SBR to pistol back to SBR

Gear Head

Gear Head

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Please weigh in. Dude says it's legal and provided a FAQ from ATF website but it contradicts everything I've seen on the topic. I have a pending form 1 so I'm curious.

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You're not going to find the answer in writing anywhere. I'll spell out the two sides of the argument.

1. Yes you can do it. The ATF (in the Thompson Center ruling, and things like the FAQ above) has said you can go from pistol -> rifle -> pistol as long as you don't configure it as an illegal SBR in the process. SBRs are a subset of rifles, so therefore if pistol -> rifle -> pistol is legal, then it stands to reason that pistol -> SBR -> pistol is legal. The assumption is the firearm starts life as a pistol.

2. No you can't do it. When you file a Form 1, you are making a new firearm...hence the title of the form (Application to Make and Register...). And that new firearm, by definition, is a Short Barreled Rifle. Doesn't matter if you're starting with an 80% lower or an existing firearm and adopting the serial number. You're still making a new firearm (and engraving it as maker). So, since it starts as a rifle, it can't be converted to a pistol. If you remove the stock, you don't have a pistol...you have a weapon made from a rifle, which is an SBR.

So, that's the two sides. I see the logic in both. The "safe" answer is #2...but that doesn't make it the right answer, it just guarantees you're not in the wrong.

I've seen one email response from Gary S @ NFA Division that said it was OK. But that's all the "put it in writing" I've ever found.
 
JRHorne said:
Is it an AR? If so, why not just build a second pistol lower?
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I am. I was just legitimately curious since this dude seemed so sure of himself. I did just order an SBA3 so if this is legal I could just pop the stock off and the brace on if I wanted.
 
I posted this on another thread about the same thing recently, but the ATF NFA FAQ used to have a page that specifically answered this question, and the answer was yes.

However, they have since taken that page down.

You can still find it in the Google archive IIRC.

This begs the question, why did they remove that from the FAQ? Did they change their mind? I don't know.

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What really begs the question is, how are they ever going to know unless you are doing something really stupid?

This reminds me of those old laws that say things like oral sex is illegal or heck, even homosexual sex is illegal. Unless an cop busted in on you in the act, there is no way to ever know.

I have an AR pistol. If I toss a 16inch upper on it for a while it isn’t like an alarm starts going off and the ATF gets a bat signal. I have never seen, not heard of an ATF agent showing up at any shooting event checking serial numbers and busting people for pistol lowers on rifle uppers.

I get the paranoia from people, I really do, because the laws are so stupid and come with pretty stiff penalties. I suffer from it too. It’s just ridiculous we all have to deal with this garbage.


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Agree on both points and this is so indicative of the law and legal process in general. The judicial system is the real 50 shades of gray.

Just be smart and considerate and I think you'll be fine.

Just looked at the new "brace" co-developed by Q and SB tactical for the Honey Badger pistol. Looks amazing and I think I'll have to have one!
 
mig1nc said:
I posted this on another thread about the same thing recently, but the ATF NFA FAQ used to have a page that specifically answered this question, and the answer was yes.

However, they have since taken that page down.

You can still find it in the Google archive IIRC.

This begs the question, why did they remove that from the FAQ? Did they change their mind? I don't know.
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I don't think I've ever seen that in their FAQ. I have a copy of most of the old ones (before they got rid of most of them to the current version). I'd like to see it if you find it.
 
BigWaylon said:
I don't think I've ever seen that in their FAQ. I have a copy of most of the old ones (before they got rid of most of them to the current version). I'd like to see it if you find it.
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Will do.

You know, this question comes up often enough I think I may write them a letter and post their response.

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mig1nc said:
Will do.
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I have copies of the ones that say SBR to R to SBR and SBS to S to SBS are fine...just don't remember a FAQ that involved SBR/pistol.
 
mig1nc said:
You know, this question comes up often enough I think I may write them a letter and post their response.
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As you can imagine, this question gets asked often on ARF. FWIW...one guy just posted up an email reply he got them the ATF:

I have been emailing the NFA for weeks and weeks on end and they finally sent me a message back!

[email protected]
9:15 AM (8 minutes ago)
to me
Good afternoon,

If you start out with a pistol, convert it into a SBR and then subsequently remove the feature that made in an NFA firearm then you have removed it from the purview of the NFA. Please be aware of constructive possession laws though.

David

From: Nathan C
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 12:10 PM
To: NFA
Subject: Rules interpretation for SBR conversion to Pistol

Good Afternoon,

I have a question regarding a few Short Barreled Rifles I have registered in accordance with the NFA ATF laws. All of these platforms either started as a pistol or blank (non assigned lower) before conversion and registration as an SBR. All of these SBR's I have also briefly saw time as "pistols".

My question is regarding the conversion of SBR to a Pistol. If I take my SBR and remove the stock, does this now become a Pistol that I can transport across state lines provided my use of said firearm remains in a pistol configuration?

It is my understanding that if I take my SBR lower and replace the upper with a barrel longer than 16'' it becomes a normal rifle as it is no longer in an NFA configuration. Does the same apply to the buttstock aspect of the SBR?

Thanks,

Nathan

Now, that email holds as much legal weight as toilet paper, but it's the second time I've seen an email say it was ok.
 
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