School me: Anticipating SBR delivery next week

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cjkgt97

Honorable people's rifle make bang. Za zdorovje!
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So, with the help of several of you fine people on the previous site, I was able to secure my stamp and assemble a kit to make an SBR-nikov. The builder will deliver it to me sometime next week.

I did some cursory reading at the time of application, regarding transporting the rifle etc. I know when you take it to the range, it requires a copy of the stamp to accompany the rifle. Has anyone ever determined, since the stamps are now issued electronically, if having a saved copy of the PDF on an accompanying electronic device is an acceptable way to produce the stamp?

Transport declarations are only required if you cross state lines, correct?

Thanks!
 
cjkgt97 said:
I did some cursory reading at the time of application, regarding transporting the rifle etc. I know when you take it to the range, it requires a copy of the stamp to accompany the rifle. Has anyone ever determined, since the stamps are now issued electronically, if having a saved copy of the PDF on an accompanying electronic device is an acceptable way to produce the stamp?

Transport declarations are only required if you cross state lines, correct?

Thanks!
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Are you asking if the range itself requires documentation, or that having an SBR requires the documentation for transport? Just having it in-state doesn't require documentation for travel to and fro.

I know @BigWaylon uses electronic copies of stamps on his phone.

Like Don said, the ATF and the IRS (since they're tax documents) can demand the forms, but if local LEO requires proof and you stonewall them, it might be ugly for you until it gets straightened out. BUT, what can you do if you don't have a copy? "Officer, I would love to prove it to you, but my documents are at home in my safe. If you'd like to follow me to my house, I'd show them to you" I rarely carry a copy, and that's only when I go out of state, and it's a COPY. For out of state travel with an SBR, you need an approved 5320.20, so if you're planning a trip out of state and you want to take the rifle, submit it soon. They're good for a year. BigWaylon submits them en masse for approval.

I have had suppressors for 7+ years and never been asked for a stamp for proof.
 
11B CIB said:
Are you asking if the range itself requires documentation, or that having an SBR requires the documentation for transport? Just having it in-state doesn't require documentation for travel to and fro.

I know @BigWaylon uses electronic copies of stamps on his phone.

Like Don said, the ATF and the IRS (since they're tax documents) can demand the forms, but if local LEO requires proof and you stonewall them, it might be ugly for you until it gets straightened out. BUT, what can you do if you don't have a copy? "Officer, I would love to prove it to you, but my documents are at home in my safe. If you'd like to follow me to my house, I'd show them to you" I rarely carry a copy, and that's only when I go out of state, and it's a COPY. For out of state travel with an SBR, you need an approved 5320.20, so if you're planning a trip out of state and you want to take the rifle, submit it soon. They're good for a year. BigWaylon submits them en masse for approval.

I have had suppressors for 7+ years and never been asked for a stamp for proof.
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I don't think PHA would ever ask and it is private property anyhow, not a public club. The risk of LEO should end at the commute to and from home, in the event I was pulled over and searched. I would think an electronic copy on my phone would be adequate proof, but may just print one off and leave it in my car. I doubt I would be anywhere with the SBR and without my vehicle.
 
My ONLY concern with keeping documents on your phone would be letting them look at the phone is basically consent to search for whatever else... I've read articles saying an unlocked phone is fair game. And I'm not giving them an inch.
 
I printed 1/2 size stamps on thin paper and stuck them in my wallet.

Never had anyone ask for it. Shot my SBR in many many matches at PHA and elsewhere. Most people have no idea what it is, besides "AR".

From what I understand, that indoor Triangle Shooting Academy requires you show them a stamp for your stuff. I am not entirely sure if this is true.
If it is true, I personally wouldn't. I would just leave and likely never go back.
 
NKD said:
From what I understand, that indoor Triangle Shooting Academy requires you show them a stamp for your stuff. I am not entirely sure if this is true.
If it is true, I personally wouldn't. I would just leave and likely never go back.
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They require your name (to set up a profile in their computer if you don't already have a range card, which they will accept in lieu of your name) just to purchase a $3 bottle of gun oil. I walked away. And I have a range card there. I don't think I will go back.
 
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fieldgrade said:
They require your name (to set up a profile in their computer if you don't already have a range card, which they will accept in lieu of your name) just to purchase a $3 bottle of gun oil. I walked away. And I have a range card there. I don't think I will go back.
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Seriously? WTF.

No comment.
 
cjkgt97 said:
So, with the help of several of you fine people on the previous site, I was able to secure my stamp and assemble a kit to make an SBR-nikov. The builder will deliver it to me sometime next week.

I did some cursory reading at the time of application, regarding transporting the rifle etc. I know when you take it to the range, it requires a copy of the stamp to accompany the rifle. Has anyone ever determined, since the stamps are now issued electronically, if having a saved copy of the PDF on an accompanying electronic device is an acceptable way to produce the stamp?

Transport declarations are only required if you cross state lines, correct?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


I am confused. Did you file a form 4 or a form 1? If you filed a Form 1 then you should be building it not someone else. But to answer your question only the ATF really has the right to ask for the paperwork. Most LEOs do not know what to look for and range officers let power go to their head.
 
NKD said:
Seriously? WTF.

No comment.
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Really. Crazy isn't it. I discussed it with the counter clerk at some length. If you walk in off the street to buy the least little thing in their gun shop, they apparently have to set up a profile for you in their system to make the smallest cash purchase.

Someone might say to me, "But Fieldgrade, why do you care if they know you bought gun oil?" It's the principal of the thing. I don't have to give my name if I pay cash for ammo, beer, or liquor. It is a reminder that their is still a sliver of anonymity left. But not at TSA.
 
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cjkgt97 said:
I did some cursory reading at the time of application, regarding transporting the rifle etc. I know when you take it to the range, it requires a copy of the stamp to accompany the rifle. Has anyone ever determined, since the stamps are now issued electronically, if having a saved copy of the PDF on an accompanying electronic device is an acceptable way to produce the stamp?

Transport declarations are only required if you cross state lines, correct?
Click to expand...
We'll handle the easy one first. The 5320.20 (interstate transport form) is only for destinations out of state, and only for MG/DD/SBR/SSS...AOWs and suppressors are exempt. I phrase the answer that way because if you live close to the VA, TN or SC border, and have to cross into that state to reach your final designation in NC, then the Safe Passage provision of FOPA should cover you.

A lot of us (myself included) spout of the line from the form that says the form/stamp serves as your registration and must be provided to ATF upon request. It doesn't say immediately or on the spot, so that's why most will say not to carry them.

That being said, possession of any NFA item is illegal and considered possession of "a weapon of mass death and destruction" in NC. One of the exceptions to that (similar to how a CHP exempts you from following other various gun laws) is if they're properly registered (and the IRS code is referenced). So, having the form may save you a ride downtown. Granted, as mentioned above, most LEO don't have a clue what they're looking at. You can guide them through a real quick matching of firearm SN to the info on the form...or you can argue with them about it.

Showing them to an RSO is entirely up to you. Play by their rules, or go shoot somewhere else. I've yet to have been asked to show mine to anybody, and generally only do so as an educational chat (other shooters, not RSOs).

I carry paper copies of page 1 of all mine, printed in b&w, full-size, with two forms back-to-back on each sheet. The individual pages stuck in sleeve protectors and in a small binder. I have three copies of that binder, and one stays on my range bag. I also have my 5320.20 forms in that binder. Note: it's actually illegal to make a color copy of a revenue stamp, although I don't know anybody that's ever been charged.

I also keep PDF copies on my phone using iBooks. I can view thumbnails of a list, and they're available offline as well. Again, never showed them to anybody outside of a educational chat.
 
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TSConver said:
I am confused. Did you file a form 4 or a form 1? If you filed a Form 1 then you should be building it not someone else.
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Interested in hearing the OP's answer...
 
BigWaylon said:
I carry paper copies of page 1 of all mine, printed in b&w, full-size, with two forms back-to-back on each sheet. The individual pages stuck in sleeve protectors and in a small binder. I have three copies of that binder, and one stays on my range bag. I also have my 5320.20 forms in that binder. Note: it's actually illegal to make a color copy of a revenue stamp, although I don't know anybody that's ever been charged.
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2693D07300000578-2992107-image-m-72_1426195384927.jpg
 
cjkgt97 said:
My understanding is a Form 4 is for an existing/manufactured SBR. That was not the case here.
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It's to transfer an existing NFA item. But, you can have a SOT assemble one and transfer it to you. Most common example of that is if you want an AOW, as it costs $200 to make one but only $5 to transfer.

You said "the builder will deliver it to me", which indicates you're not making it...which is why it's being questioned along with a Form 1.
 
Like others, never been asked to show mine.
I have a picture on my phone of my stamp just in case, but never used it
 
HMP said:
Like others, never been asked to show mine.
I have a picture on my phone of my stamp just in case, but never used it
Click to expand...
Just the stamp? That's what I should do. :D

I really thought of doing something over the top. Saving all the PDFs online somewhere, and creating a QR code for each. Then, either engraving the QR code on each item, or have a thin piece of sheet metal with all the QR codes arranged and engraved...like a old school stone tablet.
 
For anybody with an iDevice...here's what the iBooks app looks like. I keep eForms, suppressor manuals, and all kinds of other stuff in it. They're available offline as well.

You can view it as a list or thumbnails.

4247538E-FE08-4423-A6AD-B9E950794FC1_zpsweit3pvx.jpg


F858445E-BC14-47E6-B251-D68556A99818_zpstnljkr5y.png
 
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BigWaylon said:
Just the stamp? That's what I should do. :D

I really thought of doing something over the top. Saving all the PDFs online somewhere, and creating a QR code for each. Then, either engraving the QR code on each item, or have a thin piece of sheet metal with all the QR codes arranged and engraved...like a old school stone tablet.
Click to expand...
Ha no, not just the stamp, but the whole paper
 
As an FYI, I'd say 98% of officers have no clue what the paperwork looks like to verify anything, however it's still good to have a copy whether electronic or paper copy.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
cjkgt97 said:
My understanding is a Form 4 is for an existing/manufactured SBR. That was not the case here.
Click to expand...

So is the assembler a licensed ffl with a sot?

A form 1 is for you to build it not someone else. If someone else built it on your form 1 then it is illegal and both of you are at risk.
 
NKD said:
I printed 1/2 size stamps on thin paper and stuck them in my wallet.

Never had anyone ask for it. Shot my SBR in many many matches at PHA and elsewhere. Most people have no idea what it is, besides "AR".

From what I understand, that indoor Triangle Shooting Academy requires you show them a stamp for your stuff. I am not entirely sure if this is true.
If it is true, I personally wouldn't. I would just leave and likely never go back.
Click to expand...

Yes, I got the anal probe there when I went to sight in the M11/9 and forgot the magazines at home. :D

He checked over the gun, checked the stamp, and then asked to see the ammo I would be shooting. That place blows.
 
I used to shoot at a range near Goldsboro and the RO asked to see my "permits" when I pulled out my suppressed 10.5" AR. I asked him why and he said that he wanted to make sure it's legal (or something to that effect). I told him I only need to show it to LEO/ATF if they ask. Not wanting a confrontation I said I'll go shoot somewhere else then. Got a few nasty comments from the old timer and went on my way. Their range their rules I guess.

The range shall remain nameless.
 
Yeah, the boss @ ENC is ex-LEO . I've gotten the anal probe when shooting my Macs. I hand them my binder...the guy flips thru the sheets ...sees a bunch of stamps and hands it back (usually never locating the Macs)
 
JohnFreeman said:
Yeah, the boss @ ENC is ex-LEO . I've gotten the anal probe when shooting my Macs. I hand them my binder...the guy flips thru the sheets ...sees a bunch of stamps and hands it back (usually never locating the Macs)
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That is surprising I have not been asked for forms when I arrived with several sbrs and cans over the last couple years. One of the RSO's did give me shite over shouldering my scorpion when on the pistol line one time.
 
I guess if you "cheeked" it it would be all good.
 
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