Scope mounting-am I doing something wrong?

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Meatcake
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I'm trying to mount an inexpensive scope (Barska) on a Winchester mdl 70 I intend to give to my nephew. I know it's not the best, but considering my other expenses getting out to give it to him, there will be no Leupold in his immediate future... Anyway, if I mount it properly and he treats it decently, it should get him through a year or two and out to 300 yards, maybe more.

That said, I'm a novice scope mounter. I put one on another rifle a while ago with good results, so I thought I could handle this. But I'm having a puzzling issue.

I've got the level on the receiver rails and one on the scope turret (see pic). I can get them both level, but, as I tighten the ring screws, they get out of alignment. I'm being very gentle, and tightening the screws gradually in an "X" pattern across each ring (4 screws per ring). I tried three times with similar dissatisfactory results.

Am I deforming the tube? I have a set of alignment rods, but they are 1" and this scope has a bigger tube, so no help there. Other ideas? Am I just going crosseyed?

Thanks for any clues...
Scope Mount Set Up.jpg
 
Are you using a torque wrench? A preset torque and purple thread locker are my best friends on final mountings.

Also did you consider his cheek weld in regards to eye relief before the final tightening? My kids first scope was set farther to the rear for him than I would use due to him being young and not having the same cheek weld.
 
Thanks Fubar,

I do have a torque screwdriver, but I haven' got to that stage yet. My 'plan' was to snug everything to immobility while verifying the level alignment, then pull a screw, dab some blue locktite on it, and snug it, repeat for the others, then torque 'em all to about 25 in-lbs. But I couldn't get that far w/o the levels wiggin' out on me.

I did consider the eye relief, but this kid is 30 and my height or taller, so I think he'll be ok!
 
Thanks Catfish. Do you know of a way to check that with undersized alignment rods, or some other method?
 
Fubar?

You were here just a moment ago... Plumb bob...
 
I like the ring alignment check idea. A rough check can done by measure the diagonal corners of the front and rear corners of the rings. The front left corner of the front ring to the rear right of the rear ring and front right to rear left ... like squaring up a frame. It is rough but can show a twist.

Here's an old school thing to try. Snug the rifle down level in your work station and level it with the level. Across the room drop a plumb bob and align the reticle vertically. Then try tightening the ring's screws as see if the reticle to plumb bob shifts.

Also what rings are you using?
 
I would leave them loose and let him find his own eye relief. First shot when he crowds that scope is gonna smack him.
he will then have not only a black eye, but a nice flinch to go with it.

Barska has terrible eye relief.
As such, it needs to be setup for the owner.
 
Semi-related..... are those rings the correct height?
 
Semi-related..... are those rings the correct height?
Define "correct."

I'm using rings that came with the scope; they seem to fit the scope very well. They are relatively high, though, as you might could see I the pic. They're see-through, and you can use the irons when the scope's mounted.

Barska has terrible eye relief.
As such, it needs to be setup for the owner.

Not a bad idea, but we'll be on limited time together I don't know that we'd be able to get it sighted in. Good input tho.
 
Define "correct."

I'm using rings that came with the scope; they seem to fit the scope very well. They are relatively high, though, as you might could see I the pic. They're see-through, and you can use the irons when the scope's mounted.

Correct for the shooter....I thought they looked kind of high and was making sure it wasn't a struggle to see through it or that the height wasn't compromising cheek weld.
 
If you are using "included" rings you might be chasing your tail. I lap my rings/mounts , even the high dollar ones, just to be sure they are trued up especially on higher mag applications. The Barska rings might be inducing some twisting especially the see thru high rider like you have pictured.
 
Thanks for all the input, guys. I also suspect the rings aren't aligned, but I can't check or tweak or lap 'em since I'm limited to 1" tubes at the moment.

I think I'll try a different set of rings if I can get 'em in time, just to see what that does. If I can't get it shootable before I go, I suppose a lesson in scope mounting technique (including personalized eye relief setting!) wouldn't be bad for him.

Hm. I may have to verify "functionality" with iron sights, just to be on the safe side. :)
 
I'm trying to mount an inexpensive scope (Barska) on a Winchester mdl 70 I intend to give to my nephew. I know it's not the best, but considering my other expenses getting out to give it to him, there will be no Leupold in his immediate future... Anyway, if I mount it properly and he treats it decently, it should get him through a year or two and out to 300 yards, maybe more.

That said, I'm a novice scope mounter. I put one on another rifle a while ago with good results, so I thought I could handle this. But I'm having a puzzling issue.

I've got the level on the receiver rails and one on the scope turret (see pic). I can get them both level, but, as I tighten the ring screws, they get out of alignment. I'm being very gentle, and tightening the screws gradually in an "X" pattern across each ring (4 screws per ring). I tried three times with similar dissatisfactory results.

Am I deforming the tube? I have a set of alignment rods, but they are 1" and this scope has a bigger tube, so no help there. Other ideas? Am I just going crosseyed?

Thanks for any clues...
View attachment 2646


Concerning scope rails, there are TWO major styles, Weaver & Picatinny. It appears you are using a Weaver style.

The mounting slot size is different between the two, as follows,

Weaver slot is about .150" & Picatinny is about .200".

When using a Weaver style base It is VERY possible to think scope rings properly seat FLAT when in fact they may not.

An easy way to check for fit is to hold the assembly to light and look for light between the mating surfaces, there should be NONE.
If there is light showing this means the recoil lug on the ring is not fully seating in the Weaver slot.

How to fix?
Jig it in a mill and open the slot up , or, use a file on the rear slot surface and open it up.
 
IMHO.... Ditch the "see through" rings as well as the base and go with either a one or two piece base and a set of the best rings you can afford. Even when I'm making a "lightweight" rifle I don't cheat on the base and rings and only use steel in this area.
My outlook on rings and bases is as follows, it's the ONLY thing that mates the rifle and scope together and if it isn't right the gun will never shoot to any potential.
 
When using a Weaver style base It is VERY possible to think scope rings properly seat FLAT when in fact they may not.
I actually thought to check this! Sometimes I surprise myself...

My outlook on rings and bases is as follows, it's the ONLY thing that mates the rifle and scope together and if it isn't right the gun will never shoot to any potential.

I'm starting to grok the wisdom of this.

I've managed to get the scope mounted & level/aligned--I think I may have it seated too far back and the front ring was catching the base of the bell. I also switched the rings around, front to back. Either the irregularities are now "in sequence" or I didn't have something seated properly the first few tries.

The tube diameter measures 1.18" I'll be looking for a better set of rings.
 
"The tube diameter measures 1.18" I'll be looking for a better set of rings."

That makes it a 1" scope for which you indicated you had alignment rods, use them. Of course if you don't have the lapping equipment it may only frustrate you more knowing it's out of alignment but can't do anything about it.....
You mention "no Leupold in his future but their rings and bases are an excellent product and not really that expensive. As for a mid quality scope, look at the Nikon series with BDC reticle.....
 
"The tube diameter measures 1.18" I'll be looking for a better set of rings."

That makes it a 1" scope for which you indicated you had alignment rods, use them. Of course if you don't have the lapping equipment it may only frustrate you more knowing it's out of alignment but can't do anything about it.....
You mention "no Leupold in his future but their rings and bases are an excellent product and not really that expensive. As for a mid quality scope, look at the Nikon series with BDC reticle.....

I should have translated my measurements: it's a 30mm scope tube. I discovered this when I went to clamp the 1" alignment rods in and they wobbled... then measured the tube. I've been searching for rings online to get a feel for what's out there in 30mm.
 
If you're close to Hickory, I have a Wheeler kit to lap the rings. You'd be amazed at how far out they usually are.

Thanks for the offer! I have a Wheeler kit, but mine only came with 1" alignment & lapping rods.

If you now inform me that the bar can be used with both 1" and 30mm rings, I am fully prepared to feel foolish. Wouldn't be the first time.

However, I'm now outta time, so the plan is changing. The scope appears to be mounted correctly, but I had to leave before I got to test fire it. New plan is to sight it in with the laser when we get together and march it out gradually to see how it works. If it's off, we'll track down a local gunsmith/shop and fork out the $$ for them to adjust it to his eyeballs and situation.
 
The 1" bar can only be used with 1" rings but my kit has both.
Sounds like you have a handle on it though. Good luck.
 
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