolver, but I get your point!
I'm TRYING to get help. I've now emailed Jim's in Fayetteville to ask for help. This was yesterday. Haven't checked the mail since I got up.
I'm trying to get an instructor to help me. It's the closest place to my house with a range and rental guns and instructors.
What else am I supposed to do without driving to places far away that I've never been to, man? I'm directionally challenged, got lost in Fayetteville, but at least I've been there before. Lol.
I'm not taking this as you being rude, but I'm trying!!!!!
We absolutely understand, and we sure don't mean any disrespect. :) I think you see that most everyone here is happy to help, and actually anxious to do so.
But there's only so far we can help you with the written word. And I totally relate to not wanna have to drive that far. I often tell people that you gotta drag me off the mountain. I love where I am and you have to pry me away from it.

But if someone told me that there are 4 one hundred dollar bills in an envelope waiting for me 90 minutes away at @BatteryOaksBilly range, and all I had to do was drive there and get it, you bet your butt I would find a way do it.
To hire an extremely experienced person with all manner of firearms to try, with supplied ammo, at a private range with just you, with all day to ask any questions you want and not get ridiculed, with safety being the #1 concern and fun & knowledge being the 2nd, $400 would be a cheap price to pay.
And if you forgot something, that person is just a phone call away..even on a Sunday.
Let me tell ya something there girlfriend...most new shooters would kill for an opportunity like that.

When I get new shooters at my place, the number one reason they tell me why they didn't get started sooner was they had no place to go where they felt comfortable. And when they get here they just about can't contain themselves. They're finally getting to do it! They're like kids, and their enthusiasm rubs off on me and I remember when I was in their shoes.
Of course it helps that I'm so handsome, charming, smart as a book, and modest. :rolleyes:

Ok now girl...get-on with your bad self and go take the bull by the horns. Be sure to take lots of pictures and share, and it's ok to tell us how Billy was a total cracker and loon since we all know that already.
 
Ok, thanks.
That will be more fun than trying to figure out how to get to this range far away! Lol.
EDIT Ok, I get it! The metal "flag" is it! From the response I was reading, it seemed like the piece was supposed to fall down. I misread it.
Thanks for giving me the name to google, it was very helpful. I'm a visual learner.
PS. You guys must think I'm SUCH a moron!
Not at all...some of this stuff is just new to you. I may have had it backwards....the transfer bar might go up, not down. Dislexia........
 
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